Pakistan may study other fighter options as US asks Pakistan to make full payment for F-16 purchase

[Wolf]

with F 16s, this will keep on rolling unfortunately

Are you sure we are in 21st century?? Haven't you seen open beheadings of people including beheading of Indian soldiers at LOC.

and have you not seen whining of indian populace over just a concert by Pakistanis in india. Not allowing indian muslims to eat beef. sending in ur agents like kalbhushan yadev to finance terrorism in Pakistan. Even if you are at the spot when your agents are caught red handed you will say its false coz u have been programmed this way to not accept truth but only what is told to you.

 

[Falcon26]

I'm interested in your views on the matter.

I think it's too early to tell. The US understands the strategic value of maintaining leverage with Pakistan. Even during this hearing in Congress the word "leverage" with Pakistan was used by both sides. The administration obviously is interested in supporting Pakustan. The White House will continue to support Pakistan as long as US interests Afghanistan don't change.

Hopefully the PAF will now start to seriously consider EuroFighters and move away from F-16s.

 

[New World]

PAF evidently can't even afford 8 F-16 Fighters at full price. How are they going to buy EuroFighters, an even more expensive aircraft? Nobody in Europe is going to give them military aid either.

for your information mr.
we are buying
1. 8 subs worth of 4-5 billions.
2. 15 ah-1z vipers worth of 950 millions.
3. 4 mi-35 worth of 200+ million
4. 4 F-22p frigates worth of 800 million.
5. 6 FAC worth of 100+ millions.

and we are producing 16 JF-17 yearly and are to be increased to 24 JF-17 a year from next year..

. i wish they put another pressler like restriction on us. that would be the last nail in the coffin for having a meaningful relationship with Pakistan.

there is no need of new pressler amendment, if they continue their same altitude..

 

[Falcon26]

PAF evidently can't even afford 8 F-16 Fighters at full price. How are they going to buy EuroFighters, an even more expensive aircraft? Nobody in Europe is going to give them military aid either.

That's simplistic thinking. Pakistan can more than pay for the 8 F-16s but why should it pay out of pocket when funds are available for it to use the same way similar funds are available for Egypt and Israel? The US congress through the Kerry-Luger bill allocated an annual sum of money for Pakistan's security & economic development. Pakistan is simply asking for what the US lawmakers themselves have signed.

The Pakistani nuclear program, the mirages, Agosta 90B submarines and tons of other high end Pakistani weapons were procured with Pakistani funds. If you think similar funds can't be found for EuroFighters or whatever 4.5 generation fighter plan Pakistan chooses, then you must be living under a rock.

 

[Photon]

That's simplistic thinking. Pakistan can more than pay for the 8 F-16s but why should it pay out of pocket when funds are available for it to use the same way similar funds are available for Egypt and Israel? The US congress through the Kerry-Luger bill allocated an annual sum of money for Pakistan's security & economic development. Pakistan is simply asking for what the US lawmakers themselves have signed.

The Pakistani nuclear program, the mirages, Agosta 90B submarines and tons of other high end Pakistani weapons were procured with Pakistani funds. If you think similar funds can't be found for EuroFighters or whatever 4.5 generation fighter plan Pakistan chooses, then you must be living under a rock.

Question is, why would any self respecting nation endure such taunts form law makers of the aid giving nation, if it could pay for it from their own pockets.

Afterall no body, not even the world's richest nation and the sole super power taunts a paying customer.

 

[Paksanity]

PAF evidently can't even afford 8 F-16 Fighters at full price. How are they going to buy EuroFighters, an even more expensive aircraft? Nobody in Europe is going to give them military aid either.

This can not be your problem, right?

@Falcon26
True, it is too early to call. I see comments of US lawmakers in the backdrop of domestic politics. War in Afghanistan has not gone very well for US. Recent gains of Taliban reflects poorly on US efforts as they are exiting. Then is this widespread voter sentiment that US gives aid in billions while Americans are struggling with their prosperity. Trump has tapped into this sentiment nicely and to me it appears lawmakers are doing the same, sort of. Regretfully, some in US has been quick to point fingers at Pakistan while entirely forgetting price we have paid for standing with US. Pakistan became target of terrorism after it chose to stand with US.

US lawmakers are forgetting one more thing. Last hasty exit by US in 80s weigh heavily on our memories. Afghanistan descended into chaos and we were left to deal with the mess. We can not possibly sit idle when things are moving in even worst direction. TTP lives in Afghanistan, India has spread her tentacles in Afghanistan, Balochistan insurgency has sanctuary in Afghanistan. We can not possible ignore that at the moment only party in Afghanistan that we can trust are the US. What happens when US leaves? Pakistan will be left high and dry. Again. We do not have the option to leave the region. We have to live next door for millions of years.

Afghan Taliban are no friends of Pakistan. All we can offer is a conduit to make talks possible. Cut this off and they are left to their devices. Unfortunately Afghans don't seem to be able to finish them off. And time is running out for everyone. More area they capture, more arrogant they will get making it harder and harder to negotiate with them on reasonable terms. US lawmakers need to look at the situation in entirety. Long term US interests are at stake. Hurling loose comments against Pakistan will only strengthen anti Americanism in Pakistan making it harder and harder for Pakistani officials to further combined US-PAK interests in the region.

 

[Falcon26]

Question is, why would any self respecting nation endure such taunts form law makers of the aid giving nation, if it could pay for it from their own pockets.

Afterall no body, not even the world's richest nation and the sole super power taunts a paying customer.

Again, that's a simplistic assertion. This is not an exchange between individuals with honor and reputation at stake. These are entanglements between states. The lawmakers have every right to question since the money is the tax of their constituencies, but as we saw the with 8 F-16s, the other lawmakers that support the deal outweight the other camp. The White House and the military industrial complex supports it as well.

If you remember, India paid billions to get Apache helicopters from the US. Pakistan paid ZERO for similar equipment and got 15 pieces of the latest Cobras that no country outside the US operate. So why should Pakistan throw temper tantrum & walk away from free gifts? Pakistan is making India spend billions for what it gets for free. This serves an an important strategic objective. The Indians know this which is why they are employing lobbyists and every trick under the sun to place hurdles which have failed so far.

Important to remember, similar stunts even happen with Israel & Egypt and will continue to happen.

In terms of self-respect, the fact that the world's sole super power over depends on Pakistan for the success of critical strategic objectives says otherwise.

This can not be your problem, right?

@Falcon26
True, it is too early to call. I see comments of US lawmakers in the backdrop of domestic politics. War in Afghanistan has not gone very well for US. Recent gains of Taliban reflects poorly on US efforts as they are exiting. Then is this widespread voter sentiment that US gives aid in billions while Americans are struggling with their prosperity. Trump has tapped into this sentiment nicely and to me it appears lawmakers are doing the same, sort of. Regretfully, some in US has been quick to point fingers at Pakistan while entirely forgetting price we have paid for standing with US. Pakistan became target of terrorism after it chose to stand with US.

US lawmakers are forgetting one more thing. Last hasty exit by US in 80s weigh heavily on our memories. Afghanistan descended into chaos and we were left to deal with the mess. We can not possibly sit idle when things are moving in even worst direction. TTP lives in Afghanistan, India has spread her tentacles in Afghanistan, Balochistan insurgency has sanctuary in Afghanistan. We can not possible ignore that at the moment only party in Afghanistan that we can trust are the US. What happens when US leaves? Pakistan will be left high and dry. Again. We do not have the option to leave the region. We have to live next door for millions of years.

Afghan Taliban are no friends of Pakistan. All we can offer is a conduit to make talks possible. Cut this off and they are left to their devices. Unfortunately Afghans don't seem to be able to finish them off. And time is running out for everyone. More area they capture, more arrogant they will get making it harder and harder to negotiate with them on reasonable terms. US lawmakers need to look at the situation in entirety. Long term US interests are at stake. Hurling loose comments against Pakistan will only strengthen anti Americanism in Pakistan making it harder and harder for Pakistani officials to further combined US-PAK interests in the region.

Absolutely. Even the 9/11 commission blamed raise of Al Qaida and Taliban for the US disengagement from Pakistan following the Soviet collapse.

The US needs Pakiatan as much (if not more) than Pakistan needs the US. People always forget this. The White House rarely does. That's why it's fighting tooth and nail to send these F-16s over to Islamabad.

In terms of Afganistan, the fact that the government that doesn't govern even beyond Kabul is recklessly playing with fire and hosting Indian conspiracies to destabilize Pakistan is the real irony. In my estimation, the recklessness of the Kabul government is the biggest reason why the Taliban are becoming a bigger force by the year.

 

[Spectre]

Again, that's a simplistic assertion. This is an exchange between individuals with honor and reputation at stake. These are entanglements between states. The lawmakers have every right to question since the money is the tax of their constituencies, but as we saw the with 8 F-16s, the other lawmakers that support the deal outweight the other camp. The White House and the military industrial complex supports it as well.

If you remember, India paid billions to get Apache helicopters from the US. Pakistan paid ZERO for similar equipment and got 15 pieces of the latest Cobras that no country outside the US operate. So why should Pakistan throw temper tantrum & walk away from free gifts? Pakistan is making India spend billions for what it gets for free. This serves an an important strategic objective. The Indians know this which is why they are employing lobbyists and every trick under the sun to place hurdles which have failed so far.

Important to remember, similar stunts even happen with Israel & Egypt and will continue to happen.

In terms of self-respect, the fact that the world's sole super power over depends on Pakistan for the success of critical strategic objectives says otherwise.

Pakistan is getting those Helos for free? That's news to me, Can you support it with a link?

And yeah along with military lollipops, Pakistan has gotten various other gifts too post 9/11 courtesy uncle sam. I wonder what Pakistanis would prefer - pre '01 peace and economic progress vs few F-16s and other tidbits.

 

[Paksanity]

I wonder what Pakistanis would prefer - pre '01 peace and economic progress vs few F-16s and other tidbits.

Both.

 

[باپ]

As long as our JF-17 program is up and running, it matters not if USA supplies F-16 or keeps it to cover the costs of Donald Trumps fake tan.

 

[Spectre]

Both.

Why would US offer goodies if you are not hurting for them? In this world there are no free lunches.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Quite a tragic development , that program has been quite un-useful to purchase anything of value

 

[Paksanity]

Why would US offer goodies if you are not hurting for them? In this world there are no free lunches.

US and Pakistan's interests converge on Afghanistan. Both want to stabilise the situation there. There are differences on how best to achieve this. These differences have been managed so far. Both US and Pakistani forces have rendered sacrifices in pursuing those goals. It is only logical that US contributes to the security and prosperity of an ally which has suffered fighting alongside. Pakistan's role is in stark contrast to some other nations who have chosen to exploit the situation for their own benefit. At the expense of innocent Afghan and Pakistani citizens, I might add.

 

[Spectre]

US and Pakistan's interests converge on Afghanistan. Both want to stabilise the situation there. There are differences on how best to achieve this. These differences have been managed so far. Both US and Pakistani forces have rendered sacrifices in pursuing those goals. It is only logical that US contributes to the security and prosperity of an ally which has suffered fighting alongside. Pakistan's role is in stark contrast to some other nations who have chosen to exploit the situation for their own benefit. At the expense of innocent Afghan and Pakistani citizens, I might add.

There are sharp differences within US and Afghan themselves and Pakistan's motives are nowhere as altruistic as you suggest. That is why the increasing acrimony and dissatisfaction within US and Afghanistan on Pakistan dubious role in sheltering the Taliban and Enemy numero uno OBL, that is why the increasing questioning from both sides of aisle in US senate and congress, that is why the pointed reminders from white house, military generals and state dept on how Pakistan is quite selective when it comes to targeting militants.

You might wish from green skies but that doesn't make it so

As for Indian role as you indirectly referenced, you should just look at the goodwill India has with Afghans and US themselves to arrive at the conclusion of constructive role being played by India. We have constructed dams, highways, hospitals and even their parliament vis a vis Pakistan providing state protocol to Talibunnies. @A-Team @Sher Malang your views

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Just bomb Afghanistan already

• Attack on school -> Afghanistan
  
• Attack on University -> Afghanistan
• AGENT captured (recently) -> Afghanistan
• Indian Agent captured (recently) -> border afghan-iran
• Taliban weapon supply -> Afghanistan via Inida
  
• Taliban = Talib + Indian = Taliban

Take over Afghanistan