PAK-FA’s Asian export hopes stymied by lack of ‘fifth-generation’ qualities

[INDIAPOSITIVE]

SOURCE: IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly

The presence of the US Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor at the 2016 Singapore Airshow, and statements from the company about future demand in Asia for more F-35 models to be procured have highlighted the interest in the region for fifth-generation combat aircraft.

A number of air forces have a programme to acquire a fifth-generation fighter, but what qualifies an aircraft to carry that label is a “matter of perspective,” a US industry representative told IHSJane’s.

Russian industry has consistently referred to the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA as a fifth-generation aircraft, but a careful look at the programme reveals that this is an ‘in-name-only’ designation. What qualifies a fighter aircraft as being a next-generation design is more than just having a stealthy-looking shape, said Lockheed Martin representatives.

Previously, Russian defence think-tanks had been projecting that the T-50 would be purchased by Asian nations that were already operating some model of the Sukhoi Su-27/30 ‘Flanker’-series. This would include Indonesia, Malaysia, and Vietnam. China, another major operator of Sukhoi aircraft is developing its own next-generation aircraft in the Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang FC-31.

Russian specialists familiar with the T-50 programme state that the aircraft will have trouble gaining traction in the Asian market as the on-board systems offer very little fifth-generation technologies despite what is projected to be a considerably higher price tag than the latest Su-35 ‘Flanker-E’, ordered by China and Indonesia.

Both the T-50’s NIIP Irbis radar and the NPO Saturn 117S engine that are two of the major subsystems of the T-50 are the same as those installed in the Su-35. Also, a number of the avionics on-board the T-50 and Su-35 are common. Those that will be part of the production-configuration of the T-50 will more likely than not be only incremental or evolutionary improvements over their analogues on-board the Su-35, say the same specialists.

 

[randomradio]

Both the T-50’s NIIP Irbis radar and the NPO Saturn 117S engine that are two of the major subsystems of the T-50 are the same as those installed in the Su-35. Also, a number of the avionics on-board the T-50 and Su-35 are common.

Jane's reporting has fallen considerably. They love writing anti-Russian nonsense, even if they are all lies.

 

[That Guy]

Jane's reporting has fallen considerably. They love writing anti-Russian nonsense, even if they are all lies.

From what I've read, this claim does have credibility to it. The Russians even promote the Su-35 as a pseudo-5th gen fighter, as it only lacks stealth, but has most 5th gen characteristics.

 

[Dr Gupta]

This article is very poor it does not highlight that the Russians are using what they have on the SU-35 as a testbed until the new engine transpires. Also full development will start when resources are available, let's judge this fighter in 5-8 years until then we can not say if it will be on par with the F-35.

 

[randomradio]

From what I've read, this claim does have credibility to it. The Russians even promote the Su-35 as a pseudo-5th gen fighter, as it only lacks stealth, but has most 5th gen characteristics.

If that's the case then MKI is similar to Su-35 which is similar to PAK FA, so MKI is similar to PAK FA? Make sense? There's nothing on the PAK FA that is remotely similar to Su-35. Everything's new. And the Stage 2 program will see even more new stuff.

If you convert the Indo-Russian FGFA program to PPP prices, the cost of the R&D program is $63B between the two countries. The program's astonishingly massive.

Consider nominal prices and exchange rates: [ @Picdelamirand-oil Your thoughts on this?]

In 2012, the cost of the R&D budget was $11B. 85% Russian workshare. That's 9.35B or 280B rubles. The Indian share was $1.65B or 74B INR.
2012 exchange rate: 1 USD = 30 rubles = 45 INR

In 2016, the cost of the R&D budget is $7.4B. 85% Russian workshare. That's $6.29B or 503 rubles. The Indian share is $1.11B or 75B INR.
2016 exchange rate: 1 USD = 80 rubles = 68 INR

So Indian workshare amount has remained the same while Russian workshare amount has almost doubled. The scale of the program has changed completely since 2012.

If you convert today's workshare prices to 2012 exchange rate. Then the cost of Russian workshare in USD has actually increased to $16.7B (503B divided by 30) while Indian workshare has remained the same at $1.6B. That's about $18B. Convert to PPP prices, that's $63B.

PPP multiplier for both countries is 3.5. It's slightly higher, but it's only an approximation.

PPP matters because both India and Russia are doing their respective workshares in their respective currencies.

 

[Dr Gupta]

With new radar the PAK FA fighter can detect any stealth aircraft | Russia Beyond the Headlines

Does it highlight this?

They are working on many features still... I will cast judgement when the product is finished.

 

[That Guy]

If that's the case then MKI is similar to Su-35 which is similar to PAK FA, so MKI is similar to PAK FA? Make sense? There's nothing on the PAK FA that is remotely similar to Su-35. Everything's new. And the Stage 2 program will see even more new stuff.

If you convert the Indo-Russian FGFA program to PPP prices, the cost of the R&D program is $63B between the two countries. The program's astonishingly massive.

Consider nominal prices and exchange rates: [ @Picdelamirand-oil Your thoughts on this?]

In 2012, the cost of the R&D budget was $11B. 85% Russian workshare. That's 9.35B or 280B rubles. The Indian share was $1.65B or 74B INR.
2012 exchange rate: 1 USD = 30 rubles = 45 INR

In 2016, the cost of the R&D budget is $7.4B. 85% Russian workshare. That's $6.29B or 503 rubles. The Indian share is $1.11B or 75B INR.
2016 exchange rate: 1 USD = 80 rubles = 68 INR

So Indian workshare amount has remained the same while Russian workshare amount has almost doubled. The scale of the program has changed completely since 2012.

If you convert today's workshare prices to 2012 exchange rate. Then the cost of Russian workshare in USD has actually increased to $16.7B (503B divided by 30) while Indian workshare has remained the same at $1.6B. That's about $18B. Convert to PPP prices, that's $63B.

PPP multiplier for both countries is 3.5. It's slightly higher, but it's only an approximation.

PPP matters because both India and Russia are doing their respective workshares in their respective currencies.

Whao whao whao, hold on there, cowboy.

All you're doing is posting the budget, that has nothing to do with the actual technology.

 

[Ragnar]

India will pay dearly for its reliance on this pyce of shyte Russkie ponzi scheme.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It is a mistake to underestimate the Russians. That's a lesson that history teaches time and time again.

 

[randomradio]

Whao whao whao, hold on there, cowboy.

All you're doing is posting the budget, that has nothing to do with the actual technology.

The actual technology is far beyond what's on the F-35.

ROFAR with 360 degree LoS. Adaptive engine technology. Plasma. Active cancellation. Brand new weapons, including hypersonic AAMs.

Anyway, coming to the Su-35 and the current version of PAK FA. The radars and sensors are different. The Su-35 has Irbis-E while the PAK FA has the Byelka. The OLS is also different, OLS-35 and OLS-50.

This is the Irbis-E.

This is the Byelka.

Both are completely different radars. Irbis-E is PESA. Byelka is based on GaAs AESA which will be upgraded to GaN for the production models.

And the OLS-35

OLS-50

The OLS-35 is based on older technologies while OLS-50 is QWIP.

As I said, there is no relation between Su-35 and PAK FA. And there is very little similarity between PAK FA Stage-1 and Stage-2. The Janes article is simply packed with lies.