Pak Army chief decides Kashmir policy not Nawaz Sharif, says secret army note

[Jade]

If it was a "integral part" then why did you go to the UN?




Am terrified

Because there is Pakistan that claims that Kashmir is disputed.

There is no need to be terrified. Don't plan any military misadventure on Kashmir. Everything should be OK.

 

[audi]

Wow quite a smart army we have there, only took them 70 odd years to figure out the obvious.

Wow, how unbiased that note must be. Somehow that is accurate assessment of the situation and holier that thou truth.

Whither the recent developments, political changes and simple bow outs of Chiefs. The assessments seem to reflect age old propaganda doctrine.

You call it propaganda, but how else do you explain the recent going-ons in LOC? On one hand, you have Nawaz Sarif being friendly to India in public. So either the Pakistani Army does things in LoC against Pak Govt wishes, or the Pak Govt statements are not honest to begin with and it is backstabbing India by talking sweet and taking different actions. 

If it was a "integral part" then why did you go to the UN?

Am terrified

It was taken to UN by Nehru to get Pakistan Occupied Kashmir back, believe it or not. He specifically asked UN to hold a plebiscite in Pak Occupied Kashmir (with the choice to join India or Pak) which was invaded by hired Pathan tribesmen. Pakistan retorted that a plebiscite should also be held in Indian Kashmir. Fast forward today, and neither has happened and status quo has prevailed for the most part.

 

[BATMAN]

What is the qualification of Nawaz Sharif to decide on any policy matter! neither does his dual national cabinet is trust worthy.

 

[Contrarian]

The funny part is

Pakistani Military is only as powerful, well funded and the most holiest of cows in Pakistan because of the continuation of the Kashmir dispute.

If the Kashmir issue is resolved - the Army would lose its hallowed status.
What do you think the real truth is @Oscar ? Just because the Army has been lying low for a while - like after the Musharraf debacle, does not mean that its core attitude has changed.

There have been instances before when the Pakistani Army has laid low, quiet, yet responded to take over with ferociousness when it felt its core interests were threatened.

On the other hand, if you are sure - to use an analogy -that the spots of the leopard have changed - then please enlighten us as to how you have come to this conclusion. I for one am trying to keep an open mind.

 

[JanjaWeed]

No wonder Kashmir situation is still where it was 60yrs ago. PA should keep hold of that decision making prowess for years to come...will help in maintaining the status-quo!

 

[BATMAN]

If Pak army had any benefits than P.Musharraf would have not went into Kargil for BBQ.

 

[SQ8]

What do you think the real truth is @Oscar ? Just because the Army has been lying low for a while - like after the Musharraf debacle, does not mean that its core attitude has changed..

IMO: Yes but not to the extent one expects, but that is impossible in the time there is given the institutionalized ruin of leadership that began with Ayub Khan. That being said, there are still good leaders and sound men who realize what is feasible and what is not. Make no mistake; "official" control and interference from the Pakistan Army of militant groups ended started 2003..However, the "phasing out" of such a widely used doctrine takes time.

Now, coming to the civilian leadership and whether it is truly in control of the Kashmir policy; the PA controls operations in Kashmir but keeps Civvy leaderhship(PM, Min Def, etc) all apprised of the situation and they are well aware of what goes on. Yes, there is still tacit overlook over Kashmir and will remain so as to ensure that India does not have peace of mind or complete consolidation of its position. The 1000 cuts policy will continue and if it takes 10 or 20 of the usual unemployed cannon fodder from AJK... so be it. That does not imply direct control or financing but it does imply not bothering the Kashmiri militants in their tasks. Its better to not have them decide to turn on the state as well and lead to a greater mess. The recent statements of Hafiz Saeed should illustrate that all is no longer well between his organization and the Army which has truly abandoned him.
So Ill state again.. the PA high command is NO longer working with militants.

With that statement. The ISI's job is protect the interests of Pakistan for which is employs both tight and loose assets(like any other agency in the world) and if needed these assets employ both tacit and arm twist tactics to ensure that certain objectives vis-a-vis their offensive actions against India(to counter theirs elsewhere) continue unabated. Most of these actions are NOT sanctioned by higher command and up to the imagination of the assets. Many of these assets have been completely distanced and disconnected since 2003.

Lets not have any illusions... this is cold war.. we are enemies.. and we do mean to cause each other harm in EVERY way possible. Till that statement is true.. there is no guilt on Pakistan nor should Pakistanis feel guilt(other than for civilian deaths) for its actions in war... all is fair regardless of the attempts by the opposite side to belittle us.

 

[Storm Force]

Keep it up boys in for one hope your army stays in control. The longer you stay away from democracy and embrace the global community the bigger the GDP gap grows between Pakistan and India. At this time the Indians carry aces be it diplomatic clout or industrial muscle foreign investment or future growth ....

 

[Contrarian]

IMO: Yes but not to the extent one expects, but that is impossible in the time there is given the institutionalized ruin of leadership that began with Ayub Khan. That being said, there are still good leaders and sound men who realize what is feasible and what is not. Make no mistake; "official" control and interference from the Pakistan Army of militant groups ended started 2003..However, the "phasing out" of such a widely used doctrine takes time.

Now, coming to the civilian leadership and whether it is truly in control of the Kashmir policy; the PA controls operations in Kashmir but keeps Civvy leaderhship(PM, Min Def, etc) all apprised of the situation and they are well aware of what goes on. Yes, there is still tacit overlook over Kashmir and will remain so as to ensure that India does not have peace of mind or complete consolidation of its position. The 1000 cuts policy will continue and if it takes 10 or 20 of the usual unemployed cannon fodder from AJK... so be it. That does not imply direct control or financing but it does imply not bothering the Kashmiri militants in their tasks. Its better to not have them decide to turn on the state as well and lead to a greater mess. The recent statements of Hafiz Saeed should illustrate that all is no longer well between his organization and the Army which has truly abandoned him.
So Ill state again.. the PA high command is NO longer working with militants.

With that statement. The ISI's job is protect the interests of Pakistan for which is employs both tight and loose assets(like any other agency in the world) and if needed these assets employ both tacit and arm twist tactics to ensure that certain objectives vis-a-vis their offensive actions against India(to counter theirs elsewhere) continue unabated. Most of these actions are NOT sanctioned by higher command and up to the imagination of the assets. Many of these assets have been completely distanced and disconnected since 2003.

Lets not have any illusions... this is cold war.. we are enemies.. and we do mean to cause each other harm in EVERY way possible. Till that statement is true.. there is no guilt on Pakistan nor should Pakistanis feel guilt(other than for civilian deaths) for its actions in war... all is fair regardless of the attempts by the opposite side to belittle us.

You misunderstood my post maybe.
That Pakistan employs terrorism to achieve strategic ends is not an issue here. I do know that Pakistan has severed many ties with terrorists, yet Pakistan has still hedged its bets and some groups still recieve State patronage. There has been limits to contact and employement of these by the PA, but they have not cut their ties completely. Whether this trend continues - of distancing the State from the terrorists - or it changes after 2014 is up in the air.

However the issue is that till now the Pakistan Army had zero civilian oversight and civilian accountability. They ran both the operations on the ground (of terrorists) and the foreign policy of Pakistan vis-a-vis Kashmir like its own Kingdom.

I am questioning whether this aspect has changed. Whether the Civilian Governments at Islamabad are now taking the decisions of the foreign policy vis-a-vis Kashmir/India or whether or not terrorists ops are still conducted. Whether For eg whether the decisions to send in a half dozen terrorists is taken by the Government instead of the Army. Or whether or not trade is to be conducted with India among many other issues.

Is the Army truly subservient to the Government in all aspects? Or are they laying low biding their time, waiting to take over the Government again?

 

[Black Widow]

If your Junta is responsible of your Good Kashmir policy..

Then the same Junta must be responsible for terrorism in Pakistan??


It's pathetic attitude, If something goes good, Bravo Fauj. If goes bad, Abuse political parties...

 

[Norphisor]

Haha that's good to hear.

 

[IND151]

Is this a news or secret by any way? 

Good thing!

Politicians of Pakistan are sell out mfs & they should be kept away from these issues. Politicians will sell anything for money...remember 92-93 & 99.

????????????

And do you believe NS could have done what he did without PA's approval in Mushy's Kargil Fiasco?

 

[Malik Usman]

Every day a new propaganda by Indians against Pakistan, they never let any day empty without writing anything against Pakistan.

 

[kurup]

Be it Pakistan army or Pakistan politicians making decisions on kashmir will have no impact on India.

Because India's policies with respect to kashmir is not going to change be it anybody on the other side .

 

[SQ8]

I am questioning whether this aspect has changed. Whether the Civilian Governments at Islamabad are now taking the decisions of the foreign policy vis-a-vis Kashmir/India or whether or not terrorists ops are still conducted. Whether For eg whether the decisions to send in a half dozen terrorists is taken by the Government instead of the Army. Or whether or not trade is to be conducted with India among many other issues.

Is the Army truly subservient to the Government in all aspects? Or are they laying low biding their time, waiting to take over the Government again?

The Army is not truly subservient ..and is. The Chief still calls shots just as the PM does. However, in most matters and in day to day operations the Army is subservient to the PM of Pakistan and are not laying low at all. They are interested in getting a democratic system going because they have realized the damage their involvement in governance has caused their own structure and war-fighting discipline. So while the current Chief has taken independent decisions when the governments moves clashed with its own ideas beyond an extent; he has left domestic policy to the civilian government. Matters such as relations with the US, India and Afghanistan are a different matter where IMO perhaps there is a trade off on the final decision as long as it meets some of the Army's own goals. But increasingly the Army is leaving these decisions more and more to the civilian government and accepts(grudgingly) even those that do not meet its ideas. Will there be another Musharraf waiting to happen? I doubt that since the Army is committed to supporting democratic process Will there be another Gen Kakar who may force a change of government if the incumbent is no longer effective or overly corrupt? That cannot be predicted.The current COAS kept quiet in perhaps one of the most corrupt periods in Pakistani history in the last government but(some say) the reason for it was his overlook of certain corrupt practices within the Army itself. Whatever the case is, the introduction of mass media has limited what the Army can get away with and as such too have decided to meet and change with the times to fit into their constitutional role.