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Pakistan and Israel

mughaljee said:
The Holly Quran words,
They can't be your friends.
Click to expand...

Mughaljee---son---sometimes put the effort to write more than two lines. It won't hurt---maybe some enlightened thoughts may prop up. Thankyou.
 
lionheartsalahudin said:
In my opinion Israel is a definite enemy ,and is responsible for the emergence of extremist Islamic movements due to its hegemonic and trigger happy approach ,Jerusalem is a city worth fighting for and laying life for to regain Jerusalem and asqa mosque would be a great honour for any muslim.
Now coming down to why arabs lost every offensive war against Israel bcuz they were not religiously motivated their motivation was arab nationalism,nationalism might work when u have technological advantage over enemy viceversa it is suicide men no matter how patriotic they might be, have their limits when it comes to nationalistic approach towards war of aggression,so after defeat in few battles they loose their will to fight ,kill and sacrificeTheir lives for a victory and glory that they might not see. In a defensive war patriotism is a plus point in war of aggression it has limits rest u can fill it in.
Coming down to Pakistan and why it is considered a threat to Israel by Zionists,bcuz from the beginning Pakistan is a an ideological state formed on the basis of religion,not race,not region,not financial interests,so basically every Pakistani muslim feels obliged and connected to the ummah(the global brotherhood of islam),moreover the founder of Pakistan in one of his speech said “Pakistan is the fort of islam” further incorporating into Pakistani muslims that u have too look after the whole ummah!
IMO without islam there would,nt be any urge for a muslim homeland in subcontinent and without its derive no homeland would have been achieved ,all those liberals who think they can turn Pakistan into secular state will have to face 90percent of pakistan’s population ,back to the topic as there is a huge bonding of Pakistanis with the ummah and its affairs ,any one who hurts the ummah hurts Pakistanis anyone who is friend of the ummah is the friend of pakistani’s and I stress Pakistani’s not the government,I challenge anyone politican to come out in the open and say to pakistani’s lets befriend Israel,and u will see what will happen to him ,and then try the other way around that we are going to attack Israel so start joining the army and then see the turn out,we pakistani’s at the core are emotional people,so u liberals just keep ur dumb advice to urself or say it out abroad don’t even dare to say that in pak.
My conclusion why arabs lost wars is becauz of their nationalist motivation,why Pakistani muslims will win the war is religious motivation ,we will be ready to run millions of volunteers even poorly armed voluntarily into Jerusalem (think Stalingrad 2nd ww but attacking not defending) bcuz they will know if they free Jerusalem into muslim hands for the sake of ALLAH they will have eternal rewards even if they sacrifice themselves doing it,Death to Israel and all those pakistanis who think they can befriend israel they are enemies within go live in a secular country,and inshallah if religion is the motivation then u will see swarms of muslims from every country joining us even if not their gvts,LONG LIVE PAKISTAN death to Israeli puppets TTP!&other sponsors.:pakistan:
Click to expand...



Hi,

You name yourself Salahuddin---from your article it seems like you have no clue who Salahuddin was or what he stood for---maybe you need to spend sometime and study salahuddin in detail---.

If you want to go to war---you have to prepare yourself for war---you have to have that exceptional drive, the energy and mental toughness to understand the enemy and the enemy's resourcefulness. Then you have to prepare yourself to combat the opposition.

The arabs never had it in them to fight a war against israel. Possibly there is a GENETIC link missing or it has disappeared somewhere along the lines..

Nationalism and patriotism will only get you to the line in front of the army recruitment office---after that it is not worth anything---it is trainign training and training with the right kind of leadership that will make the difference.
 
nightcrawler
&
AZADPAKISTAN2009
&
fhassan

Quote:
,
Who wants to befriend USA but you are not going anywhere without them!! Israeil really want Pakistan to help it out for a kind off peace treaty b/w Israeil & Arabs I daresay Israeil will welcome Pakistan if Pakistan helped it to survive peacefully in a danger zone of Arabs & in the same time Palestinian issue may be resolved.

Pakistani People don't need any kind of help from USA ....it is only our corrupt politicians who need $$$..

Quote:
Not quite, what the Qur'an says is very interesting Indeed:

As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably.

God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers!

(Quran 60:8-9)

I can't argue with that; nor could any sane person.


Israel did not fight against Pakistan thats trure.. but ISRAEL fought against "Muslims". and above verse says " who did not fight against you" means who did not fight against Muslims"...it doesn't matter from which country they belong.

try to understand the meaning of the verse when Allah said "you" it means "Muslims" not Pakistani if you think Israel did not fight against Pakistan..so it is okay to take them as a friend?..then you are wrong..

read the verse again..

God only forbids you[muslims] to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you[muslims] because of [your [muslims] faith, and drive you [muslim] forth from your[muslims] homelands, or aid [others] in driving you[muslimss] forth: and as for those [from among you[muslim]] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers!

Quote:
8جن لوگوں نے تم سے دین کے بارے میں جنگ نہیں کی اور نہ تم کو تمہارے گھروں سے نکالا ان کے ساتھ بھلائی اور انصاف کا سلوک کرنے سے خدا تم کو منع نہیں کرتا۔ خدا تو انصاف کرنے والوں کو دوست رکھتا ہے

9خدا ان ہی لوگوں کے ساتھ تم کو دوستی کرنے سے منع کرتا ہے جنہوں نے تم سے دین کے بارے میں لڑائی کی اور تم کو تمہارے گھروں سے نکالا اور تمہارے نکالنے میں اوروں کی مدد کی۔ تو جو لوگ ایسوں سے دوستی کریں گے وہی ظالم ہیں

1-Haven't Israelis fought against Muslims ?
2- Haven't Israelis driven Muslims out of their homes?

okay now check the list of wars
Wars of Israel


Quote:
The violent confrontations which appear in this list were recognized as wars by the Defense Minister of Israel:

1948 War of Independence (November 1947 - July 1949),
(1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
The Sinai War (October 1956) - .
(Suez Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Six-Day War (June 1967) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War)- fought between Israel (Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and Arab (Arab people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) neighbors Egypt (Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), Jordan (Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and Syria (Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
War of Attrition (1968-1970) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition)- a limited war (Limited war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) fought between the Israeli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)military and forces of the Egyptian Republic (Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia),
Yom Kippur War (October 1973) .
Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
First Lebanon War (1982) (1982 Lebanon War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) - began in 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces (Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) invaded southern Lebanon (Southern Lebanon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
Second Lebanon War (summer 2006) -
(2006 Lebanon War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
^^these are the Israelis sources...and what they did in wars everybody knows...

Read Israel's illegal occupation


Quote:
Israeli settlements

Quote:
are Israeli civilian communities in the Israeli-occupied territories (lands that were captured from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War).[1] Such settlements currently exist in the West Bank,[2] East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. The latter two areas are governed under Israeli civil law but are considered to be under military occupation by the international community
(Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(East Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(Golan Heights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(Military occupation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(International community - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

On 18 November 2009, the United States voiced their dismay at the approved by the Israel's interior ministry of 900 additional housing units at a Jewish settlement in East Jerusalem. A White House spokesman said the move makes it "more difficult" to revive Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. Settlements on occupied territory are considered illegal under international law!
(Israeli settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Quote:
Now, it is up to you to judge whether or not Israel meets the criteria with whom friendship is forbidden.

yes they fought with Muslims...


Quote:
It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allâh forbids you to befriend them And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zâlimûn (wrong-doers those who disobey Allâh){60:9}..

Quote:
Islam does not disallow friendship with Jews or Christians just because they happen to be Jews or Christians.

Only those Jews or Christians who don't support Israel..and they are very less...and most of them don't live in ISRAEL..
these Jews are also against of "the whole state of Israel"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
:-)pakistan:Insha Allah Next time updated)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So all Israeli Jews are enemies?
The state maybe but certainly not all the Israelis.

You have to remember that it is not a very simple conflict and if you dig deep into the annals of history you shall see very ugly facts about Arab backbiting and backstabbing which practically derailed the Palestinian cause...the ugly fact is that there is too much disunity in the ranks of the Arabs over this...had they adhered to the U.N. Partition plan they may have been better off...still let us hope they reach a conclusion.
Out of all Arab countries Egypt gave Israel the toughest time but they also realized that Palestinian cause is not being helped in anyway by being hostile towards Israel...

It is a sad fate and i personally hold many in Israeli government and institutes responsible for a lot of atrocities but that does not mean the common Israeli Jews are all our enemies.
Such generalizations are not accurate because it takes a lot from someone to be declared an enemy of the righteous as per the Quran...

The suicide bombings and such extremist acts have only made the situation for the Muslims worse.
When people justify terrorism in the name of Islam then there is much more than simple right or wrong.

What right did the Palestinians have to destabilize Jordan?
They created a state within a state in Jordan and became miscreants in the land of their own Muslim brothers who were hosting them...this resulted in a huge conflict in 1970 also famously known as the black September...what do you call that?
History is full of petty politics over this cause and countries like Jordan, Syria and Egypt not seeing eye to eye.
PLO did a lot of damage to their cause and the damage i am afraid has been done only too well...

This does not absolve the Israeli state of its humanitarian crimes...however i am just saying that Muslims did a lot of damage to themselves and it is about time we realize that it is not violence which shall end this suffering but reform and organization.

It is not like there were no military solutions being sought by the Arab countries but it all failed...in the end we have to adopt a better means to end this perpetual conflict.

Even Salahuddin was not shy of seeking truce and mutual give and take was part of such agreements.
In simplicity all the crusaders were invaders so were all his enemies, but that did not mean that he ignore the ground realities and so he treated with them to reach some sort of arrangement, it is called diplomacy and is not just for the non Muslims.

Richard slaughtered hundreds of innocent Muslim civilian prisoners (of the fallen city of Acre) when Salahuddin did not agree to some terms he was offering...this put Salahuddin off tremendously for many weeks who was furious but eventually as the conflict prolonged he did indeed enter into a peace treaty with Richard who was the aggressor....indeed if Salahuddin did it for the greater good then we can also treat with any party no matter how unpopular, in order to ensure a peaceful co existence for all...is it not what the priority is?

The fact that the Palestinian leaders are themselves at each others throats, split into factions and not coherent in their line of thought and action is making it very difficult for anyone to help them.
 
Two different forces both are strong in there place perhaps one more hi tech then the other then perhaps one is more braver then the other .. anyhow why have topics about Pakistan & Israel ? we have nothing to do with them & they have nothing to with us.. but one thing is forsure iam sure they know we are know cowards & they also know the high standard & might of our forces .
 
All-Green said:
So all Israeli Jews are enemies?
The state maybe but certainly not all the Israelis.

You have to remember that it is not a very simple conflict and if you dig deep into the annals of history you shall see very ugly facts about Arab backbiting and backstabbing which practically derailed the Palestinian cause...the ugly fact is that there is too much disunity in the ranks of the Arabs over this...had they adhered to the U.N. Partition plan they may have been better off...still let us hope they reach a conclusion.
Out of all Arab countries Egypt gave Israel the toughest time but they also realized that Palestinian cause is not being helped in anyway by being hostile towards Israel...

It is a sad fate and i personally hold many in Israeli government and institutes responsible for a lot of atrocities but that does not mean the common Israeli Jews are all our enemies.
Such generalizations are not accurate because it takes a lot from someone to be declared an enemy of the righteous as per the Quran...

The suicide bombings and such extremist acts have only made the situation for the Muslims worse.
When people justify terrorism in the name of Islam then there is much more than simple right or wrong.

What right did the Palestinians have to destabilize Jordan?
They created a state within a state in Jordan and became miscreants in the land of their own Muslim brothers who were hosting them...this resulted in a huge conflict in 1970 also famously known as the black September...what do you call that?
History is full of petty politics over this cause and countries like Jordan, Syria and Egypt not seeing eye to eye.
PLO did a lot of damage to their cause and the damage i am afraid has been done only too well...

This does not absolve the Israeli state of its humanitarian crimes...however i am just saying that Muslims did a lot of damage to themselves and it is about time we realize that it is not violence which shall end this suffering but reform and organization.

It is not like there were no military solutions being sought by the Arab countries but it all failed...in the end we have to adopt a better means to end this perpetual conflict.

Even Salahuddin was not shy of seeking truce and mutual give and take was part of such agreements.
In simplicity all the crusaders were invaders so were all his enemies, but that did not mean that he ignore the ground realities and so he treated with them to reach some sort of arrangement, it is called diplomacy and is not just for the non Muslims.

Richard slaughtered hundreds of innocent Muslim civilian prisoners (of the fallen city of Acre) when Salahuddin did not agree to some terms he was offering...this put Salahuddin off tremendously for many weeks who was furious but eventually as the conflict prolonged he did indeed enter into a peace treaty with Richard who was the aggressor....indeed if Salahuddin did it for the greater good then we can also treat with any party no matter how unpopular, in order to ensure a peaceful co existence for all...is it not what the priority is?

The fact that the Palestinian leaders are themselves at each others throats, split into factions and not coherent in their line of thought and action is making it very difficult for anyone to help them.
Click to expand...

Israel is enemy of muslim ummah , it is clear no need any explaination, i dont agree with you if you are telling that make your enemy your friend if he is power full.

But we have to learn lesson from them that their population is only 30 million , how many noble prices jews won and how many muslims won having population of 1.5 Billion?

We should gain knowledge to defeat their anti muslim ummah plans , you know very well they are controlling finance ,media and politicians of US only super power , but soon they will be responsible for distruction of USA due to their distructive idealogy and capitalist instrest based economy with which Allah always at war.

We have to boycot all their products and banks to resist their human right violation in Palestine and try to understand their game in middle east and central asia to capture oil resources and sea trade routes.
 
Fundamentalist said:
Israel is enemy of muslim ummah , it is clear no need any explaination, i dont agree with you if you are telling that make your enemy your friend if he is power full.

But we have to learn lesson from them that their population is only 30 million , how many noble prices jews won and how many muslims won having population of 1.5 Billion?

We should gain knowledge to defeat their anti muslim ummah plans , you know very well they are controlling finance ,media and politicians of US only super power , but soon they will be responsible for distruction of USA due to their distructive idealogy and capitalist instrest based economy with which Allah always at war.

We have to boycot all their products and banks to resist their human right violation in Palestine and try to understand their game in middle east and central asia to capture oil resources and sea trade routes.
Click to expand...

It's not just about gaining knowledge... we have the knowledge... it's about getting up and actually doing something with the knowledge.
 
Conqueror said:
Quraan - Aal-e-Imran, verse No. 148-149.
مومنو! اگر تم کافروں کا کہا مان لو گے تو وہ تم کو الٹے پاؤں پھیر کر (مرتد کر) دیں گے پھر تم بڑے خسارے میں پڑ جاؤ گے (۱۴۹) (یہ تمہارے مددگار نہیں ہیں) بلکہ خدا تمہارا مددگار ہے اور وہ سب سے بہتر مددگار ہے

No my friend, we are better off without making friendship with Israel and expecting any assistance in our defense from them. God has stated in the book and there is no one wiser than God.
Click to expand...

What does it mean? Pakistan should hate Israel?
 
mughaljee said:
nightcrawler
&
AZADPAKISTAN2009
&
fhassan

Quote:
,
Who wants to befriend USA but you are not going anywhere without them!! Israeil really want Pakistan to help it out for a kind off peace treaty b/w Israeil & Arabs I daresay Israeil will welcome Pakistan if Pakistan helped it to survive peacefully in a danger zone of Arabs & in the same time Palestinian issue may be resolved.

Pakistani People don't need any kind of help from USA ....it is only our corrupt politicians who need $$$..

Quote:
Not quite, what the Qur'an says is very interesting Indeed:

As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably.

God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers!

(Quran 60:8-9)

I can't argue with that; nor could any sane person.


Israel did not fight against Pakistan thats trure.. but ISRAEL fought against "Muslims". and above verse says " who did not fight against you" means who did not fight against Muslims"...it doesn't matter from which country they belong.

try to understand the meaning of the verse when Allah said "you" it means "Muslims" not Pakistani if you think Israel did not fight against Pakistan..so it is okay to take them as a friend?..then you are wrong..

read the verse again..

God only forbids you[muslims] to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you[muslims] because of [your [muslims] faith, and drive you [muslim] forth from your[muslims] homelands, or aid [others] in driving you[muslimss] forth: and as for those [from among you[muslim]] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers!

Quote:
8جن لوگوں نے تم سے دین کے بارے میں جنگ نہیں کی اور نہ تم کو تمہارے گھروں سے نکالا ان کے ساتھ بھلائی اور انصاف کا سلوک کرنے سے خدا تم کو منع نہیں کرتا۔ خدا تو انصاف کرنے والوں کو دوست رکھتا ہے

9خدا ان ہی لوگوں کے ساتھ تم کو دوستی کرنے سے منع کرتا ہے جنہوں نے تم سے دین کے بارے میں لڑائی کی اور تم کو تمہارے گھروں سے نکالا اور تمہارے نکالنے میں اوروں کی مدد کی۔ تو جو لوگ ایسوں سے دوستی کریں گے وہی ظالم ہیں

1-Haven't Israelis fought against Muslims ?
2- Haven't Israelis driven Muslims out of their homes?

okay now check the list of wars
Wars of Israel


Quote:
The violent confrontations which appear in this list were recognized as wars by the Defense Minister of Israel:

1948 War of Independence (November 1947 - July 1949),
(1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
The Sinai War (October 1956) - .
(Suez Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Six-Day War (June 1967) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War)- fought between Israel (Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and Arab (Arab people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) neighbors Egypt (Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), Jordan (Jordan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and Syria (Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
War of Attrition (1968-1970) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Attrition)- a limited war (Limited war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) fought between the Israeli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)military and forces of the Egyptian Republic (Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia),
Yom Kippur War (October 1973) .
Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
First Lebanon War (1982) (1982 Lebanon War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) - began in 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces (Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) invaded southern Lebanon (Southern Lebanon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
Second Lebanon War (summer 2006) -
(2006 Lebanon War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
^^these are the Israelis sources...and what they did in wars everybody knows...

Read Israel's illegal occupation


Quote:
Israeli settlements

Quote:
are Israeli civilian communities in the Israeli-occupied territories (lands that were captured from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War).[1] Such settlements currently exist in the West Bank,[2] East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. The latter two areas are governed under Israeli civil law but are considered to be under military occupation by the international community
(Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(East Jerusalem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(Golan Heights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(Military occupation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
(International community - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

On 18 November 2009, the United States voiced their dismay at the approved by the Israel's interior ministry of 900 additional housing units at a Jewish settlement in East Jerusalem. A White House spokesman said the move makes it "more difficult" to revive Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. Settlements on occupied territory are considered illegal under international law!
(Israeli settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Quote:
Now, it is up to you to judge whether or not Israel meets the criteria with whom friendship is forbidden.

yes they fought with Muslims...


Quote:
It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allâh forbids you to befriend them And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zâlimûn (wrong-doers those who disobey Allâh){60:9}..

Quote:
Islam does not disallow friendship with Jews or Christians just because they happen to be Jews or Christians.

Only those Jews or Christians who don't support Israel..and they are very less...and most of them don't live in ISRAEL..
these Jews are also against of "the whole state of Israel"
HIrmrdGIFtI[/media] - Rabbi burns Israeli passport at London Demo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
:-)pakistan:Insha Allah Next time updated)
Click to expand...


Inded its the state of israel that is evil not all the people no doubt most of them are very nice and decent , loving etc i have worked with them and still do. Haterd is on both sides iam sorry i play fair peace needs to happen perhaps not for the sake of friendship but the sake of stoping the bloodshed . But anyhow this video is really funny hahahaha somoene should send it to the Gov if Israel :cheesy::lol:
 
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