What's new

Pakistan Caught In The Middle As China’s OBOR Becomes Saudi-Iranian-Indian Battleground

The difference is, we Pakistanis do not deny that we take positions based on our national security and territorial integrity.

Pakistan is bordered by Afghanistan, the Afghan Taliban control 50% of Afghanistan; and they have not been declared terrorists by even the United States, as the mayor of Kabul (Ghani) has little to no legitimacy amongst the Afghan populace.

However, you intervene in other nations that have nothing to do with your territorial integrity. The nations you interfere in the Middle East do not threaten your territorial integrity, you are competing with Saudi Arabia and Qatar for hegemony over the Muslim world, and that is it.

Pakistan does not have any similar hegemonic agenda, it is only preserving its territorial integrity.

I am talking about negotiations with the Afghan Taliban, not the Pakistani Taliban. You have your own interests and negotiations with the Afghan Taliban, it has nothing to do with Pakistan.

I wouldn't blame Iran if it admitted it did everything for its national security interests, and did not do because it thought it took principled stances. You claim your reasons for interfering in the Middle East have to do with "fighting for the Muslim Ummah", or "supporting oppressed Shias against Sunni monarchs"; but really, you are trying to compete with Saudi Arabia's hegemony in the region, and trying to advance your national interests.

You accuse Saudis and Qataris of doing things you do as well.

Iran's support for Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood is well documented; you in fact protested when Morsi was ousted by Sissi, a secular dictator.

Iran's support for Hamas is well documented as well, even though they share the same ideology as the groups in Syria.



Nice username troll. Change the US flags, and put up the real ones.

Not a troll. But nice though.

I'm not against Pakistan but just look at the anti-Iran hate that's on this site. Some of the hate is completely justified. But in this thread and others it just always goes over board.

Iran is not India and is not seeking Pakistan's destruction.

You know you have internal security issues so on that you can't fault me. But I digress.

I don't want to be enemies idea rather have a civilized conversation.

Also I was born in the US simply it's only right that I have US as my flags.
 
Last edited:
Think for a sec what Iran, India and Pakistan could do if they were allies. However as long as China, US and Saudi can get their agendas implemented then this will never happen.

Think for a sec what Iran, India, Pakistan, Saudi and Israel could do if they were allies - Israel with their technological prowess and Saudi-Iran bringing their combined hydrocarbon resources to the table. Amazing isn't it? :-)

But then China, US, Brazil, Moon-dwellers can 'get their agendas implemented' so that this never happens. :(
 
India never seems far away from the mind of pakistanis. In every thread they seem to see a grand Indian conspiracy. Please keep our name out of your mouth and focus of iran-pakistani relationship instead. We have nothing to do with the success or failure of that relationship.

However, I think these numbskulls do have a point.

Had it occurred to you as to why the Indian government has been dragging its feet for so long on Chabahar? I think the answer has been hiding in plain sight all along.

Like it or not, India's relations with SA are currently far more important than those with Iran. And the Saudis would have undoubtedly made their displeasure known. It is indeed a tightrope walk India has also been forced to make...all because they can't decide whether the Mahdi will return or not.:lol::lol:
 
There have been talks about Zaki's murder being carried out by the Iranians. Such operations are carried out to engineer outrage in the sect he represented, therefore making it easy to recruit the youth which is feeling marginalized. Im telling you that the Pakistani state is losing patience with Iran. Kulbhushan Jadhav case and appointment of Raheel Sharif to IMAFT has been two slight nudges to the Iranian Mullahs, if they don't pull back on Al-Zainboon terrorist group, they'll have another hostile state on the border.
Yaar no doubt that what you say make perfect sense. I am just saying that do you feel the government cares this much about the country to do anything about it? Sadly, i dont think so.
han albata if the arabs can push us in this direction may be then. . . .

Action need to be taken for sure.
 
Do you even listen to yourself?

Iran doesn't fund terrorism in Pakistan, it's your own internal problems that you just don't want to take responsibility for. Go ahead blame Iran all day Arsalan (Nice Persian name by the way)

Can same not be said about Iran ?

Baloch separatists
Sunni militants
Arab &
Azeri separatists
And now PJAK gaining strength ?

Why blame Pak when Baloch militants attack your soldiers?

And before you talk about Baloch militants having base in Balochistan.

Let me remind you of a few facts;

Pak has no interest in Stroking a Baloch insurgency in Sistan as it would automatically effect us.

Pakistan in the past has detained Iranian Baloch separatists like Rigi n gang.

Now if a few incidents happen on your soil don't blame us for it.

Even we have had our share of Pak terrorists using Iranian passports.

Be it Uzair Baloch who was caught from UAE travelling on an Iranian passport or his right hand man who was caught yesterday trying to cross Iranian border.

Or the now infamous Indian intelligence agent who was based in Iran and used Iranian soil to torment trouble in Pakistan. That "kulbushan yadav" chap!


Also let me remind you that it was Pak that didn't jump into Yemen war which you are stroking and it was Pak which asked Iran to be part of the Islamic coalition and stated that Pak shall not lead any coalition based on secterian motives.

What does Pakistan have that the Iranians will regret losing?


Nothing and everything.

That Taliban to your not so friendly Arab and American buddies won't like.


Excessive domestic terrorism?, unstable country? Barking at everyone? Being Saudi Arabia's lap-dog? (My own US is one of the biggest culprits of being a others countries whipping boy)

God, Pakistani Defense forum, more like Pakistani gang up on everyone else that talks just a little against Pakistan forum.

And when you use such pathetic language do you expect us to shower petals ?

What does Iran have ?

Oil and fanatic mullahs tormenting secterian trouble in other countries !

Take the oil away from Saudis and you Iranians and than maybe the region and Islamic world will have peace.
 
Do you even listen to yourself?

Iran doesn't fund terrorism in Pakistan, it's your own internal problems that you just don't want to take responsibility for. Go ahead blame Iran all day Arsalan (Nice Persian name by the way)

What does Pakistan have that the Iranians will regret losing?

Excessive domestic terrorism?, unstable country? Barking at everyone? Being Saudi Arabia's lap-dog? (My own US is one of the biggest culprits of being a others countries whipping boy)

God, Pakistani Defense forum, more like Pakistani gang up on everyone else that talks just a little against Pakistan forum.

no it's not our internal problems.iran have no right to talk about balochistan.i am living near a shia colony here in pakistan.every time,they talk about america and saudia on speakers.if iran have problems with america or saudia,they must solve it.why drag balochistan? pakistan is hosting large number of illegal irani people here in karachi.someone must be held accountable.iran can't blame us for their failures.pakistan didn't put sanctions on iran.it's americans who did it.go and take the revenge and please i fed up of this revenge story against israel.they speak against wahhabis openly on speakers.go and take the revenge.pakistan doesn't care about iran anymore.secure your boundries.it's your duty,not our duty.and i bet you are a shia.lol
 
Yaar no doubt that what you say make perfect sense. I am just saying that do you feel the government cares this much about the country to do anything about it? Sadly, i dont think so.
han albata if the arabs can push us in this direction may be then. . . .

Action need to be taken for sure.
That's a really unrealistic conspiracy theory ..

So let's not get carried away and be honest!

We have sectarianism.. and it's the Shias who are at the receiving end.

Our society isn't secterian but that Fukin fringe element supported by gulf petro dollar is at work.

Whether we like it or not!


Also let's not Fukin forget that when we point a finger at Iranians and their relations with Indians our so called Arab brothers aren't much far.... if the sight of UAEs soldier marching on Indian tunes or Saudi Indian overturns aren't visible to people.. than nothing ever will be.

We Pakistanis are kids taken for a ride and being given a lollipop (brotherhood/ummah crap) and kept busy.
 
i think the future of iran are sanctions.america knows what the devil is doing and it will come to rescue.what pakistan should do? pakistan needs to send back iranians to iran as soon as possible.deport them just like we deported afghanis.we don't need irani people here in pakistan.
Pakistan always was part of greater Iran and Iranian tribe and Iranian people lived there before entering south Asian people.
get back your words.
 
you can't blame pakistan for everything.sectarian war is a reality of pakistan and this can only end if we send all illegal people back to their respective countries.pakistan is not your battle ground.go fight somewhere else.we are already have security issues.whatever has happened with iran in the past,is a lesson for iran itself.a country who is left aside and a country whose voice means nothing for anyone.even russia allows israel to bomb hezbollah despite irani general visits to moscow.what are you talking about here? you have no credibility,no pride nothing whatsoever.you go and fight your proxies and believe that you are the best in the world but who cares! everyone looks at national interest first.it's not about chabahar port or your 10 soldiers who died on the border.it's about trust.you irani people are now calling pakistan terrorist state with massive groups.you should look at your own backyard first.it's not our responsibility to secure your borders.and please don't lie to your people.you don't have the strength to take any action against your old enemies which is israel and america.

Do you even listen to yourself?

Iran doesn't fund terrorism in Pakistan, it's your own internal problems that you just don't want to take responsibility for. Go ahead blame Iran all day Arsalan (Nice Persian name by the way)

What does Pakistan have that the Iranians will regret losing?

Excessive domestic terrorism?, unstable country? Barking at everyone? Being Saudi Arabia's lap-dog? (My own US is one of the biggest culprits of being a others countries whipping boy)

God, Pakistani Defense forum, more like Pakistani gang up on everyone else that talks just a little against Pakistan forum.

Pakistan always was part of greater Iran and Iranian tribe and Iranian people lived there before entering south Asian people.
get back your words.

and iran was a sunni state long time ago.read your history.read about ottoman empire.your eyes will blink.lol
 
Ok, let me explain mate.
Taliban, your government asked us to invite and threaten Pakistani Taleban's boss. We did it because you asked us. I wonder if your governors told you the truth about it. If your government attacks Taleban within your own boundaries, we will have an other Syrian scenario in Pakistan. Your governors did the best thing, Pakistan's Taleban was going to join ISIS, we threatened them of coordinated attack with your army and they retreated. This is what our medias told us.
Hamas is fighting Israel, Turkey however is trying to change their attitude and force them to recognize Israel. We never supported MB, it was a puppet of USA within Muslim world. And they are responsible for the mess in Syria.
Arab monarchs, leave them to Arab people. They can manage it on their own.
As i said, i don't like some of our economical interests.


huh, follow @PaklovesTurkiye

1575642_238.png

We have finished the part of our side, the pipeline is still waiting for you LOL
Don't blame me, you abandoned us.

That is why i am not whining about that.

Iran has been holding discussions with Afghan Taliban not due to Pak but out of nessecity.


We all know US has lost Afghanistan and northern alliance which you supported in the past are done too.

Now another player much more evil has emerged in Afghanistan, ISIS...

So Iran being a shrewd state has been making overturns to the Taliban for its own national interests.
 
and iran was a sunni state long time ago.read your history.read about ottoman empire.your eyes will blink.lol
So what???
what this have with my sentence ???
you cowardly want to deport Pakistani citizen and then talking about how Pakistan is united and strong.
 
So Iran being a shrewd state has been making overturns to the Taliban for its own national interests.
Will do a search about it but as you said ISIS danger is upon us in the boundaries with Afghanistan. This hole called Afghanistan has a cancer within, USA. They are training ISIS militants and i have heard from our military commanders, USA is transferring ISIS militants from Afghanistan to Syria. It is a multi national group
Seriously, we need to work together in this issue
 
So what???
what this have with my sentence ???
you cowardly want to deport Pakistani citizen and then talking about how Pakistan is united and strong.

the land of iran and persian have a long history.caliph Umar ibn Al-Khattāb conquered your land which you are now calling iran.please read history. yes we must deport every illegal iranian in our country.we don't want hate in our country.
 
I found this to be a very good analysis on Saudi efforts to foment terrorism in Sistan & Balouchestan and also Khuzestan province.

It is also interesting to read about the negative Saudi attitude towards Chabahar, which i was not aware of before. I suggest reading through the journal article by the so called "AGCIS" (the link can be found in the article below).

Pakistan caught in the middle as China’s OBOR becomes Saudi-Iranian-Indian battleground
05/05/2017

By James M. Dorsey

Pakistani General Raheel Sharif walked into a hornet’s nest when he stepped off a private jet in Riyadh two weeks ago to take command of a Saudi-led, 41-nation military alliance. Things have gone from bad to worse since.

General Shareef had barely landed when Saudi Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman dashed the Pakistani’s hopes to include Iran in the alliance that nominally was created to fight terrorism rather than confront Iran.

The general’s hopes were designed to balance Pakistan’s close alliance with Saudia Arabia with the fact that it shares a volatile border with Iran and is home to the world’s second largest Shiite Muslim community. General Sharif’s ambition had already been rendered Mission Impossible before he landed with Saudi Arabia charging that Iran constitutes the world’s foremost terrorist threat.

In a recent interview with the Saudi-owned Middle East Broadcasting television network, Prince Mohammed, who also serves as the kingdom’s defense minister, has toughened Saudi Arabia’s stance. Prince Mohammed appeared in line with statements by a senior US military official to hold out the possibility of exploiting aspirations of ethnic minorities in Iran to weaken its Islamic regime.

In doing so, Prince Mohammed and General Joseph L. Voltel, head of US Central Command, seemed to raise the spectre of increased violence in Balochistan, a volatile, once independent region that straddles both sides of the Iranian-Pakistani border, as well as in the Iranian province of Khuzestan, the Islamic republic’s oil-rich region that is home to Iranians of Arab descent.

Ethnic and sectarian proxy wars could embroil rivals China and India in the Saudi-Iranian dispute. The deep-sea port of Gwadar in Balochistan is a lynchpin of China’s One Belt, One Road initiative, and a mere 70 kilometres from the Indian-backed port of Chabahar in Iran, viewed by Saudi Arabia as a potential threat to one of the most important sea routes facilitating the flow of oil from the Gulf to Asia.

The risk of China’s initiative as well as its regional rivalry with India becoming a Saudi-Iranian battleground appeared to increase with Prince Mohammed’s warning that the battle between the two regional powers would be fought “inside Iran, not in Saudi Arabia.”

In his interview, Prince Mohammed not only ruled out talks with Iran but painted the two countries’ rivalry in sectarian terms. The prince asserted that Iran, a predominantly Shiite country, believes that “the Imam Mahdi (the redeemer) will come and they must prepare the fertile environment for the arrival of the awaited Mahdi and they must control the Muslim world…. “How do you have a dialogue with this?” Prince Mohammed asked.

Saudi Arabia had already signalled its support for Iranian dissidents when last July former Saudi intelligence chief and ambassador to the United States and Britain, Prince Turki al-Faisal, attended a rally in Paris organized by the exiled People’s Mujahedin Organization of Iran or Mujahedin-e-Khalq, a militant left-wing group that advocates the overthrow of Iran’s Islamic regime and traces its roots to resistance against the shah who was toppled in the 1979 revolution. “Your legitimate struggle against the (Iranian) regime will achieve its goal, sooner or later. I, too, want the fall of the regime,” Prince Turki told the rally.

Since then, General Voltel, avoiding any reference to sectarianism, told the US Senate Armed Services Committee, that “in order to contain Iranian expansion, roll back its malign influence, and blunt its asymmetric advantages, we must engage them more effectively in the ‘grey zone’ through means that include a strong deterrence posture, targeted counter-messaging activities, and by building partner nations’ capacity… (We) believe that by taking proactive measures and reinforcing our resolve we can lessen Iran’s ability to negatively influence outcomes in the future.,” General Voltel said.

Prince Mohammed did not spell out how he intends to take Saudi Arabia’s fight to Iran, but a Saudi think tank, the Arabian Gulf Centre for Iranian Studies (AGCIS) argued in a recent study that Chabahar posed “a direct threat to the Arab Gulf states” that called for “immediate counter measures.”

Written by Mohammed Hassan Husseinbor, identified as an Iranian political researcher, the study, published in the first edition of AGCIS’ Journal of Iranian Studies, argued that Chabahar posed a threat because it would enable Iran to increase greater market share in India for its oil exports at the expense of Saudi Arabia, raise foreign investment in the Islamic republic and increase government revenues, and allow Iran to project power in the Gulf and the Indian Ocean.

Mr. Husseinbor suggested Saudi support for a low-level Baloch insurgency in Iran could serve as a countermeasure. “Saudis could persuade Pakistan to soften its opposition to any potential Saudi support for the Iranian Baluch... The Arab-Baluch alliance is deeply rooted in the history of the Gulf region and their opposition to Persian domination,” Mr. Husseinbor said.

Noting the vast expanses of Iran’s Sistan and Baluchestan Province, Mr. Husseinbor went on to say that “it would be a formidable challenge, if not impossible, for the Iranian government to protect such long distances and secure Chabahar in the face of widespread Baluch opposition, particularly if this opposition is supported by Iran’s regional adversaries and world powers.”

The conservative Washington-based Hudson Institute, which is believed to have developed close ties to the Trump administration, has also taken up the theme of ethnic minorities in Iran. The institute has scheduled a seminar for later this month that features as speakers Baloch, Iranian Arab, Iranian Kurdish and Iranian Azerbaijani nationalists.

Saudi Arabia may already have the building blocks in place for a proxy war in Balochistan. Saudi-funded ultra-conservative Sunni Muslim madrassas operated by anti-Shiite militants dominate Balochistan’s educational landscape.

“A majority of Baloch schoolchildren go to madrassas. They are in better condition than other schools in Balochistan. Most madrassas are operated by Deobandis and Ahl-i-Hadith,” said one of the founders of Sipah-i-Sabaha, a virulent anti-Shiite group that is believed to enjoy Saudi and Pakistani support.

Although officially renamed Ahle Sunnah Wa Al Jamaat after Sipah was banned in Pakistan, the group is still often referred to by its original name. The co-founder, who has since left the group but maintains close ties to it, was referring to the Deobandi sect of Islam, a Saudi backed ultra-conservative, anti-Shiite movement originally established in India in the 19th century to counter British colonial rule, and Ahl-i-Hadith, the religious-political group in Pakistan with the longest ties to the kingdom. The co-founder said the mosques funnelled Saudi funds to the militants.

The co-founder said the leaders in Balochistan of Sipah and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ), a Sipah offshoot, Maulana Ramzan Mengal and Maulana Wali Farooqi, enjoyed government and military protection because their anti-Shiite sentiments made them targets for Iran. He said the two men, who maintained close ties to Saudi Arabia, travelled in Balochistan in convoys of up to ten vehicles that included Pakistan military guards. Policemen stand guard outside Mr. Mengal’s madrassa, the co-founder said.

“Ramzan gets whatever he needs from the Saudis,” the co-founder said. Close relations between Sipah and LeJ, on the one hand, and pro-government tribesmen in Balochistan complicate irregular government efforts to reign in the militants. So does the militant’s involvement in drugs smuggling that gives them an independent source of funding.

Iran has accused the United States, Saudi Arabia and Pakistani intelligence of supporting anti-Iranian militants in Balochistan, including Jundallah (Soldiers of God), an offshoot of Sipah. Jundallah, founded by Abdolmalek Rigi, a charismatic member of a powerful Baloch tribe, was one of several anti-Iranian groups that enjoyed US and Saudi support as part of US President George W. Bush’s effort to undermine the government in Tehran.

Mr. Rigi was captured when a flight he took from the Kyrgyz capital of Bishkek to Dubai was diverted at Iran’s request to Sharjah in 2010. He was executed in Iran. Pakistani forces have at times cooperated with Iran in detaining militants, including Mr. Rigi’s brother, Abdolhamid Rigi, but have often insisted that they are overwhelmed by internal security problems, and could not prioritize securing the border with the Islamic republic. “Our policy has been consistently anti-Iran,” said Khalid Ahmad, an author and journalist who focuses on militants.

Jundullah’s US contact point in the early 2000s was reported to be Thomas McHale, a 56-year-old hard-charging, brusque and opinionated Port Authority of New York and New Jersey detective and former ironworker, who had travelled to Pakistan and Afghanistan as part of his work for a Joint Terrorism Task Force in Newark. Known for his disdain for bureaucratic restrictions, Mr. McHale maintained contact with Jundallah and members of the Rigi tribe in an off-the-books operation.

Mr. McHale, a survivor of the 1993 attack on New York’s World Trade Towers, had made a name for himself by rescuing survivors of the 9/11 attack on the towers. He played himself in Oliver Stone’s movie, World Trade Center, in which Nicolas Cage starred as a Port Authority police officer.

Jundallah ambushed a motorcade of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2005 but failed to kill him.

Mr. Rigi’s boyish, grinning face became as a result of the ambush the defining image of Baluch jihad in Iran. A year later, the group bombed a bus carrying Iranian Revolutionary Guards. Jundallah and associated groups such as Jaish al-Adly (Army of Justice), another Sipah offshoot, have since targeted Iranian border posts, Revolutionary Guards, police officers, convoys and Shiite mosques.

General Sharif and Pakistan’s position were not made easier with the recent killing by Jaish al Adl militants operating from Pakistani Balochistan of ten Iranian border guards and with Iran’s expressions of displeasure with the general’s appointment as commander of the Saudi-led military alliance.

US officials insisted in Mr. McHale’s time that government agencies had not directed or ever approved Jundallah operations. The US designated Jundallah as a terrorist organization in 2010, but that did not stop Sunni Muslim militant anti-Iranian operations. In what analysts see as an indication of Saudi influence, Jaish al-Adel issues its statements in Arabic rather than Baluchi or Farsi.

In response, Iran has attacked the militants and raided villages in Balochistan. Arif Saleem, a 42-year old villager recalls being woken in the wee hours of the morning in November 2013 when bombs dropped just outside the mud walls that surround his family compound in Kulauhi, 67 kilometres from the Pakistani border with Iran. Located in a district that is an epicentre of a low-level proxy war with Iran, Kulauhi’s residents survive on subsistence farming and smuggling. “Some buildings collapsed. Luckily, none of the kids were inside those. The blast was so strong, we thought the world was ending,” said Saleem, convinced that Iranian planes from an airbase on the Iranian side of the border carried out the bombing.

The spectre of ethnic proxy wars threatens to further destabilize the Gulf as well as Pakistan. The Baloch insurgency in Pakistani Balochistan has complicated Chinese plans to develop Gwadar and forced Pakistan to take extraordinary security precautions. A stepped-up proxy war could embroil Indian-backed Chabahar in the conflict. The wars could, moreover, spread to Iran’s Khuzestan and Saudi Arabia’s Eastern Province.

Writing in 2012 in Asharq Al Awsat, a Saudi newspaper, Amal Al-Hazzani, an academic who has since been dropped from the paper’s roster after she wrote positively about Israel, asserted in an op-ed entitled “The oppressed Arab district of al-Ahwaz“ that “the al-Ahwaz district in Iran...is an Arab territory... Its Arab residents have been facing continual repression ever since the Persian state assumed control of the region in 1925... It is imperative that the Arabs take up the al-Ahwaz cause, at least from the humanitarian perspective.” Other Arab commentators have since opined in a similar fashion.

Fuelling ethnic tensions risks Iran responding in kind. Saudi Arabia has long accused Iran of instigating low level violence and protests in its predominantly Shiite oil-rich Eastern Province as well as being behind the brutally squashed popular revolt in majority Shiite Bahrain and intermittent violence since. Rather than resolving conflicts, a Saudi-Iranian war fought with ethnic and religious proxies threatens to escalate violence in both the Gulf and South Asia.

Wrong and it is Iran first who deny this offer. Stop putting blame on KSA for your own doing. We have a thread running for this topic
 
Will do a search about it but as you said ISIS danger is upon us in the boundaries with Afghanistan. This hole called Afghanistan has a cancer within, USA. They are training ISIS militants and i have heard from our military commanders, USA is transferring ISIS militants from Afghanistan to Syria. It is a multi national group
Seriously, we need to work together in this issue

I doubt it.

But I do think it's partly due to Afghan govts fault.

If you had been following some news lately.

It's noticeable that even a lot of Pakistani Taliban (in Afghanistan) have pledged allegiance to Isis. Apart from the breakout Taliban factions.

The Afghan govt allowed these people to use their soil thinking they could keep them on a leash to be used against Pak.. and now they have turned on them.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom