What's new

Pakistan has as much a right to Nuclear Suppliers Group membership as India – if not more

Chauvinist

FULL MEMBER
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
840
Reaction score
2
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
South Asian security and strategic stability is a very relevant subject and the politics of NSG has gained immense significance in the recent few months not only in South Asia but in the international corridors of power as well. The NSG is now confronted with a very critical issue of high politics where all major powers are generating tremendous pressure favoring India’s membership into the NSG. It is ironic since it was India whose 1974 nuclear test led to the very creation of the NSG. The basic purpose of the NSG is to provide a mechanism through which the non-proliferation goal could be achieved, but in the present scenario the group members are unanimously supporting India- a proliferator- to be part of the group. This group is not a formal, institutional or governmental group but a private cartel of 48 members. Notwithstanding the question of its legitimacy, it is an important group since it deals with the dual use of nuclear technology, commercial nuclear activities and nuclear exchanges between the member states.


The NSG membership has also become a symbol of prestige which probably is one of the reasons why India is vehemently pursuing its membership. India is being supported by the US in this regard, irrespective of any principles or criteria on which the inclusion should be based. This can give India, a non-NPT nuclear state, a further recognition as a nuclear weapon state and an edge over other non-NPT nuclear states, such as Pakistan which is not being considered to be equated with India. This discrimination against Pakistan has a history and specifically goes back to the signing of India-US nuclear deal in 2008. In the last two plenary meetings of NSG, few states opposed the US’ “country-specific” stance and stressed that India should only be included on the merit basis. They took a very principled stand by stating that if the NSG has to be expanded it should be based on some criteria.

India’s partnership with the US is largely viewed as an alliance. India is seen as a pivot to Asia and Asia-Pacific and is being encouraged by the US to develop its conventional capabilities and nuclear program. For this purpose the US is providing hi-tech weapon system, aircraft carriers and other nuclear technology to India. This support is not in the best interest of Pakistan, because it undermines Pakistan’s security at the level of conventional military capabilities and also disturbs nuclear equilibrium in the region. The strategic stability of South Asia is crucial for maintenance of peace around the region because the instability between the two South Asian nuclear states may also drag the great powers into regional politics, which India and Pakistan have alignments with.

Conversely, there are many security driven reasons for Pakistan to join NSG. If India is treated as an exemption and becomes the member of the NSG, it will create instability in the region. Another reason for Pakistan is of political nature i.e. since the decision in NSG would be based on consensus where India will be the first to get membership, it will become very difficult for Pakistan to join the group at any later stage. Another reason is socio-economic; since Pakistan has ambitious plans for the development of its nuclear energy sector, the goal which could be more easily achieved if it gets NSG membership. Yet another reason is technological; Pakistan is an advanced nuclear country which in the last few years has started producing the nuclear fuel domestically for Karachi Nuclear Power Plant (KANUPP) reactor. This gives a sufficient rationale for Pakistan to ask for NSG membership.

Pakistani experts believe that the country meets the criteria for NSG membership except that it is not the member of NPT. Pakistan’s credentials qualify it to become the member of NSG as Pakistan fully adheres to the requirements of the Convention on Nuclear Safety (CNS); Pakistan possesses separate nuclear operational and nuclear regulatory authority. All NPPs of Pakistan are under IAEA safeguards whereas eight nuclear reactors of India are outside IAEA safeguards and speedily creating weapons grade uranium too. Pakistan has strong nuclear export and control measures and never has to face any issue/problem in this regard. However, Pakistan needs to realize that NSG cannot approve the same criteria for both the NPT members and non-NPT member states. Nonetheless, it will be encouraging to engage the non-NPT nuclear states in the non-proliferation regime thus it is very important for Pakistan to be active engage with countries that are skeptical about its nuclear credentials.

On the debate to separating the politics from non-proliferation regime, it should be realized that it could happen only if we were living in the perfect world but the things should be seen realistically; unfortunately the non-proliferation regime is much politicized. Due to geopolitical interests, countries whose record is far from perfect are being portrayed as countries with perfect record.

To conclude, it is in the national interest of Pakistan to become the member; Pakistan should develop criteria on its own and submit it to the other countries and should ask them for their support. It is time to work hard, because if Pakistan has a goal it should do its best to make it happen.

@I S I @Devil Soul @Zibago @Windjammer @Dazzler @Doordie @django @PaklovesTurkiye @Moonlight
 
South Asian security and strategic stability is a very relevant subject and the politics of NSG has gained immense significance in the recent few months not only in South Asia but in the international corridors of power as well. The NSG is now confronted with a very critical issue of high politics where all major powers are generating tremendous pressure favoring India’s membership into the NSG. It is ironic since it was India whose 1974 nuclear test led to the very creation of the NSG. The basic purpose of the NSG is to provide a mechanism through which the non-proliferation goal could be achieved, but in the present scenario the group members are unanimously supporting India- a proliferator- to be part of the group. This group is not a formal, institutional or governmental group but a private cartel of 48 members. Notwithstanding the question of its legitimacy, it is an important group since it deals with the dual use of nuclear technology, commercial nuclear activities and nuclear exchanges between the member states.


The NSG membership has also become a symbol of prestige which probably is one of the reasons why India is vehemently pursuing its membership. India is being supported by the US in this regard, irrespective of any principles or criteria on which the inclusion should be based. This can give India, a non-NPT nuclear state, a further recognition as a nuclear weapon state and an edge over other non-NPT nuclear states, such as Pakistan which is not being considered to be equated with India. This discrimination against Pakistan has a history and specifically goes back to the signing of India-US nuclear deal in 2008. In the last two plenary meetings of NSG, few states opposed the US’ “country-specific” stance and stressed that India should only be included on the merit basis. They took a very principled stand by stating that if the NSG has to be expanded it should be based on some criteria.

India’s partnership with the US is largely viewed as an alliance. India is seen as a pivot to Asia and Asia-Pacific and is being encouraged by the US to develop its conventional capabilities and nuclear program. For this purpose the US is providing hi-tech weapon system, aircraft carriers and other nuclear technology to India. This support is not in the best interest of Pakistan, because it undermines Pakistan’s security at the level of conventional military capabilities and also disturbs nuclear equilibrium in the region. The strategic stability of South Asia is crucial for maintenance of peace around the region because the instability between the two South Asian nuclear states may also drag the great powers into regional politics, which India and Pakistan have alignments with.

Conversely, there are many security driven reasons for Pakistan to join NSG. If India is treated as an exemption and becomes the member of the NSG, it will create instability in the region. Another reason for Pakistan is of political nature i.e. since the decision in NSG would be based on consensus where India will be the first to get membership, it will become very difficult for Pakistan to join the group at any later stage. Another reason is socio-economic; since Pakistan has ambitious plans for the development of its nuclear energy sector, the goal which could be more easily achieved if it gets NSG membership. Yet another reason is technological; Pakistan is an advanced nuclear country which in the last few years has started producing the nuclear fuel domestically for Karachi Nuclear Power Plant (KANUPP) reactor. This gives a sufficient rationale for Pakistan to ask for NSG membership.

Pakistani experts believe that the country meets the criteria for NSG membership except that it is not the member of NPT. Pakistan’s credentials qualify it to become the member of NSG as Pakistan fully adheres to the requirements of the Convention on Nuclear Safety (CNS); Pakistan possesses separate nuclear operational and nuclear regulatory authority. All NPPs of Pakistan are under IAEA safeguards whereas eight nuclear reactors of India are outside IAEA safeguards and speedily creating weapons grade uranium too. Pakistan has strong nuclear export and control measures and never has to face any issue/problem in this regard. However, Pakistan needs to realize that NSG cannot approve the same criteria for both the NPT members and non-NPT member states. Nonetheless, it will be encouraging to engage the non-NPT nuclear states in the non-proliferation regime thus it is very important for Pakistan to be active engage with countries that are skeptical about its nuclear credentials.

On the debate to separating the politics from non-proliferation regime, it should be realized that it could happen only if we were living in the perfect world but the things should be seen realistically; unfortunately the non-proliferation regime is much politicized. Due to geopolitical interests, countries whose record is far from perfect are being portrayed as countries with perfect record.

To conclude, it is in the national interest of Pakistan to become the member; Pakistan should develop criteria on its own and submit it to the other countries and should ask them for their support. It is time to work hard, because if Pakistan has a goal it should do its best to make it happen.

@I S I @Devil Soul @Zibago @Windjammer @Dazzler @Doordie @django @PaklovesTurkiye @Moonlight

criteria based approach is fine
I just see Pakistan balking at the criteria
 
india cant force the wor;d to abandon pakistan.this all excersise of isolating pakistan will ultimately backfire as we pakistanis becoming bloody efficiant when we face threats like this.sooner or later pakistan will enter nsg with india.there is no going alone here.that soon india realizes the better for all of us
 
india cant force the wor;d to abandon pakistan.this all excersise of isolating pakistan will ultimately backfire as we pakistanis becoming bloody efficiant when we face threats like this.sooner or later pakistan will enter nsg with india.there is no going alone here.that soon india realizes the better for all of us
Better for you??

India already enjoy all the benefits with getting the waiver. The membership is not about getting anything but rather playing a major role in world politics.

It can be a matter of prestige for pakistan as it is all worked to match itself against india and falling short then reciting the multiplication factor of 7x or 6x or 15x.
 
Better for you??

India already enjoy all the benefits with getting the waiver. The membership is not about getting anything but rather playing a major role in world politics.

It can be a matter of prestige for pakistan as it is all worked to match itself against india and falling short then reciting the multiplication factor of 7x or 6x or 15x.
so u think pakistan is being deprived of nuclear tech??whats ur point exactly?
all i want to say is that if u had so much prestige u could have been a member by now,but u guys are on a waiver of usa which can withdraw that when ever she likes.
and that u cant go in alone.
 
india cant force the wor;d to abandon pakistan.this all excersise of isolating pakistan will ultimately backfire as we pakistanis becoming bloody efficiant when we face threats like this.sooner or later pakistan will enter nsg with india.there is no going alone here.that soon india realizes the better for all of us

it is not a question whether india is fine with your membership
a lot of other countries do not like your policies
 
criteria based approach is fine
I just see Pakistan balking at the criteria

Neither India or Pakistan will sign NPT, which is a requirement for membership. Until this impasse is removed, it could be a difficult road.

india cant force the wor;d to abandon pakistan.this all excersise of isolating pakistan will ultimately backfire as we pakistanis becoming bloody efficiant when we face threats like this.sooner or later pakistan will enter nsg with india.there is no going alone here.that soon india realizes the better for all of us

India said it has no objection to Pakistan joining to NSG. I've also said that both countries should work together on convincing other members that they deserve membership and their fetish for NPT needs to stop.
 
so u think pakistan is being deprived of nuclear tech??whats ur point exactly?
all i want to say is that if u had so much prestige u could have been a member by now,but u guys are on a waiver of usa which can withdraw that when ever she likes.
and that u cant go in alone.
Yes pakistan is deprived of the tech. China has signed a nuclear energy cooperation with pakistan before joining the NSG for which it is still regretting. They are actually working on the nuclear powerplant that can work at your plants in karachi. Nobody s offering you enriched uranium and or co-operating to help grow any indigenous solution either.
 
Neither India or Pakistan will sign NPT, which is a requirement for membership. Until this impasse is removed, it could be a difficult road.

India said it has no objection to Pakistan joining to NSG. I've also said that both countries should work together on convincing other members that they deserve membership and their fetish for NPT needs to stop.

If you want a waiver on NPT it is fine. but the smaller countries will want compliance with CTBT and FMCT. India is fine with unofficial compliance with these treaties. Pakistan might have a real issue here.
 
Yes pakistan is deprived of the tech. China has signed a nuclear energy cooperation with pakistan before joining the NSG for which it is still regretting. They are actually working on the nuclear powerplant that can work at your plants in karachi. Nobody s offering you enriched uranium and or co-operating to help grow any indigenous solution either.
hahaha did chinese officials told you this. u must be feeling sorry for ur chinese brothers dont u?after all hindi cheeni bhai bhai
 
all i want to say is that if u had so much prestige u could have been a member by now,but u guys are on a waiver of usa which can withdraw that when ever she likes.
and that u cant go in alone.
The waiver is not provided by country but by the whole group including china. They also know that they will have to do make a decision soon. All they are doing is taking sometimefor their cheerleader.

As for pakistan, their case only rest on china.
 
Yes yes. Give matches to the kid who wants to play with the fire.

/s
 
Ha ha ha, every now and then **** ministers keep on shouting about using tactical nuclear weapons against India and still you guys think that you can get nsg membership. Apart from this,the chances of nuclear technology theft by extremist cunts present and flourishing in Pakistan can't be ruled out. Just because china is supporting Pakistan doesn't mean that all the nsg members would reach to a consensus on granting membership to Pakistan, at least a sane person can't think of it, among the five criteria based on which the membership is considered, Pakistan only fulfills one I.e ability to supply items on nsg control list. Rest 4 are strong export control regime which you can't fulfill in near future due to military's control over government, best you can do is to sell the same technology to an insane state like dprk which itself goes against another criteria that is abiding by nsg guidelines and also your military's propaganda of proliferating nuclear weapons is not in line with the criteria of efforts to stop nuclear proliferation. Finally you can put a step ahead only if you sign npt to gain 1 point lead in this effort which is in India's own interest.

So, it's better that you stop dreaming and let india get the membership which it rightly deserve by fulfilling 4 criteria out of 5.
 
Neither India or Pakistan will sign NPT, which is a requirement for membership. Until this impasse is removed, it could be a difficult road.



India said it has no objection to Pakistan joining to NSG. I've also said that both countries should work together on convincing other members that they deserve membership and their fetish for NPT needs to stop.



What planet was that post from????...... Pakistan can NEVER work with India nor will there EVER be peace with them. The situation and hatred between Pakistan is far worst than that between the Palestinians and Israelis. This will go on for eternity. Nothing & no-one can ever change that.

Yes pakistan is deprived of the tech. China has signed a nuclear energy cooperation with pakistan before joining the NSG for which it is still regretting. They are actually working on the nuclear powerplant that can work at your plants in karachi. Nobody s offering you enriched uranium and or co-operating to help grow any indigenous solution either.


No we are not. We can get all that technology but illegally. Pakistan already has the capability to produce H-bombs, Fusion bombs and thermonuclear weapons since at least early 2011:

http://isis-online.org/isis-reports...g-nuclear-weapons-time-for-pakistan-to-rever/

Saying we can't get the tech is lame indian lies and fantasies. It's just like pre-May 1998 when indians confidently & vehemently said that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. We know what happened to that indian fantasy and dribble and we all know what will happen to this one.

Not so. Even with the all hostility, even now, India and Pakistan trade with each other. There is the mechanism of IWT. Both countries maintain diplomatic relations.

Membership in NSG is not about pitting India against Pakistan, but for both countries to peacefully acquire (or sell) civilian nuclear technology.

It's totally possible.


If what you say is true then it should all be stopped and all diplomatic relations permanently severed. It's absolutely disgusting.
 
What planet was that post from????...... Pakistan can NEVER work with India nor will there EVER be peace with them. The situation and hatred between Pakistan is far worst than that between the Palestinians and Israelis. This will go on for eternity. Nothing & no-one can ever change that.

Not so. Even with the all hostility, even now, India and Pakistan trade with each other. There is the mechanism of IWT. Both countries maintain diplomatic relations.

Membership in NSG is not about pitting India against Pakistan, but for both countries to peacefully acquire (or sell) civilian nuclear technology.

It's totally possible.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom