Pakistan Domestic 155 mm artillery gun is under test and trial : HIT

[Mrc]

ANA had <200 Mraps , that's less than our inventory , please don't tell me that Humvee and M1117 are mraps as well according to your definition

USA had alot more? What happened? Did they win?

 

[DJ_Viper]

the ones we acquired from Italy were all towed ones, right?

SP fit an offensive role as they can keep pace with armor and infantry, towed ones are better for fixed defensive position with lots of ammo dumped nearby

MRAPS don't win a war, artillery can devastate the enemy formations

With near 500-600 enemy aircraft within a few hundred miles, I'd take my chances with SP because I can change my position very quickly. Any fire finder radar, satellite, etc., can locate my column of stationary artillery and can direct an air assault, guided munitions, or direct live fire within minutes. In the future wars, agility is the name of the game.

A country like China is having to build so many ghost missile silos to fool the US satellites and intelligence, just to reduce the opponents ability to direct attacks towards it's fixed columns.

 

[Signalian]

And still no MRAPs..... Mind boggling.

MRAPs are available and are in use of Pakistan Army.
How many MRAPs have been ordered by FC ?
Has the Ministry of Interior floated tender to HIT or any other defense organization for acquisition of MRAPs ?

 

[Signalian]

You are loosing soldiers every day. You are loosing them because they are travelling in a death trap called Toyota Hilux. I am seeing soldiers dying for past 12 years. And I am also seeing sheer incompetence of our leadership. I also see how every country which faced insurgency first thing they went and bought was MRAP. I can literally post news of around 70 countries who have bought MRAP in past 10 years. But our soldiers are superman they should travel in Hilux which would keep them safe which are not. And guess what when we raise the issue the money issue is brought up. But we have enough money to spend on Tanks and Artillery and all other weapons but not what we need right now. Yes genius. Yesterday families of 3 levies martyred had blocked entire Baluchistan. They were protesting. Dude the way things are going I am seriously smelling something really bad to happen and no one else should be blamed except for our leadership.
By the way I am quite curious on why on earth they invited media and did press conference ? I am trying to figure our the reason behind it.

If Commander Levies has made a request for MRAPs to MOI or IG FC has made a request for MRAPs, which has been declined by the Government (MOI + COAS + IK) or HIT has sent a notice that MRAPs will not be provided to FC or Levies, then it's criminal.

Where is budget of Ministry of Interior going ? what about the budget for Levies and FC ?

If PA field commanders are sending requests to GHQ for addition of MRAPs to XI and XII Corps primarily while the requests are being declined then the command gets the blame.

HIT has been producing M-113 and Al-Talha which have been used in FATA under Pakistan Army for WOT. 1. Has FC requested for M-113s from MOI till MRAPs can be procured ?
2. T-69 have been handed over to FC, Is FC using T-69 to give armed escort through heavy firepower to its convoys and routine patrolling ?
3. Has FC requested for more helicopters from MOI ?

 

[Moon]

MRAPs are available and are in use of Pakistan Army.
How many MRAPs have been ordered by FC ?
Has the Ministry of Interior floated tender to HIT or any other defense organization for acquisition of MRAPs ?

Nopes, but Army isn't using them in Waziristan either.
As for the highlighted part, FC did send tenders for vehicle armour plating, bullet proof glass and mounts for 12.7mm guns.
Tenders will close on 30th August. (Saw it in Dawn newspaper.)

 

[Signalian]

What are the chances that this is a licensed production? Do we have the metallurgical infrastructure in place to design and develop such weapon systems from scratch?

I am trying to learn here. I have always been confused that what are the advantages of towed artillery pieces over SPs? Aren't SPGs we have acquired from China (and probably license producing) mobile and mounted on truck chassis? Is mobility not good to evade counter-battery fire?

PA towed artillery arsenal is using guns of different calibers which have been designed on WW2 era guns although upgraded. They are a mix of 105,122,130 and 155mm while majority of SP is 155mm.

SP Arty cannot be used with units under command of 10 Corps which are FCNA, 12 Div, 19 Div and probably 23 Div. None of these Divs has 155mm towed gun. AFAIK the 155mm towed guns are in use with V-Corps, but I could be wrong. There are a few regiments of towed 155 mm guns which are of USA origin.

FCNA and 12 Div are deployed in mountains. 12 Div has 6 brigades. Then XI and XII Corps do not have major armor contingent to employ SP guns, they are 4 infantry divisions in total.

Considering that an Infantry Div has an artillery brigade to support it. Roughly 6-7 Divisions of PA may not need SP Artillery, rather modernized towed arty guns.

Nopes, but Army isn't using them in Waziristan either.
As for the highlighted part, FC did send tenders for vehicle armour plating, bullet proof glass and mounts for 12.7mm guns.
Tenders will close on 30th August. (Saw it in Dawn newspaper.)

First step is complete, Lets wait and see what FC gets.

 

[araz]

Yara. Why are you never happy? Be happy for what you have achieved. InshaaAllah the rest will come as well. Do you know

Nopes, but Army isn't using them in Waziristan either.
As for the highlighted part, FC did send tenders for vehicle armour plating, bullet proof glass and mounts for 12.7mm guns.
Tenders will close on 30th August. (Saw it in Dawn newspaper.)

Which means the financial situation of the government is better for them to start the process of provision of appropriate equipment to the paramilitaries.
A

 

[iLION12345_1]

Sorry to nitpick brother but its spelled corps, not core. Phonetically they sound similar though.

Also a question regarding the artillery in question. Having seen the thing, how long will it take in your opinion for this thing to be ready? I mean how long before there is something the army can put to real trials?

Lol, no worries, that was my bad, I know it’s corps and still misspelled it. Thanks for the correction.

As for the gun, given what they’re saying and what I have seen (keep in mind last I saw that was in 2019), I assume the gun is “ready”, as in its finished its design and construction phase and is in testing. But there’s always two phases to testing as I said above, first HIT itself are gonna put it through a lot of tests to see if it meets their requirements, which are basic Milspec accuracy, durability etc requirements.

After HIT feel satisfied with the product they will be ready to present it to the army, that doesn’t mean the army will instantly buy it or even trial it. The army will only trial it when an internal decision is made that the army is now looking for 155MM towed artillery pieces (we know that the requirement is there so we just skip this step, I only put it here to highlight the process).
Once that decision is made, the army will start testing guns, and this one won’t necessarily be the only one they test, they may also trial foreign offerings and see which one is better (here better is more cost effective, not just best performing. All military procurements have to balance performance with the cost and logistics of a weapon). So they may pick a local or foreign offering depending on the results of the trials, but given how much cheaper local offerings become, even if they don’t perform 100% as good as a foreign offering they become the best option. They also have the added benefit of being modifiable, since it’s local, if the army wants something changed they can just ask HIT to do it, not possible with foreign offerings. (On a side note this is one of the reasons why Chinese stuff sells like hot cakes in Pakistan, they act like they’re local manufacturer, if PA, PAF, PN doesn’t like something about a Chinese product but wants it, China is like “yeah sure tell us what you want and we’ll modify it, end result; Q5, F7PG, VT-4P Etc etc.)

So right now it depends on how quickly HIT can finish their testing and remove any issues that surface in said testing, and also on the militaries budget and modernization plan according to which they will modernize the artillery Corps. Given COAS announcement and the SP artillery trials, I would think we will see this gun under army trials in less than a year from now, as long as problems don’t surface during HITs own trials.

 

[Sifar zero]

Nopes, but Army isn't using them in Waziristan either.
As for the highlighted part, FC did send tenders for vehicle armour plating, bullet proof glass and mounts for 12.7mm guns.
Tenders will close on 30th August. (Saw it in Dawn newspaper.)

Send the article.

 

[ziaulislam]

Artillery gun 155mm being tested;

SAMMA TV shows tank with driver doing doughnuts.

Anyway, good development. Towed artillery needs numbers.

Once u get gun towed or spg is not an issue

Finally the army showing some spine otherwise they were importing everything

Lol, no worries, that was my bad, I know it’s corps and still misspelled it. Thanks for the correction.

As for the gun, given what they’re saying and what I have seen (keep in mind last I saw that was in 2019), I assume the gun is “ready”, as in its finished its design and construction phase and is in testing. But there’s always two phases to testing as I said above, first HIT itself are gonna put it through a lot of tests to see if it meets their requirements, which are basic Milspec accuracy, durability etc requirements.

After HIT feel satisfied with the product they will be ready to present it to the army, that doesn’t mean the army will instantly buy it or even trial it. The army will only trial it when an internal decision is made that the army is now looking for 155MM towed artillery pieces (we know that the requirement is there so we just skip this step, I only put it here to highlight the process).
Once that decision is made, the army will start testing guns, and this one won’t necessarily be the only one they test, they may also trial foreign offerings and see which one is better (here better is more cost effective, not just best performing. All military procurements have to balance performance with the cost and logistics of a weapon). So they may pick a local or foreign offering depending on the results of the trials, but given how much cheaper local offerings become, even if they don’t perform 100% as good as a foreign offering they become the best option. They also have the added benefit of being modifiable, since it’s local, if the army wants something changed they can just ask HIT to do it, not possible with foreign offerings. (On a side note this is one of the reasons why Chinese stuff sells like hot cakes in Pakistan, they act like they’re local manufacturer, if PA, PAF, PN doesn’t like something about a Chinese product but wants it, China is like “yeah sure tell us what you want and we’ll modify it, end result; Q5, F7PG, VT-4P Etc etc.)

So right now it depends on how quickly HIT can finish their testing and remove any issues that surface in said testing, and also on the militaries budget and modernization plan according to which they will modernize the artillery Corps. Given COAS announcement and the SP artillery trials, I would think we will see this gun under army trials in less than a year from now, as long as problems don’t surface during HITs own trials.

Though exact words were gun ready and after testing and trials will be handed over to army
I can only think ..army will inducted it

If Commander Levies has made a request for MRAPs to MOI or IG FC has made a request for MRAPs, which has been declined by the Government (MOI + COAS + IK) or HIT has sent a notice that MRAPs will not be provided to FC or Levies, then it's criminal.

Where is budget of Ministry of Interior going ? what about the budget for Levies and FC ?

If PA field commanders are sending requests to GHQ for addition of MRAPs to XI and XII Corps primarily while the requests are being declined then the command gets the blame.

HIT has been producing M-113 and Al-Talha which have been used in FATA under Pakistan Army for WOT. 1. Has FC requested for M-113s from MOI till MRAPs can be procured ?
2. T-69 have been handed over to FC, Is FC using T-69 to give armed escort through heavy firepower to its convoys and routine patrolling ?
3. Has FC requested for more helicopters from MOI ?

T-69 or m113 are not mraps and are not what FC needs

 

[ziaulislam]

Problem is somehwere
Either in FC command(if they arent asking for MRAPs) or GHQ if they arenot providing it

There is no otherway to sugar coat it..its simply invompetence

 

[iLION12345_1]

Once u get gun towed or spg is not an issue

Finally the army showing some spine otherwise they were importing everything

Though exact words were gun ready and after testing and trials will be handed over to army
I can only think ..army will inducted it

I haven’t actually watched the news report, have not had the time, so I was going off what people are saying. But its true that just because HIT makes something doesn’t mean the armed forces will buy it, has happened many times before, the “handover” could mean they’ll hand it over for trials to the army. Or it could mean the army is the one doing the trials to see wether they want to pick the gun or not, I assumed the former because I’ve only heard of SP trials so far and not towed gun trials, however it may just be that they are occurring and I haven’t heard.
@PanzerKiel can tell better, if he’s allowed to of course

 

[ziaulislam]

Same incomptence seen everywhere in pakistan from healthcare to polciy making

 

[aziqbal]

it better be self propelled and now towed

155mm shells are already built by POF

making a gun is big news

South Korea helped Turkey

if Pakistan can do it great news

 

[Ali_Baba]

What will be interesting to know is what the barrel life of the artillery gun will be versus its competitors and whether the barrel was imported as a blank and machine in Pakistan, or if the barrel was manufactured from raw materials in Pakistan.

If the later - there is the prospect that this will be affordable to replace all of Pakistan's old artillery pieces. These guns do get a serious workout at the LOC.