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Pakistan discloses borrowing from China

Even though China need Pakistan for their BRI, they have shrewd business mindset. They don’t give anything for free.
(why should they? Our leaders have even made Arab leaders mamu by taking their money for fake science research or other fake projects)

We haven’t even started making any real money from CPEC. Like Musharraf said in one of his Interview, majority of benefits of CPEC will go to China and Pakistan will end up with massive debt.
 
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We haven’t even started making any real money from CPEC. Like Musharraf said in one of his Interview, majority of benefits of CPEC will go to China and Pakistan will end up with massive debt.

We won't be making any net money from CPEC project even for at least the next 20 years as all the meager earnings in those years will be used to pay off the loans and interest on those loans to chinese during that time leaving for pakistan nothing to spend on itself.
 
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We won't be making any net money from CPEC project even for at least the next 20 years as all the meager earnings in those years will be used to pay off the loans and interest on those loans to chinese during that time leaving for pakistan nothing to spend on itself.

Only way we can make money if China can move some of their industries to Pakistan.
Also, attracting Chinese tourists by offering tour packages to Pakistan but Thailand has a bad experience with Chinese tourists.

We need sustainable economy with study increase in GDP which is achievable with right policies and initiatives.
We need to prevent power theft and investment in green energy.
 
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Only way we can make money if China can move some of their industries to Pakistan.
Also, attracting Chinese tourists by offering tour packages to Pakistan but Thailand has a bad experience with Chinese tourists.

We need sustainable economy with study increase in GDP which is achievable with right policies and initiatives.
We need to prevent power theft and investment in green energy.

I don't really like these wet dreams of current governments to achieve economic growth through "tourism", our focus should be GDP growth through modern agriculture and modern manufacturing boost. Tourism can just act what we call "choonga" in punjabi like kind of extra daily tips for a restaurant waiter in addition to his main salary.
 
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I m sure that China wants to see more international investments and loans to Pakistan, but for the time being, there are not many countries investing so China has to take the lead, you've got to prepare the basic infrastructure if you want to make money, money doesn't grow in tress. without connectivity and stable power supply, it's almost impossible for any country to make it to the next level of development.
 
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Only way we can make money if China can move some of their industries to Pakistan.
Also, attracting Chinese tourists by offering tour packages to Pakistan but Thailand has a bad experience with Chinese tourists.

We need sustainable economy with study increase in GDP which is achievable with right policies and initiatives.
We need to prevent power theft and investment in green energy.
I've heard from Chinese businessmen that there are two things that are very unfavorable to investment in Pakistan.
First, frequent blackouts(Lack of infrastructure);
Secondly, security problems are serious in provinces other than Punjab and Sindh.
But things are moving in the right direction.
 
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In which parallel world is a LOAN considered as an Investment, LOL ???? Again what Pakistan do with it is your own business, GOP can invest it in CPEC or anything else, but the fact still remain is that the amount mentioned in the article is a loan and not some FDI from China. :-)

Have you heard of profit repatriation? FDI is not free money. I realise you have a agenda.
 
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I've heard from Chinese businessmen that there are two things that are very unfavorable to investment in Pakistan.
First, frequent blackouts(Lack of infrastructure);
Secondly, security problems are serious in provinces other than Punjab and Sindh.
But things are moving in the right direction.

Power is always been a big issue.
1) Remove kunda system (stealing electricity)
2) Big punishment for anyone stealing electricity.
3) Install smart meters.

Army is working to provide full security to CPEC.
Purse and cellphone snatching, stealing, robberies and kidnapping will stop when we provide jobs to our young generation.
 
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Power is always been a big issue.
1) Remove kunda system (stealing electricity)
2) Big punishment for anyone stealing electricity.
3) Install smart meters.

Army is working to provide full security to CPEC.
Purse and cellphone snatching, stealing, robberies and kidnapping will stop when we provide jobs to our young generation.
That sounds very good.
China seems to have been building a lot of infrastructure (power plants included) in CPEC, so in a few years, China should be able to transfer some of its industries to Pakistan. With infrastructure, it is much easier to transfer industries.
That's what China does when it develops its own economy.

We haven’t even started making any real money from CPEC.
It is still in the stage of infrastructure construction, and there is no benefit for the time being.
On the domestic forum, I see that Huawei already has a branch company in Pakistan.

We won't be making any net money from CPEC project even for at least the next 20 years as all the meager earnings in those years will be used to pay off the loans and interest on those loans to chinese during that time leaving for pakistan nothing to spend on itself.

The development of any country is gradual. Before developing the industry, there is a lot of preparatory work to be done. Most Chinese investors prefer to invest in developed countries rather than developing countries because of currency instability (asset depreciation risk), social instability or unfriendly investment environment(lack of infra, discrimination against Foreign Investment, etc.) in many developing countries.
It is impossible for China to give you infrastructure free of charge, because our country is not a rich developed country at present. Moreover, compared with those Westerners who are totally indifferent to Pakistan's development, the Chinese wanna helped you find a way to develop your economy(of course, it's also good for us), I don't think it's a debt trap. It's just a long-term plan.

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No offence. I'd like to conclude by adding some of my own ideas.
There are too many people have no idea of economic development. Just like the slogan put forward by Indians before, in five years to become a developed country, which is absolutely impossible. Many Indian think that high-profit industries can emerge without foundation.

However, the truth is that those who have successfully developed into developed countries have generally experienced capital accumulation for decades or even centuries.
The current situation in Pakistan is very bad, just as it was before the founding of New China. It's better not to expect any high-return investment to make your country a developed country soon. Not even China can do that.

China has achieved the present middle-end industry from the previous low-end industry, through a lot of R&D costs. But while the Chinese were still engaged in low-end industries, China had almost no infrastructure problems. Not to mention education, policy, and public order.
Perhaps from the chart, you can only see China's sudden fast economic growth in the past decade. But you may not know that China has done a lot of preparations earlier, which has no economic benefit at that time.
 
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That sounds very good.
China seems to have been building a lot of infrastructure (power plants included) in CPEC, so in a few years, China should be able to transfer some of its industries to Pakistan. With infrastructure, it is much easier to transfer industries.
That's what China does when it develops its own economy.


It is still in the stage of infrastructure construction, and there is no benefit for the time being.
On the domestic forum, I see that Huawei already has a branch company in Pakistan.



The development of any country is gradual. Before developing the industry, there is a lot of preparatory work to be done. Most Chinese investors prefer to invest in developed countries rather than developing countries because of currency instability (asset depreciation risk), social instability or unfriendly investment environment(lack of infra, discrimination against Foreign Investment, etc.) in many developing countries.
It is impossible for China to give you infrastructure free of charge, because our country is not a rich developed country at present. Moreover, compared with those Westerners who are totally indifferent to Pakistan's development, the Chinese wanna helped you find a way to develop your economy(of course, it's also good for us), I don't think it's a debt trap. It's just a long-term plan.

**
No offence. I'd like to conclude by adding some of my own ideas.
There are too many people have no idea of economic development. Just like the slogan put forward by Indians before, in five years to become a developed country, which is absolutely impossible. Many Indian think that high-profit industries can emerge without foundation.

However, the truth is that those who have successfully developed into developed countries have generally experienced capital accumulation for decades or even centuries.
The current situation in Pakistan is very bad, just as it was before the founding of New China. It's better not to expect any high-return investment to make your country a developed country soon. Not even China can do that.

China has achieved the present middle-end industry from the previous low-end industry, through a lot of R&D costs. But while the Chinese were still engaged in low-end industries, China had almost no infrastructure problems. Not to mention education, policy, and public order.
Perhaps from the chart, you can only see China's sudden fast economic growth in the past decade. But you may not know that China has done a lot of preparations earlier, which has no economic benefit at that time.

Our leaders only cared about paya and Nihari, and do we have the way to infrastructure to delivery it to the farm house.
 
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I will give an example so that everyone can understand how chinese loans and CPEC projects work. Suppose you have a commercial plot at a prime location. You want to construct a shopping plaza but you don't have money for it, in fact you are living hand to mouth and relying on loans from your friends which you pay off from time to time either through your meager earnings or taking some news loans to pay off the previous ones and their interest rates.

Now a rich guy comes to you and gives you an offer that "hey you have got a nice commercial plot, would you like to have a nice plaza constructed on this plot", You tell him "off course, but I cannot since I am struggling to even survive so I have no money to construct the shopping plaza on my plot". The rich guy gives you an offer that he can construct a shopping plaza on your plot using his own money but there will be "conditions" attached to this deal. You ask him "sure I would love if you construct a plaza on my plot using your own money, so tell me what will be conditions of the deal".

The rich guy says "I will lend you the money as a loan, but you cannot use that money on anything other than construction of that shopping plaza on your plot ", "Furthermore, I have a construction company, only this company will be awarded to construct the shopping plaza", "The company will also bring its own workforce and construction material", "So whatever money I will lend you, you will pay it to my company as the project proceeds". You accept the deal and the work starts, the rich guy lends you the lets say 200 million rupees in installments and the construction work is started by his company and you pay the company from the loan that you got from the rich guy as the project proceeds. At the end of the construction project, you have a shopping plaza constructed on your plot but the 200 million rupees that you borrowed from the rich guy all went back to the same rich guy through his construction companies. Now you are under debt of 200 million rupees. You give the shops of the shopping plaza on rent and lets say you earn 10 million rupees annually by collecting rent and pay off part of the debt of the rich guy. It will take you at least 20 years with this amount of earnings to pay off your 200 million worth of debt to the rich guy (I am assuming the debt has zero interest which is off course not the case with loans in the real world). You will only start earning net money from the rent of shopping plaza after 20 years.

That is how all the CPEC projects involving pakistan are being constructed and financed by china.
 
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Stable power and good traffic, is the basis for attracting investment. These investments will be rewarded.
Like Ethiopia is a poor country. The Ethiopian people are hardworking, not lazy, and the law and order is relatively good.The infrastructure is very poor, before only few foreign investments,coop with China and then the transportation and electricity are vigorously developed. In 2014, there was an outbreak of foreign investment in Ethiopia. In addition to China, even Turkish and Bangladeshi companies are investing in Ethiopia, and Western multinationals will bring their own upstream and downstream companies to Ethiopia. Light industry exports have developed rapidly. 10 years GDP growth rate of 10%.
Its neighbors have more resources than Ethiopia, such as oil and minerals, but development is not as good as it is.


I Believe, because China and Pakistan are politically natural allies. China sincerely hopes that Pakistan will develop well.
 
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I will give an example so that everyone can understand how chinese loans and CPEC projects work. Suppose you have a commercial plot at a prime location. You want to construct a shopping plaza but you don't have money for it, in fact you are living hand to mouth and relying on loans from your friends which you pay off from time to time either through your meager earnings or taking some news loans to pay off the previous ones and their interest rates.

Now a rich guy comes to you and gives you an offer that "hey you have got a nice commercial plot, would you like to have a nice plaza constructed on this plot", You tell him "off course, but I cannot since I am struggling to even survive so I have no money to construct the shopping plaza on my plot". The rich guy gives you an offer that he can construct a shopping plaza on your plot using his own money but there will be "conditions" attached to this deal. You ask him "sure I would love if you construct a plaza on my plot using your own money, so tell me what will be conditions of the deal".

The rich guy says "I will lend you the money as a loan, but you cannot use that money on anything other than construction of that shopping plaza on your plot ", "Furthermore, I have a construction company, only this company will be awarded to construct the shopping plaza", "The company will also bring its own workforce and construction material", "So whatever money I will lend you, you will pay it to my company as the project proceeds". You accept the deal and the work starts, the rich guy lends you the lets say 200 million rupees in installments and the construction work is started by his company and you pay the company from the loan that you got from the rich guy as the project proceeds. At the end of the construction project, you have a shopping plaza constructed on your plot but the 200 million rupees that you borrowed from the rich guy all went back to the same rich guy through his construction companies. Now you are under debt of 200 million rupees. You give the shops of the shopping plaza on rent and lets say you earn 10 million rupees annually by collecting rent and pay off part of the debt of the rich guy. It will take you at least 20 years with this amount of earnings to pay off your 200 million worth of debt to the rich guy (I am assuming the debt has zero interest which is off course not the case with loans in the real world). You will only start earning net money from the rent of shopping plaza after 20 years.

That is how all the CPEC projects involving pakistan are being constructed and financed by china.
How about just say NO to that rich guy and enjoy your hand to mouth existence for the rest of your life?

Being poor or rich is relative, 30 years ago China was poorer than Pakistan, what do you think it takes for China to get her today's position? Getting as much foreign loans and investments as possible and for decades relentlessly focusing on infrastructure building. No initial investments, no future fruits, simply put, no pain, no gain.
 
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How about just say NO to that rich guy and enjoy your hand to mouth existence for the rest of your life?

Being poor or rich is relative, 30 years ago China was poorer than Pakistan, what do you think it takes for China to get her today's position? Getting as much foreign loans and investments as possible and for decades relentlessly focusing on infrastructure building. No initial investments, no future fruits, simply put, no pain, no gain.
Totally agree with you but my fellow citizens are just trash talker and no work. A common phrase used in Pakistan for such people is Firing from Mouth (Moonh ki firing). In past we borrowed money which were used on undevelopmental expenditure that's why we fall behind although we were far ahead of time in 60 and early 70. But Nationalization of institutions really destroyed our backbone from which we never recovered and plus last 2 decade we really lost it in every front. But now Pakistani are eager to change themself and so we are trying. It will be hard but i see good future after 10 years.
 
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