What's new

Pakistan’s lessons from India

ajtr

BANNED
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
9,357
Reaction score
0
Pakistan’s lessons from India

Looking at India will be of enormous help for fashioning Pakistan’s political order. Not to imply that Pakistan should follow what India is doing, but there are some lessons from what happened to India’s political system as it evolved.
As Pakistan stumbled from one political crisis to another, many looked with envy at what the Indians had achieved — they managed to create a political system that worked reasonably well for a country much more diverse than Pakistan. That happened for basically two reasons. The first was leadership continuity during the country’s formative years. From 1947 to 1964, India was governed essentially by one man: former prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru. He was not only one of the founding fathers of India but was also a committed democrat. The second reason for India’s more robust political development was that unlike the Pakistan Muslim League (PML), the Congress Party in India did not lose its raison d’être the moment the country won independence.
The PML was a one-issue party. As the All-India Muslim League, its predecessor, it had only one mission: the establishment of a separate homeland for the Muslims of British India. Once that was achieved, the party failed to redefine itself. It floundered. The Congress Party had a more ambitious political agenda: to end colonial rule, keep India united and create a political, social and economic system that would improve the well-being of the common Indian citizen. The two major leaders of the pre-independence India had two very different ideologies for achieving the third objective. MK Gandhi wanted to do it by returning India to its traditions in which the citizen’s welfare was based on the work of small communities, essentially villages or “little republics”. Nehru, on the other hand, wanted to bring European socialism into India. The Soviet Union became his model as he began to shape public economic policies.
The Congress continued to dominate the political system for half a century but then, because of the way the party itself was governed, a number of regional parties emerged to challenge it. The Indian system developed and, as pointed out by Pratap Bahnu Mehta in a recent Foreign Affairs article, “Indian politicians and bureaucrats all shared four basic management principles — vertical accountability, wide discretion, secrecy and centralisation — all of which made for a government that was representative but not responsive”. The two principles that mattered most were the fact that leaders at all levels of the system looked up to the person at the very top. Most of the time, the top person was the prime minister. The second principle was centralisation. The party was governed from New Delhi.
Several similarities exist between the way the two mainstream political parties are governed in Pakistan and the governance of India’s Congress party. Both the PPP and the PML-N are dominated by a single leader who commands total loyalty and runs a highly centralised organisation. As a result, both have left space for the regional parties to gain power in some parts of the country. However, in Pakistan, there is still space between national and regional parties that can be occupied by a relatively new national organisation. The Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf has gained some traction as the citizens have lost some confidence in the established parties.
To the four principles mentioned by Pratap Mehta as the bases on which the Indian system was built, a fifth needs to be added, particularly on the economic side. The Indian system, to a large extent, is self-correcting. This is because for endurance, it must respond to the pressure by the citizenry for change. This affects both the economic and political components of the system. But the change comes after a lag; it took many years before the government stepped out of the way of the private sector. Nehru had placed the state on the commanding heights of the economy which produced the “Hindu rate of growth” for four decades. This experience taught the policymakers that excessive intervention by the state, as practised during the Nehru years, resulted in the economy growing at a rate much lower than its potential.
What does the Indian experience tell us about Pakistan’s likely political development and how it might affect our economy? I will take up this question next week.
 
Have you been following Pakistani Politics?
It has matured enormously lately. We finally have a real party that unites the people and is presenting a plan for the country.
India did well with it's country, but our problems are different then yours. So we need to find our own solutions.
 
Have you been following Pakistani Politics?
It has matured enormously lately. We finally have a real party that unites the people and is presenting a plan for the country.
India did well with it's country, but our problems are different then yours. So we need to find our own solutions.
Thanks to PPP and president zardari.Infact i think he gonna be first civilian elected president who will complete his full term.Despite of his corruption he is a survivor against all odds.
 
good if Pak can have civlian governments. then peace with india is not far off.
next step is to put army and mullahs in their places.
 
Thanks to PPP and president zardari.Infact i think he gonna be first civilian elected president who will complete his full term.Despite of his corruption he is a survivor against all odds.

Yes, thanks to PPP who broke all records of bad governance.
Like they say, you have to hit rock bottom before you can rise.
PPP is our rock bottom.
They will be the first civilian elected government to finish their term, and that means they cannot hide behind any excuses. They will face the population on election day on what they have done, not what they could have done if given the full term.

Also the biggest reason he survived is because our COAS realized that the people had a new hope in PTI and would not welcome an army takeover. Where as in the past, people welcomed an army takeover due to lack of alternatives.

good if Pak can have civlian governments. then peace with india is not far off.
next step is to put army and mullahs in their places.

And India needs to rein in their extreme rightists such as the RSS.
 
Yes, thanks to PPP who broke all records of bad governance.
Like they say, you have to hit rock bottom before you can rise.
PPP is our rock bottom.
They will be the first civilian elected government to finish their term, and that means they cannot hide behind any excuses. They will face the population on election day on what they have done, not what they could have done if given the full term.

Also the biggest reason he survived is because our COAS realized that the people had a new hope in PTI and would not welcome an army takeover. Where as in the past, people welcomed an army takeover due to lack of alternatives.



And India needs to rein in their extreme rightists such as the RSS.

you should update your knowledge, RSS and indian right have very less influnence in India. in fact i think they should step up more to balance out the extreme left.
 
Have you been following Pakistani Politics?
It has matured enormously lately. We finally have a real party that unites the people and is presenting a plan for the country.
India did well with it's country, but our problems are different then yours. So we need to find our own solutions.

I have developed a cetain degree of faith over Imran Khan.What say thee?
 
What is the election commission like in Pakistan? I guess this will be the first time they will be holding an election after a full term. Any specific roadmap or processes in place to ensure it goes out smoothly? Also, do you have the cool off periods before elections step in?
 
Pakistan’s lessons from India

Looking at India will be of enormous help for fashioning Pakistan’s political order. Not to imply that Pakistan should follow what India is doing, but there are some lessons from what happened to India’s political system as it evolved..


Let me first state at the get go that my hats of to Indian people for "trusting" their political system however flawed it has been.

With due respect, I beg to differ and say that OP makes a HUGE mistake when it says that Pakistan should do what India has done.

Why do I disagree with OP on this?

Well Indian political system is based on a malformed British-Indian political model that has very little resemblance to a true British democracy.

Instead British Indian system encourages feudal parties where most of the political parties become jagir of the family who took the lead role in the beginning. Thus most of the parties in India, BDesh, and Pakistan are personal fiefdoms and not true democratic parties.

thus the parties are given to sons and daughters as if they are a cheap piece of property or worse a diseased street walker.

No one and I mean no one within the party membership ever questions the "supreme" leader's stranglehold on the party. They remain one man or one woman show until the supreme leader dies or gets killed. Then a daughter or a son takes over and the process goes on an on.

This system a dead horse if you care for a moment to consider the true democratic ideals.

And as they say you can beat a dead horse for 100 years, it will remain "dead" no matter how much lashing you give.


Therefore when Pakistani politicians tried to ape the Indian system back in the 1940s and 50s, the system failed and failed miserably.

Considering the fragile situation in Pakistan, when army kicked these political mafioso, people took sigh of relief. However none of the intellectuals in Pakistan at least not the significant ones, ever tried to devise a true Pakistani system.

So we give chance to politicians every 10 years, falsely expecting that the dead horses will walk. And when they do not, we cry for the military to come back.

People say the system works for India, then why not Pakistan.

Well I don't want to denigrate my Indian friends, but Indian love to follow any system they get. Mogal gave them the system, they accepted it, British gave them the system, they accepted it. Single party Congress ruled for decades and Indians remained largely docile. This would have never worked in Pakistan. Never ever.

Why? because central Indians are like Chinese, they don't make much noise when a strong authority is in place. there are many reasons for this behavior, but perhaps one thing summarizes it. Indians and Chinese are "civilized" and they don't go too much against authority. How else vast regions and millions of Indians were ruled by British using only 3500 goras?

Pakistan being a "border" region has not been "civilized" and "Mellowed" and thus will not be governed by an Indian style party system. People will not respect it, and given a chance will shred it to pieces.

Sure some in Pakistan say that Khalifa Bhutto and his family could not deliver, so now we must have Khalifa Imran. But I tell you what, 2 years in Khalifa Imran's rule, the same people will be crying to get rid of him.


So you all may say that if British-Indian system won't work for Pak, then what?

Well you guys have to wait for part II of this essay.


Thank you.
 
^^^ Much of the things you said applies to afganistan, not pakistan. The region of pakistan was also rules by mughals, british sikhs and afgans for years and they just accepted their fate.

The reason is, people of the region now known as pakistan have been civilized most of the time, even now.
 
^^^ Much of the things you said applies to afganistan, not pakistan. The region of pakistan was also rules by mughals, british sikhs and afgans for years and they just accepted their fate.

The reason is, people of the region now known as pakistan have been civilized most of the time, even now.

This is only true for Eastern parts of Pakistani Punjab.

However the impact of this "tamed" area only lasted for a couple of decades. And now the whole of Pakistan is different from what it was in 50s and 60s.

This is why any attempt to use Indian style will fail.

In fact, Indian style system may even fail in India given few more decades. How long people will accept the rule of one family?
 
Indians do not accept rule by one family. Indians love family traditions. If a father is good person, the goodwill is automatically transferred to the son.
The congress tried to win without gandhi in 90s, they could not, and begged sonia to join.
Same is true for all other political party, and even MLAs and MPs.
Its not that one party is ruling us by force, it is that many Indians still vote because of that last name.
Most political parties know this, if a sitting MP dies, they will give ticket to his wife/son/daughter so that they get the sympathy vote.

Majority of young MPs in parliament (of all parties, including regional ones) belong to political family.
This is ruining the democratic system.

Your idea of most Indians being pacifist and hence tolerate one family needs revisit.

I need to also point out the defence (which most political families use): if a businessman's son can be businessman, an actor's son can be actor, why not politician's son..
It is parent's job to give a helping hand to their kids and help in their career, what is wrong in that. Nobody is forcing people to vote our sons/daughters?
 

Latest posts

Military Forum Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom