PAF Memories: Stranded in Tripoli

[Imran Khan]

and why have we named the Lahore Stadium after Moamer Gadhafi?


Arghhhh.....

Originally Lahore Stadium, the facility was renamed in 1974 in honour of Libyan leader Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi following a speech he gave at an Organisation of the Islamic Conference meeting in favour of Pakistan's right to pursue nuclear weapons

 

[Aamir Hussain]

"Reminiscences of a Pakistani Diplomat" by Ambassador Dr. M. Shahid Amin Khan.

It is an eye opener on Libya, and Afghanistan. Do read it. Overall it is a good neraation on how our Foreign Office and policy works.

Another good book on our foreign missions is by Ambassador Jamshed Marker.

 

[For Ever Pakistan]

try it and find out

 

[Aamir Hussain]

A question better answered by "Jiyalas." not me. We are still waiting for the name change......

 

[SBD-3]

Actually the libyan attitude tuned hostile against Pakistan officially when Pakistan did not collaborated with Libya over the Atomic program as the libyans expected after allegadly financing Pakistani Atomic program. The bilatral relationships have gone cold eversince then. However, Pakistani Foriegn office is equally to blame as there has not been any effort on the part of Pakistan to reinvent bilatral relationships with at least Libya and Egypt (Syria and Iran would have come at the cost of GCC so it was always a win-lose situation).

 

[Pfpilot]

Actually the libyan attitude tuned hostile against Pakistan officially when Pakistan did not collaborated with Libya over the Atomic program as the libyans expected after allegadly financing Pakistani Atomic program. The bilatral relationships have gone cold eversince then. However, Pakistani Foriegn office is equally to blame as there has not been any effort on the part of Pakistan to reinvent bilatral relationships with at least Libya and Egypt (Syria and Iran would have come at the cost of GCC so it was always a win-lose situation).

The Pakistani government disregarded its relationships with smaller, less powerful nations over the last 30 years. Our government tends to go for the headlines, strong relationship with nations with global ambitions, who in turn value us far less. Our over dependence on such nations has led us into the corner we are in today.
If we would only have made the effort to build strong relationships with other nations in our position, and there are many; we may have had a strong and influential block to sway politics, atleast on a regional level. But relations with nations such as Libya or Egypt were never given priority.
Increasing cooperation with the Turks, on the other hand is a great step in the right direction.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

It did not start with the nuclear program but started when GoP refused to send its Army personnel to Libya to mount raids against its neighbors. Libya even tried to hire ex Army personnel as security guards and then send them off to train in deserts camps to mount actions in hostile African Nations. They were not paid salaries and were eventually held against their will until GoP through their embassy intervened and got them freed.

For record purposes, Libya never paid anything for the nuclear program -- they did promise, but never delivered any money. There were other areas where Libya loudly proclaimed support in terms of economic largess but never delivered on the promise. In fact Col. was already out of favor during Bhutto Seniors' time.

It takes two to tango!

 

[darkinsky]

A question better answered by "Jiyalas." not me. We are still waiting for the name change......

it would be better if we name it george bush stadium right??

 

[Patriot]

I am not surprised..This is common with Arabian Air Forces and that's why they get their ***** handed to them in a war.They are only good at acting like rascals on the ground.Libya really does not have a real air force so better comparison is Iraq and Egypt or Syria and all these air forces had their a$$es handed to them by Israelis or Americans.The Iraqis cowards flew their planes to Iran or buried them to save the planes from American Fighters .

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Assalam alaikum

qadhafi was a criminal otherwise the libyan public r very nice ppl

was the famous hathora group in early 80's had anything to do with libyans?

TARIQ

 

[SBD-3]

It did not start with the nuclear program but started when GoP refused to send its Army personnel to Libya to mount raids against its neighbors. Libya even tried to hire ex Army personnel as security guards and then send them off to train in deserts camps to mount actions in hostile African Nations. They were not paid salaries and were eventually held against their will until GoP through their embassy intervened and got them freed.

For record purposes, Libya never paid anything for the nuclear program -- they did promise, but never delivered any money. There were other areas where Libya loudly proclaimed support in terms of economic largess but never delivered on the promise. In fact Col. was already out of favor during Bhutto Seniors' time.

It takes two to tango!

Perhaps your points are correct, I presented what i read on this issue. Anyways, I do agree that Libyans have been fairly hostile to Pakistan, especially when Saif ul Islam pointed towards Pakistan for helping their nuclear program (Though he denied his this public statement later). The point remains, why Arab regional powers considered Pakistan as more of a competitor than a friend or brother? Historically, aside from UAE (which is also not as good a friend as it used to be) and KSA (also gone cold in current zardari regime). We dont have remarkable diplomatic/military relationships with any of these. The same goes for East Asia where we once had very good relationships with Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei. Apparently both military as well as civilian diplomats have been more busy with themselves rather than their Job....And this deadlock continues....I dont know why zardari has only three or four countries in his list of prepetual foreign visits. We have lost ample ground in both GCC and Asia, perhaps its time to regain some of friends we lost for nothing.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Your choice not mine;-)

 

[Aamir Hussain]

My friend most of relationships between countries are made around convergent issues/goals. If we do not have any convergent issues/goals, than it is rather difficult to maintain the "Brotherly" posture.

Over the years, Pakistan through it own shenanigans lost ground to others in Middle East. Some of this was purely due to short vision policies, while others were due to changed circumstances on the ground.

A clear example of our short sighted policy was our refusal/foot dragging to take part in the first Gulf War knowing full well that we will not bear the brunt of any fighting. However, our mere presence would ensure sustenance of strong "Brotherly" bond beyond the next decade or so. We made a hash out of the situations and Egyptians, and Syrians were the beneficiaries. The rest is history. Ever wonder why Syria is being given such a long leash???

A good example of changing ground realities was the Arabization of the work force. We sat on our behinds while others upgraded their relationships from labor/manpower suppliers to equipment and project implementers. We remained the Taxi drivers of the Gulf!!!! Furthermore, the quality of our manpower has been going down over the years and the cost, up. This has helped Siri Lankans and Bangladeshis etc. to make inroads into areas where we used to hold our own. The lack of skill and education has also not helped our case. The overall linkage of Pakistan with terrorism, terrorist activities and narcotics has had an immense negative impact on our "Salability" in the region. This coupled with growth of Indian economic power has just eased us out of the important positions we once held in the corridors of power in the Arab countries.

However, there is a huge issue with our Foreign Service or lack of it in ensuring strong relationships with countries which we think should have good relationship with.

 

[Windjammer]

Albeit I have once met the author when he was DPR (Air), however what I find confusing is that if the PAF had pulled out of Libya in the late 70s, then how come the Libyan authorities had asked the PAF, in mid-80s to attack US Naval ships, which were menacingly patrolling near the Libyan coast. ??!!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i found this story quite surprising.....especially if it took place in 1976; Col. Qaddafi had pretty amicable ties with the then PM Z.A. Bhutto (Libya was even supportive of our nuclear program). The militaries and governments had cordial ties at the time, so it is surprising to see the level of suspicion with which our pilots/crew were met with.

something about ''infiltrators'' ?

a rather unpredictable regime, it seems