Pakistan needs to ban forced conversions of non-Muslims : advocacy group tells U.S Congress

[KingMamba]

LA IKRAHA FI-D-DEEN" . (Quran, Surah Al-Baqarah, Ayat 256)
Meaning: There is no compulsion in Religion (Islam)

The meaning of this is that there is no concept of forced conversion in islam. If anyone believe otherwise, the person is clearly disregarding Quran.

Having said this, this all issue is raised by so called NGOs. About 2 years ago some hindu girls from Sindh love married muslim men and converted to islam. Their parents with the support of these NGOs went to courts. The cases went on even to High courts. The girls were given every opportunity to testify that have they been forced to convert and marriage? Even the Judge take them to his Chamber to ask personally if they have any pressure on them to testify other wise?

But every time the girls testimony was that they have converted and married with their own will and no pressure what so ever is on them.

Now lets say a person is alleged to be converted to other religion, who will the judge ask to tell that if its true?
Off course that man himself. Can anyone else testify for him there?

So please spare us from this bullshit. Thanks

There was some Hindu girl from some influential Hindu family in Sindh who went to a Sufi Dargah and converted. The family accused the sufi shrine keepers of forcing her to convert lol. I think it was the same case you are talking about actually.

So it is a missionary group...



Which maniac 1st converts them to Muslim, marries them and then sells his bride? or forces her to prostitution?

Why convert her to make her a prostitute? What now even low- life have a conscience of not wanting a Christian prostitute? She must be halal? WTH

Doesnt make sense at all! Did anyone read this bit at all?

They just need some masala for the gullible masses, convert a girl to force her into prostitution how stupid can one be.

 

[Armstrong]

There was some Hindu girl from some influential Hindu family in Sindh who went to a Sufi Dargah and converted. The family accused the sufi shrine keepers of forcing her to convert lol. I think it was the
same case you are talking about actually.

Yaar it is detestable if it does happen and no amount of condemnation can be enough but this is a domestic issue of Pakistan - Why does your Congress feels the need to indulge in matters that do not concern them ? One doesn't see the Pakistani Parliament hosting advocacy groups talking about the Rights of the Native Americans ?

 

[KingMamba]

Yaar it is detestable if it does happen and no amount of condemnation can be enough but this is a domestic issue of Pakistan - Why does your Congress feels the need to indulge in matters that do not concern them ? One doesn't see the Pakistani Parliament hosting advocacy groups talking about the Rights of the Native Americans ?

It is just right wingers, anyway can bring up anything to talk about in front of Congress but 99% of the stuff they talk about never gets put through in a motion. This advocacy group is just mad that Christians are converting to Islam, if a non Muslim converts to Islam it was forced but these same groups will funnel money to NGOs who will then go to poor parts of third world countries like in Pakistan, India and even China and offer people cash incentives to become Christian.

 

[Dubious]

We have a notable Christian community in the media/ showbiz who dont seem to voice out for their community...Wonder why? Wonder how the converting mob missed them....



Pakistani Christian community is quite vibrant and active since independence in 1947. They have made valuable contributions in all walks of life especially in the field of education, health and nursing. Justice Cornelius, F.C. Chaudhary (Photographer), Cecil Chaudhary (Army officer), Wallis Mathias (Cricketer) are few prominent names in different fields. Pakistani Christian community has also made valuable contributions in the field of arts and showbiz. On the event of Christmas lets acknowledge and remember some of the prominent Pakistani Christians artists

Saleem Raza: was a famous playback singer of 1950′s and 60′s. Famous Naat ‘Shah-e-Madina’ is in his voice. Saleem Raza hailed from a rural area ‘Clarkabad’ near Nankana Saheb, Punjab. He was the leading voice in Pakistani films before Ahmed Rushdi till mid sixties. His famous songs are ‘Ae Dil kisi ki yaad mein hota hai beqarar kyon’, ‘Yaaron mujhey muaf rakho mein nashay mein hoon’, ‘Jaane Baharan Rashke Chaman’, ‘Yeh Naaz Yeh Andaaz Yeh jadu yeh adayen’. Saleem Raza shifted to Canada in 1970′s where he passed away in 1983.

Sunny Benjamin (SB) John: is a singer from Karachi. He was quite famous for his song ‘Tu jo nahin hai to kucch bhi nahin hai yeh maana kay mehfil jawan hai haseen hai’. This song was also copied by India. He also sung songs on radio and other films.

Irene Parveen: was quite famous female voice of 1960′s. She sung many memorable songs like ‘Tumhi ho mehboob meray mein kyon naa tumhain pyar karon’. Irene shifted to London and now lives there with her family.

A. Nayyer: Arthur Nayyer famous as A. Nayyer appeared on the scene in 1970′s. He was a famous singer of 1970′s and 80′s and gave us many memorable songs. A. Nayyer belongs from Lahore where he still resides.

Benjamin Sisters: were three sisters who were famous singers in 1980′s. Nareesa Victor, Shabana Victor and Beena Victor were daughters of Benjamin Victor and sung many songs on television throughout 1980′s and 90′s. They belong to Karachi.

Rachel Gill: is one of the leading female models of our country.

Suneeta Marshall (born 1982) is a Pakistani model and television actress.

Nadia Malik: was a famous model. She is daughter of Dr. Alexandar John Malik, bishop of Pakistan. Nadia married fellow theater artist Daniyal who is Muslim. She now lives in Scotland

Ayesha Aalam: is a famous artist and host. She was married to Brian O’ Connel of Junoon Band. Ayesha lives in Karachi.

Jia Ali was born in 1967 in a Christian family in Lahore, Punjab

 

[cyphercide]

So it is a missionary group...

Probably. The webpage doesn't list any affiliations but it's funny to have a Pakistani member claim US missionaries will not stand for it.

Which maniac 1st converts them to Muslim, marries them and then sells his bride? or forces her to prostitution?

Why convert her to make her a prostitute? What now even low- life have a conscience of not wanting a Christian prostitute? She must be halal? WTH

Doesnt make sense at all! Did anyone read this bit at all?

Erm...are you asking me or was that supposed to be a general question? I guess that's the rough estimate of what happens to the Christian "bride" as per their findings.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

So it is a missionary group...



Which maniac 1st converts them to Muslim, marries them and then sells his bride? or forces her to prostitution?

Why convert her to make her a prostitute? What now even low- life have a conscience of not wanting a Christian prostitute? She must be halal? WTH

Doesnt make sense at all! Did anyone read this bit at all?

Yaar i remembered a case that was i think back in 1997-98. In Lahore a muslim girl affair with a Qadiani boy. The girl father went to the court with similar complain that a muslim girl cant be married to a non muslim man. Incidentally, back then the same kindda NGOs were favoring in the name of women rights and freedom that girl. Asma Jahangir was the lawyer of that couple. During the course of the case an incident happened, which Asma Jahangir is master of. Like Hussain Haqqani that couple US immigration was arranged and with in no time they were away.

I wonder why women rights groups are silent when these girls marry muslim men with their own will.

 

[Dubious]

Probably. The webpage doesn't list any affiliations but it's funny to have a Pakistani member claim US missionaries will not stand for it.

Erm...are you asking me or was that supposed to be a general question? I guess that's the rough estimate of what happens to the Christian "bride" as per their findings.

Well for the sake of argument lets says she was forced convert...Now she is a Muslim...Even then make her a prostitute? Why go through all the court cases to get a Christian to convert, forcefully, marry her (hereby being her captivator) then selling her (now a Muslim)

Doesnt seem like anything even the lowest living Muslim would do or go through!

 

[KingMamba]

Yaar i remembered a case that was i think back in 1997-98. In Lahore a muslim girl affair with a Qadiani boy. The girl father went to the court with similar complain that a muslim girl cant be married to a non muslim man. Incidentally, back then the same kindda NGOs were favoring in the name of women rights and freedom that girl. Asma Jahangir was the lawyer of that couple. During the course of the case an incident happened, which Asma Jahangir is master of. Like Hussain Haqqani that couple US immigration was arranged and with in no time they were away.

I wonder why women rights groups are silent when these girls marry muslim men with their own will.

Qadianis used to be given preferential treatment when it came to visas in Britain and in US, many Pakistanis here used to openly joke that if you want your family member to come to US tell them to say they are Qadiani and they will get a free ride. This is no longer the case though.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Y

We have a notable Christian community in the media/ showbiz who dont seem to voice out for their community...Wonder why? Wonder how the converting mob missed them....



Pakistani Christian community is quite vibrant and active since independence in 1947. They have made valuable contributions in all walks of life especially in the field of education, health and nursing. Justice Cornelius, F.C. Chaudhary (Photographer), Cecil Chaudhary (Army officer), Wallis Mathias (Cricketer) are few prominent names in different fields. Pakistani Christian community has also made valuable contributions in the field of arts and showbiz. On the event of Christmas lets acknowledge and remember some of the prominent Pakistani Christians artists

Saleem Raza: was a famous playback singer of 1950′s and 60′s. Famous Naat ‘Shah-e-Madina’ is in his voice. Saleem Raza hailed from a rural area ‘Clarkabad’ near Nankana Saheb, Punjab. He was the leading voice in Pakistani films before Ahmed Rushdi till mid sixties. His famous songs are ‘Ae Dil kisi ki yaad mein hota hai beqarar kyon’, ‘Yaaron mujhey muaf rakho mein nashay mein hoon’, ‘Jaane Baharan Rashke Chaman’, ‘Yeh Naaz Yeh Andaaz Yeh jadu yeh adayen’. Saleem Raza shifted to Canada in 1970′s where he passed away in 1983.

Sunny Benjamin (SB) John: is a singer from Karachi. He was quite famous for his song ‘Tu jo nahin hai to kucch bhi nahin hai yeh maana kay mehfil jawan hai haseen hai’. This song was also copied by India. He also sung songs on radio and other films.

Irene Parveen: was quite famous female voice of 1960′s. She sung many memorable songs like ‘Tumhi ho mehboob meray mein kyon naa tumhain pyar karon’. Irene shifted to London and now lives there with her family.

A. Nayyer: Arthur Nayyer famous as A. Nayyer appeared on the scene in 1970′s. He was a famous singer of 1970′s and 80′s and gave us many memorable songs. A. Nayyer belongs from Lahore where he still resides.

Benjamin Sisters: were three sisters who were famous singers in 1980′s. Nareesa Victor, Shabana Victor and Beena Victor were daughters of Benjamin Victor and sung many songs on television throughout 1980′s and 90′s. They belong to Karachi.

Rachel Gill: is one of the leading female models of our country.

Suneeta Marshall (born 1982) is a Pakistani model and television actress.

Nadia Malik: was a famous model. She is daughter of Dr. Alexandar John Malik, bishop of Pakistan. Nadia married fellow theater artist Daniyal who is Muslim. She now lives in Scotland

Ayesha Aalam: is a famous artist and host. She was married to Brian O’ Connel of Junoon Band. Ayesha lives in Karachi.

Jia Ali was born in 1967 in a Christian family in Lahore, Punjab

You forget "Shabnam"

 

[Dubious]

Y

You forget "Shabnam"

I picked it from a website...Dont even know half of them

 

[cyphercide]

Well for the sake of argument lets says she was forced convert...Now she is a Muslim...Even then make her a prostitute? Why go through all the court cases to get a Christian to convert, forcefully, marry her (hereby being her captivator) then selling her (now a Muslim)

Doesnt seem like anything even the lowest living Muslim would do or go through!

For sake of supposition, let's say you're completely right about that. That said, prostitution happens to be just one rough estimate. Why overlook the rest? Why overlook the entire issue of forced conversions just because you find an element of the report ridiculous? The statement you're choosing to harp about is itself a speculation:

Once in the custody of the abductor, the victim girl may be subjected to sexual violence, rape, forced prostitution, human trafficking and sale, or other domestic abuse.

Maybe they exaggerated for effect and fishing dollars out of American pockets or maybe there's an element of truth behind the claims. That doesn't take anything away from the central problem.

 

[Dubious]

For sake of supposition, let's say you're completely right about that. That said, prostitution happens to be just one rough estimate. Why overlook the rest? Why overlook the complete issue of forced conversions just because you find an element of the report ridiculous? The statement you're choosing to harp about is itself a speculation:

Because these are sensitive issues
If even 1 point can be scrutinized how sure are we the rest of the report is not equally solid?

We all condemn forced conversion...did you miss all the posts that do condemn it...But bring solid proof not a made up report...If that were the case anyone would be making reports about anything and demanding actions..

Say this was taken seriously, you cant barge in and stop a marriage because some group claims you will be forced to prostitution next! What if that group had made up the whole report? Scrutinizing is important! Esp when details are added just to play emotions...

Do you know how crazy some religious groups (both Muslims and non Muslims) get due to fake reports?

 

[cyphercide]

Because these are sensitive issues
If even 1 point can be scrutinized how sure are we the rest of the report is not equally solid?

We all condemn forced conversion...did you miss all the posts that do condemn it...But bring solid proof not a made up report...If that were the case anyone would be making reports about anything and demanding actions..

Say this was taken seriously, you cant barge in and stop a marriage because some group claims you will be forced to prostitution next! What if that group had made up the whole report? Scrutinizing is important! Esp when details are added just to play emotions...

Do you know how crazy some religious groups (both Muslims and non Muslims) get due to fake reports?

Honestly speaking, I did miss reading many posts because I was posting on multiple threads. That said, I really don't think that the point behind such organizations is to barge into and stop Pakistani weddings. Sure, scrutinizing is important but it shouldn't lead to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis see forced conversions as reprehensible, that's good on them.

 

[Dubious]

Honestly speaking, I did miss reading many posts because I was posting on multiple threads. That said, I really don't think that the point behind such organizations is to barge into and stop Pakistani weddings. Sure, scrutinizing is important but it shouldn't lead to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis see forced conversions as reprehensible, that's good on them.

Sure we have dirty laundry but majority of us consider our minorities as Pakistanis...and would think twice before harming them...

There are churches which are active and a handful Pakistani Muslims in their lifetime have actually visited at least one out of mere curiosity with a friend or a cousin. Esp on Christmas...It causes more stress when lies (prostitution) are brought in to defend that which may or may not be happening...this eventually leads to misunderstanding and religious uproars (more on protest and strikes) hence I said it is worth scrutinizing if such incidents do take place or they were intensified to attract, funds/ uproars or damage to the image of Pakistan.

However if this be true then yes many will stand up against it!

 

[Armstrong]

I picked it from a website...Dont even know half of them

You don't ?

Thats it I'm gonna ask the people at Universal Studios to ban your entry till you learn more about Pakistan and Pakistanis !