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PAK-FA new Pic analysis

also from paralay....

Thanks for the info. I stand corrected.
It will be interesting to know how much they can match with US 5th generation fighters with different approach to stealth.
So far the 1st prototype is not fully capable but i thought prototype have to show at least 80% of the capability rather leave the work for further prototypes.
PAK-FA with full capability should be ready by 2016 without any hurdles.
 
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Their is a reason why I call you indians "pathological liars, and deluded" and at the moment you are doing quite a good job at it. :yahoo:

First off i'm not Indian; secondly, is everyone that has a deffierent view-point other than yours a pathelogical liar? If i said the SU-30mki outclasses the JF-17 and you disagree does that make you a 'pathelogical liar'?

Whats this? These are prototypes. Does that ring any bell? oh oh wait. YF-23 YF-22 and X-32 got rejected? why? they did not meet USAF,N,M requirements because these fan blades compromised their stealth capability

Wrong, the YF-23 had a smaller rcs than the YF-22; however, the YF-22 was was chosen over the YF-23 for many reasons, one being better performance.

Thats why F-35 was chosen over "X-32" with "DSI" that hides the entire fan blade completely.

You have a link saying the X-32 was rejected because of its bigger RCS? Could it have been the F-35 was chosen becuase it had better performance?



Even a 4th generation fighter has its entire fan blade hiden.

Wrong, even Tyopoon has its fan blades exposed.

And just incase you missed it the pak-fa in the picture is T-50-1, only the T-50KNS has the radar blockers and the radar blacker is said to be a coaxial labyrinth, meaning it would be covered by two radar blockers, this means the entire engine would be sheilded.
 
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The fins in front of the AL-41 are NOT angled where as the fins on the pak-fa are angled.

Got this from another forum

Insiders have spoken at Paralay's forum, and that's what they say:

* This is T-50-1, it's leaked and someone's head's gonna roll (there was another photo with bay doors opened, but it didn't spread)
* What we see is indeed the engine front: as I suspected, for the airframe testing it was decided to drop the engine shielding completely
* The configuration is nowhere close to the final, and will be changed, perhaps rather dramatically, including the shape of a duct
* The radar blocker will be installed into the intake, which is NOT the fan-like contraption we often see, but a 3D coaxial labyrinth
* The radar blocker is already designed and produced, but now is installed only on T-50-KNS, and is absent on the T-50-1
* The radar blocker significantly alters the airflow in the inlet duct and current engines on T-50-1 aren't optimized for it => power drop
* That's why it isn't installed on the airworthy prototype, which suggests that it still uses older 117S engines

So i believe i stand correct with my view that it is not the radar blocker, rather in the picture we are seeing the engine fan blades ??

Am I right Sir ??
 
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So i believe i stand correct with my view that it is not the radar blocker, rather in the picture we are seeing the engine fan blades ??

Am I right Sir ??

Accrording to the 'insiders' the pak-fa (T-50-1) in the picture has no fan blockers only the prototype (T-50-KNS) has a coaxial labyrinth type fan blocker, it's also said that a redesign in the intakes is probable, now the AL-41, nor 117s match the curved fins in the picture, so it's either a new engine or perhaps a modification that we see in the picture.
 
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Accrording to the 'insiders' the pak-fa (T-50-1) in the picture has no fan blockers only the prototype (T-50-KNS) has a coaxial labyrinth type fan blocker, it's also said that a redesign in the intakes is probable, now the AL-41, nor 117s match the curved fins in the picture, so it's either a new engine or perhaps a modification that we see in the picture.

That i read in your post, and i also said it before that this is the first prototype and let the future ones come, we will see a lot of changes and stealth features.

I need just in a yes or no answer from you to my question.

Was i right in my analysis or not, that the picture shown in this thread of the pak-Fa, has its engine fan blades exposed ??

Yes or No simple, as for my view on the topic, i got some very offensive replies making me look stupid or ignorant on the topic.

So i wanna ask you, was i right what i stated or No i was wrong.

Details i know, a simple yes or no, thanks. :)
 
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I need just in a yes or no answer from you to my question.

Was i right in my analysis or not, that the picture shown in this thread of the pak-Fa, has its engine fan blades exposed ??

If we go off of what the 'insiders' say than you were indeed CORRECT.

Yes or No simple, as for my view on the topic, i got some very offensive replies making me look stupid or ignorant on the topic.

I hope i wasn't wasn't offensive, i sure didn't mean to be.
 
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First off i'm not Indian; secondly, is everyone that has a deffierent view-point other than yours a pathelogical liar? If i said the SU-30mki outclasses the JF-17 and you disagree does that make you a 'pathelogical liar'?

.

If i was to say JF-17 is superior to MKI then i will be a pathological lair like many indians.
 
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So i believe i stand correct with my view that it is not the radar blocker, rather in the picture we are seeing the engine fan blades ??

Am I right Sir ??

yes its not stealthy when viewed from the angle ( in fornt of you)..i do see the fan blades sitting comfortable deep inside...
i guess the radars would be far below so as to detect the fan blades..
 
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...i did not get your point as how will the wheel assembly work as a blocker.
Please read what has been written so far, the landing gear causing the air intake to collapse when retracted is mere speculation on my part.
It is not so much the landing gear assembly itself but the compartment that the landing gear is stowed that protrude into the inlet duct that created a radar impediment, aka 'blocker'.

Radar engineers do not call those impediments 'blockers'. Anything that actually 'block' will reflect back and that is not what we want.

Forget about the jet engine for now, or at least the first compressor stage.

Look at the inlet ducting as a waveguide. All the positive things about waveguides as transmission conduits are negatives when it comes to RCS reduction. The result is the 'S' shape inlet ducting that either partially or completely remove the engine face from frontal view.

With the current 'stealth' fad, we have these types of inlet ducting systems:

1- Conducting where even though the inlet ducting system is materially complex, the surfaces of those materials actually assist the propagation of a radar signal, into and back out, aka 'backscatter', that greatly contribute the frontal RCS figure.

2- Lossy inlet ducting system where radar absorbing materials (RAM) covered the entire inlet ducting, covered the 'bullet' which is the nose of the jet engine itself and covered a set of fixed vanes that are angled NOT at 90deg from where the incident signal enter the last segment of the conduit prior to engine face. The fixed vanes constitute the last line of radar defense for the engine.

3- Lossy inlet ducting system that incorporate a 'splitter' plate that serves dual purpose: to affect airflow to the first stage compressor and to create an additional radar deflection surface that further reduces the energy level of the incident signal as it bounces through the conduit. Plus RAM coverage per item 2 above.

Multi-spectral air inlet shield and associated inlet structure - US Patent 7159818 Claims
...said splitter is structured to suppress radar signal return or infrared radiation.
The splitter plate must span the inlet duct and its surface must be lossy, or RAM-ed.

Most fighters have inlet ducting type 1. Inlet ducting types 2 and 3 are used when the focus is on RCS reduction, at the expense of other engine/aircraft performance parameters if necessary. Inlet ducting type 3 is the most difficult to design and implemented. If a viewer is able to see a partial engine face, the first compressor stage, then this is about airframe design that made such allowance. At this point, it is up to 'The Man' in charge if it is possible to make the inlet ducting type 2 or 3.

For waveguide properties...The closer the signal's wavelength to the physical dimensions of the conduit, the better the transmission...

Waveguides : TRANSMISSION LINES
Waveguides are metal tubes functioning as “conduits” for carrying electromagnetic waves. They are practical only for signals of extremely high frequency, where the signal wavelength approaches the cross-sectional dimensions of the waveguide.
For a jet engine inlet ducting system, long wavelengths such as those in the HF/VHF/UHF bands are ideal transmissions when those meters long signals start entering the intakes. Remember...Anything that is good and desirable in a waveguide is a no-no in RCS reduction. We want the inlet ducting to be as bad a waveguide as possible.

Now...That thing called the 'coaxial labyrinth' looks like a creative assembly of splitter plates. If this is true then it is a complex solution to compensate, for lack of a better word, for an 'inferior' inlet ducting design because of an 'inferior' airframe design. I know this is going to raise the hackles of some people here but this is the laws of physics. We do not know its protection level for the engine but we do know that it adds weight and complexity to the engine.
 
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It appears the pic may be a photoshop.

http://img440.imageshack.us/i/5618152900800montaza.jpg/

The lower pic is a pic from the engine manufacturer's website, besides the obvious similarities the shodows all match too. The only problem i see is the picture of the supposed photoshop isn't as high resolution as the pictures i posted, but i suppose digital enhancement could explain that.

Who knows what to beleive the pics i posted could be a photoshop for all i know.
 
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