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We have sufficient steel demand to put it a dual use but our private organization cannot incur the capital investment required ... We are talking multi billion dollars investment ... Even revival of steel mill (which is in capable of producing ship grade steel) requires 500 billion worth of investment just to restart its manufacturing ...

The only way we can do is through givernment initial investment and then IPO
I think when I last enquired from a local steel exporter to Pak ( many a moons ago) he quoted 2 billion US$ for a small plant. We cannot do with another big venture like PSM. However smaller units producing specialized steel is doable with Government help. However anything in the hands of Govtt is asking to be a disaster hence the suggestion for private venture. We might be able to get a second hand steel plant from EU as quite a few have shut down but a concerted effort needs to be made.
A
 
I think when I last enquired from a local steel exporter to Pak ( many a moons ago) he quoted 2 billion US$ for a small plant. We cannot do with another big venture like PSM. However smaller units producing specialized steel is doable with Government help. However anything in the hands of Govtt is asking to be a disaster hence the suggestion for private venture. We might be able to get a second hand steel plant from EU as quite a few have shut down but a concerted effort needs to be made.
A
IMO specialized steel units will have the highest chance of emerging from the PA, PAF or PN. In this case, you have actual needs - not just in terms of the equipment that'll use steel, but an incentive to lower long-term costs (by reducing imports) - and relative security from corruption and mismanagement. However, the risk (or trade off to be more apt) is that progression will entirely be tied to armed forces needs, so they could stick to basically producing the same kind of steel for decades before shifting (and might stifle out R&D in progression).

On compromise would be for joint-public and private ownership split between a private sector company and NESCOM, PAC, etc. In this case, the public-side of the management will be from the armed forces (better than civilian). The advantage is that the steel unit will have relative autonomy to conduct R&D and change its product line independently while still keeping a % (e.g. 30-40%) out of the output geared towards domestic needs. They can gear the remaining 60% to export, and NESCOM/PAC/KSEW, etc will be ok with it because as equity owners they'll get a return-on-investment.
 
I think when I last enquired from a local steel exporter to Pak ( many a moons ago) he quoted 2 billion US$ for a small plant. We cannot do with another big venture like PSM. However smaller units producing specialized steel is doable with Government help. However anything in the hands of Govtt is asking to be a disaster hence the suggestion for private venture. We might be able to get a second hand steel plant from EU as quite a few have shut down but a concerted effort needs to be made.
A
IMO specialized steel units will have the highest chance of emerging from the PA, PAF or PN. In this case, you have actual needs - not just in terms of the equipment that'll use steel, but an incentive to lower long-term costs (by reducing imports) - and relative security from corruption and mismanagement. However, the risk (or trade off to be more apt) is that progression will entirely be tied to armed forces needs, so they could stick to basically producing the same kind of steel for decades before shifting (and might stifle out R&D in progression).

On compromise would be for joint-public and private ownership split between a private sector company and NESCOM, PAC, etc. In this case, the public-side of the management will be from the armed forces (better than civilian). The advantage is that the steel unit will have relative autonomy to conduct R&D and change its product line independently while still keeping a % (e.g. 30-40%) out of the output geared towards domestic needs. They can gear the remaining 60% to export, and NESCOM/PAC/KSEW, etc will be ok with it because as equity owners they'll get a return-on-investment.

Guys unfortunately it can't work in a sustainable way like this ... Actually this is a complete industrial chain and the specialized steel we are talking about is downstream industry of the chain ...

Now all these has to be integrated otherwise it will not be a sustainable business... For example in pakistan , Pakistan Steel Mill was the only organization that was manufacturing iron and steel ...
Basically they were extracting iron from iron ore and as a result they were the first organization in the supply chain, my father and his brother dedicated whole life to the industry and i grew up in residential sociert established for the employees of Pakistan Steel Mill therefore I understand it from scratch ...

Now loosing this capability means the other steel manufacturers (which are downstream manufacturers) are suffering from market factors such as dollar rate, international prices and availability ...

Now the challenge i big players (which are fully integrated) are charging extra margins for the semi-finished iron and steel product so that other smaller players that are working on a part of supply chain cannot survive ...

You can take example of Aisha Steel, for example, they are purchasing iron bars to be converted into steel bars, their raw material in international market is expensive (in comparision to what they could get from an efficiently working Pakistan Steel) and as a result their final product is expensive in comparision to the one available in international market ...

Suggestions that PAF and PN raised the demand of specialized steel is not possible as steel based industries can run only with a minimum capacity ... if they work below a certain capacity they can never work so generally these downstream industries have multiple products or you can say multiple grade steel so that they can achieve minimum capacity however PN, PAF and Army cannot generate enough demand to reach the minimum capacity ... As a result private sector is not willing to take further risk after closure of Pakistan Steel Mill ...

THere is a reason that specialized steel as demanded by the military are being produced in government-owned institutes such as people steel mills as they are all in losses ...

FOr these huge sectors, there is no shortcut and government need to intervene and start building this sector from scratch ... Pakistan Steel Mill is the first step as this will provide raw iron and raw steel for value added product at sustainable price ...
 
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I think when I last enquired from a local steel exporter to Pak ( many a moons ago) he quoted 2 billion US$ for a small plant. We cannot do with another big venture like PSM. However smaller units producing specialized steel is doable with Government help. However anything in the hands of Govtt is asking to be a disaster hence the suggestion for private venture. We might be able to get a second hand steel plant from EU as quite a few have shut down but a concerted effort needs to be made.
A

Sorry to way-lay the discussion but thought some history might be useful. This I got from one of the decision makers in the loop of that era - the original plan was to develop two small steel mills - one in a location with iron ore (yes Pakistan has serious iron ore deposits) and one in a location with steel-grade coal (yes Pak has that too).

The plan was to link both these areas with a rail-link, and get two smaller plants from Germany. The train would bring iron ore from one end and deliver it to the plant which has coal, and vice versa.

ZA Butto blocked this plan and instead went to the Soviet Union and got an obsolete and large steel plant from there instead. For some odd reason this steel mill was put near Karachi and the iron ore and coal was imported to make it run.

The rest is history - ruined the industrial development of Pakistan and now everyone believes making steel in Pakistan is a fool's errand.

A coal and steel industry is the heart of an industrial policy. General progress cannot be made without this in a country.
 
Whoever told you this is living at fools land ... Yes we have iron ore deposit but they are in district chaghi and despite of steel mill is capable of processing the ore it cannot be extracted due to law and order situation and the coal reserves we have are in badin and are not of ideal quality ...

Furthermore the obsolete plant you are talking about gave full peoduction for a good thirty years till we ruined it by politics and beaurecracy ...

If that was obsolete then how can it kept on working for 30 years and even at the end it was not the plant but the management of the plant was faulty resulting on losses ...

I am a first hand witness to the history ... My father and uncle joined in 1979 and my uncle even went to russia for the maintenance training ... I never heard of anything in my life about plant being absolete ... And i greww up visiting steel mill on weekends just for fun ...
 
Whoever told me this is "living in fools paradise" - former secretary of agriculture Dr. Zafar Altaf.
Welcome to my block list for being an insufferable, ignorant and stupid poster.
 
Whoever told me this is "living in fools paradise" - former secretary of agriculture Dr. Zafar Altaf.
Welcome to my block list for being an insufferable, ignorant and stupid poster.
You are free to do whateverr you want ... Who the hell is Zafar Altaf ? What he has to do with Pakistan Steel Mill ... I am giving you first hand information ... Even my schooling is from school owned by Pakistan Steel Mills...

Ok you keep on believing the false information as you have no facts and has no answer to the fact that a plant which kept working for 30 years without fail or shutting down even for a minute or any accident is obsolete...

Good luck with that ...
 
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Sorry to way-lay the discussion but thought some history might be useful. This I got from one of the decision makers in the loop of that era - the original plan was to develop two small steel mills - one in a location with iron ore (yes Pakistan has serious iron ore deposits) and one in a location with steel-grade coal (yes Pak has that too).

The plan was to link both these areas with a rail-link, and get two smaller plants from Germany. The train would bring iron ore from one end and deliver it to the plant which has coal, and vice versa.

ZA Butto blocked this plan and instead went to the Soviet Union and got an obsolete and large steel plant from there instead. For some odd reason this steel mill was put near Karachi and the iron ore and coal was imported to make it run.

The rest is history - ruined the industrial development of Pakistan and now everyone believes making steel in Pakistan is a fool's errand.

A coal and steel industry is the heart of an industrial policy. General progress cannot be made without this in a country.


Hi,

There are two different things being discussed---. The strategy of the build and the location of the russian steel mill---.
 
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