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Our generals hide their shortfalls behind the heroism of the fighting troop

BlueDot_in_Space

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Four years ago, after the 26/11 Mumbai attack, the three service chiefs dashed off letters to the defence ministry listing out the equipment deficiencies that hamstrung their forces. Their barely disguised accusation to the politicians andbureaucrats: you have failed to equip us, so think carefully about what you ask us to do!

Pakistani generals know well that the Indian Army is unfit to take the field against them. In making this bald statement, I give away no secrets. Every effective military intelligence organisation – and Pakistan we know has one – possesses devastating compilations of our army’s crippling shortage of tank ammunition; the night-blindness of our tanks; the absence of modern artillery; our obsolete air defence network; and shortfalls in practically every parameter by which an army’s equipment readiness is gauged. All this is kept secret only from the Indian people who faithfully support their army, sending sons and daughters to die for the country, often in unnecessary ways.

Of course our army is fit for war, these patriotic citizens will say, pointing to the decades of counter-insurgency in J&K and the northeast that have claimed more soldiers’ lives than all the wars fought by independent India. But rolling back secessionism is different from fighting a full-scale war. All that is needed for counter-insurgency is excellent light infantry, and India’s infantry battalions are equal to that task. Kargil, too, was an infantry job, even if one that took all our reserves of 155-millimetre artillery shells to drive home. But full-scale war requires much more; and our mechanised forces, field artillery, air defence networks, combat engineers and logistics are woefully unequal to the task. This was true during the 1999 Kargil conflict; when India mobilised in Operation Parakram after the 2001 attacks on Parliament; it was true four years ago during 26/11; and it remains true today.



But nobody looks at this cold-eyed, because the generals hide their shortfalls behind the heroism of the fighting troops. Go through the recent media coverage of the 1962 war and, astonishingly for such an abject defeat, the army comes out smelling of lotuses, floating beatifically in the mire. Jawaharlal Nehru, Krishna Menon and B N Malik are blamed for throwing our brave jawans under the Chinese bus! Could this have happened had the generals held fast? When army chief General K S Thimayya resigned in 1959, Nehru personally intervened to minimise the damage. If a chief were to resign today over equipment shortfalls, does anyone doubt the intensity of the political inquisition that would follow?

But there is a twofold reason why army chiefs do not resign or even thump their boss’ tables. Firstly, they seem unable to contemplate giving up power and the institutionalised perks and privileges associated with senior rank. Secondly, and this is crucial, the generals know that the military, far more than the bureaucrats and politicians, is responsible for the lack of war readiness.

Take the deplorable state of affairs in the armoured corps, which operates the armoured tanks that are the cutting edge of India’s three strike corps. As this newspaper reported on Monday (“Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through T-90 purchase”, November 26, 2012), the army much prefers to buy equipment off the shelf from countries like Russia, rather than painstakingly developing and manufacturing equipment better suited for our own operating environment.

Incredibly, the army has not developed an indigenous armour philosophy in the last 65 years. Every serious army, even Israel, designs its tanks around a custom-made philosophy. Since human resources are a key constraint in tiny Israel, and distances are small, Israeli tanks are heavily armoured, lumbering vehicles where crew protection counts for more than the ability to quickly move long distances. In contrast, Russian tanks, designed to sweep rapidly through the vast expanses of Europe, are mobile, lightly armoured and have a smaller, three-man crew since a tank is expendable. The Indian Army, with one of the world’s largest fleets of 4,000 tanks, has neither an armour philosophy nor a tank design bureau that can produce indigenous designs.

The army has more generals than the Government of India has secretaries. But none, from the army chief downwards, has insisted on an armour philosophy, an essential prerequisite for an India-specific tank. Instead, the T-90 tank, designed and built for freezing Russia, is now being air-conditioned (heresy!) so that its electronics can survive the Indian summers. In an incredible moral contortion, those who back the indigenous Arjun are branded anti-national; while the generals who support the Russian T-90 style themselves as patriots!

Crafting an armour philosophy is not an intellectual feat. Three bright armoured corps colonels could do it in a week, given inputs on India’s border geography; war termination objectives; likely adversaries; the army’s manpower profile; and India’s industrial capabilities. But generations of armoured corps generals have had better things to do with their time; successive army chiefs and directors of operations and planning have been too preoccupied, or simply unconcerned, to ask why this is so.

If the army’s entire planning hierarchy has ever questioned the absence of any doctrinal coherence in the strike formations’ equipment, this has not resulted in any remedial action. But our generals believe the road to salvation passes through Moscow; respond to the challenge of indigenisation by buying more T-90s, just as the air marshals buy more and more Sukhoi-30 fighters. Does this point to Russia’s colonisation of our generals’ operational thinking, or it is just apathy and lack of professionalism? Either way, the answer is depressing.
 
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A problems in this article..
But lets go with what is correct..
It may be that India's generals( like their counterparts on the western side..perhaps on a lesser scale) get used to the perks and privileges.. and tend to make decisions that dont rock the boat too often.
And while the Indian ORBAT is fairly well outlined within the files in Pakistan's intelligence there are always black areas(and vice versa..although less so for the Indian side simply to the cultural need to brandish everything publicly).

Also, the author is pushing for the Arjun as if the program was a major success
Which it simply isnt, its overweight and over budget and over time.
In contrast to which the Tejas is a sparkling success since the product.. the aircraft ; Actually works very very well.
The Arjun has nothing, the tank is always being changed or fixed..the program is always being changed or fixed..and even when finally the Arjun mk-1 is working there are only 124 of them in contrast to a requirement of over >1000 based on the original program
A tank project that started in 74 , which was supposed to have a working prototype by 84..
ended up having two interim tanks ordered while it was still being devleoped.
First the T-72 which is in itself a pretty pathetic piece of tank was ordered as a stop-gap.. and when then Arjun was still nowhere.. the IA was forced to order T-90(based on the T-72) as a second stop gap.. plainly due to commonality and ease of procurement.

So that IA is not entirely to blame in this, the Indian bureaucracy and DRDO need to take a section of the blame.
 
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This presentation may have some confusing claims, but I suggest looking at the comment in the video for clarification.(and excuse the annoying music)
All in all,the article is a bit too harsh on the IA for its armor policy.
 
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All govt org in India are like this, the army blames babus for everything while not being answerable to anybody.
 
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A problems in this article..
But lets go with what is correct..
It may be that India's generals( like their counterparts on the western side..perhaps on a lesser scale) get used to the perks and privileges.. and tend to make decisions that dont rock the boat too often.
And while the Indian ORBAT is fairly well outlined within the files in Pakistan's intelligence there are always black areas(and vice versa..although less so for the Indian side simply to the cultural need to brandish everything publicly).

Also, the author is pushing for the Arjun as if the program was a major success
Which it simply isnt, its overweight and over budget and over time.
In contrast to which the Tejas is a sparkling success since the product.. the aircraft ; Actually works very very well.
The Arjun has nothing, the tank is always being changed or fixed..the program is always being changed or fixed..and even when finally the Arjun mk-1 is working there are only 124 of them in contrast to a requirement of over >1000 based on the original program
A tank project that started in 74 , which was supposed to have a working prototype by 84..
ended up having two interim tanks ordered while it was still being devleoped.
First the T-72 which is in itself a pretty pathetic piece of tank was ordered as a stop-gap.. and when then Arjun was still nowhere.. the IA was forced to order T-90(based on the T-72) as a second stop gap.. plainly due to commonality and ease of procurement.

So that IA is not entirely to blame in this, the Indian bureaucracy and DRDO need to take a section of the blame.

I couldn't disagree more.

First, regarding the moral background to the decisions made by successive generations of armoured corps generals, it is much more than a clutching on to power and privilege and a tendency to avoid rocking the boat that forms that background. The armaments lobby in the country is very strong, and can shake a minister in his portfolio. Generals and secretaries are daily breakfast fare.

Second, I have no comment about the ORBAT, except to say that there is not the slightest effort to think outside the lumbering clashes between Amritsar and Lahore that have formed the staple of past engagements.

Third, I wholly disagree with the view that the Arjuna programme is a failure. Considering the extra amount of engineering that had to be built in to accommodate ambient conditions in India, it is the T90 that is a failure, and is night blind as well as unfit for use in hot weather. Ergonomics is also an issue. Those who have had the opportunity to get into a T90 and into an Arjuna will readily grasp what I mean; the first is an acrobatic feat, for a very small acrobat, the second a simple, workaday procedure. One Russian general had the flipping cheek to suggest that only small men be selected for the armoured corps.

Fourth, your comparison of the LCA and the Arjuna is unfair. While I agree that the Tejas works very well, the testing cycle is not complete, and certain weapons trials are still due for execution. The IAF keeps changing goalposts, and contributes to the confusion. Meanwhile, the Arjuna is battle-worthy today.

Fifth, you mentioned the delays in development. Unfortunately, much of what went on behind the scenes, and the spirited effort by the Army to stop development in its tracks, cannot be recounted. It was much worse than the IAF attitude to the Tejas; at least the IAF never tried to sabotage the Tejas.

Sixth, the reason for 124 Arjuna tanks is not due to lack of production capability - hiving it off to a private sector organisation is always a possibility, and there are enough heavy engineering organisations that can address tank production, some of the best, surprisingly, being in Calcutta - it is due to more foot-dragging by the Army. It has got to the stage where only a thorough purge of the armoured corps will rectify things.

Seventh, I agree with you that the IA is not entirely to blame for this; that the Indian bureaucracy and DRDO need to take a section of the blame. Successive Scientific Advisors have been political in their approach, and have made weirdly unreal estimates of the time-frames involved. All those involved with GTRE should be executed, for destroying value; there are colossal blind spots in others as well, where for instance, development of advanced ground radar is not matched by any thought for the miniaturising of these for air-borne roles. \\

It is difficult to decide whether to start chopping and changing, the Indian scientific establishment, the Indian bureaucracy, or the Indian brass hats.
 
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I couldn't disagree more.

First, regarding the moral background to the decisions made by successive generations of armoured corps generals, it is much more than a clutching on to power and privilege and a tendency to avoid rocking the boat that forms that background. The armaments lobby in the country is very strong, and can shake a minister in his portfolio. Generals and secretaries are daily breakfast fare.

Second, I have no comment about the ORBAT, except to say that there is not the slightest effort to think outside the lumbering clashes between Amritsar and Lahore that have formed the staple of past engagements.

Third, I wholly disagree with the view that the Arjuna programme is a failure. Considering the extra amount of engineering that had to be built in to accommodate ambient conditions in India, it is the T90 that is a failure, and is night blind as well as unfit for use in hot weather. Ergonomics is also an issue. Those who have had the opportunity to get into a T90 and into an Arjuna will readily grasp what I mean; the first is an acrobatic feat, for a very small acrobat, the second a simple, workaday procedure. One Russian general had the flipping cheek to suggest that only small men be selected for the armoured corps.

Fourth, your comparison of the LCA and the Arjuna is unfair. While I agree that the Tejas works very well, the testing cycle is not complete, and certain weapons trials are still due for execution. The IAF keeps changing goalposts, and contributes to the confusion. Meanwhile, the Arjuna is battle-worthy today.

Fifth, you mentioned the delays in development. Unfortunately, much of what went on behind the scenes, and the spirited effort by the Army to stop development in its tracks, cannot be recounted. It was much worse than the IAF attitude to the Tejas; at least the IAF never tried to sabotage the Tejas.

Sixth, the reason for 124 Arjuna tanks is not due to lack of production capability - hiving it off to a private sector organisation is always a possibility, and there are enough heavy engineering organisations that can address tank production, some of the best, surprisingly, being in Calcutta - it is due to more foot-dragging by the Army. It has got to the stage where only a thorough purge of the armoured corps will rectify things.

Seventh, I agree with you that the IA is not entirely to blame for this; that the Indian bureaucracy and DRDO need to take a section of the blame. Successive Scientific Advisors have been political in their approach, and have made weirdly unreal estimates of the time-frames involved. All those involved with GTRE should be executed, for destroying value; there are colossal blind spots in others as well, where for instance, development of advanced ground radar is not matched by any thought for the miniaturising of these for air-borne roles. \\

It is difficult to decide whether to start chopping and changing, the Indian scientific establishment, the Indian bureaucracy, or the Indian brass hats.

But that is contrary to what the reports say on the tank.
It is overweight , which means its out of the fight in most areas of the western border..too heavy for either bridges or rail cars.
It is not air transportable by the C-17's too.

It has the issues outlined in the (cheeky but at many points accurate video)...
So it may be the Excalibur reincarnated but if the IA cannot wield it, then its useless...even with the bias against the tank thanks to the lobbies.. it is still no longer worth it.
It may be more comfortable, air conditioned and have weaponry and armor unmatched.. but when you cannot wield them , or use them. Then it ends up being nothing more than extremely expensive show pieces...even with extreme bias.. show pieces still wing over users. All reports on contemporary news items and blogs with regards to the Arjun.. even the Mk2.. suggest that while it bests the T-90 and T-72 in firing trials.. its glaring targeting and mobility issues cannot be ignored.
 
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it is the same pnt that i hav raised some days before in some other thread wht ajaishukala have written today but it is not only abt arjun but tell me guys the name of a single project in which the army pushed 4 an indigenous prdct except the akash then only after the IAF . it hadn't able to materialized a single big ticket deal till now , truly there must be smnthng very sinister is going on inside the top brass of IA. i am now looking only 1 solution 4 it the great ARVIND kejriwal :cheesy: to make some big expose against this foreign arms and against som top army general.

truly i am filling very sad abt this :cry: so gurus in this forum make som good +ve points and revive me plzzzzzzzzzzz.......
 
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But that is contrary to what the reports say on the tank.
It is overweight , which means its out of the fight in most areas of the western border..too heavy for either bridges or rail cars.
It is not air transportable by the C-17's too.

It has the issues outlined in the (cheeky but at many points accurate video)...
So it may be the Excalibur reincarnated but if the IA cannot wield it, then its useless...even with the bias against the tank thanks to the lobbies.. it is still no longer worth it.
It may be more comfortable, air conditioned and have weaponry and armor unmatched.. but when you cannot wield them , or use them. Then it ends up being nothing more than extremely expensive show pieces...even with extreme bias.. show pieces still wing over users. All reports on contemporary news items and blogs with regards to the Arjun.. even the Mk2.. suggest that while it bests the T-90 and T-72 in firing trials.. its glaring targeting and mobility issues cannot be ignored.

I dont know what reports you have been reading because Arjun has already proved its mettle against T90 in use trials (Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90).

from the above link: The Arjun tanks, the observers all agreed, performed superbly. Whether driving cross-country over rugged sand-dunes; detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets; or accurately hitting targets, both stationery and moving, with pinpoint gunnery; the Arjun demonstrated a clear superiority over the vaunted T-90.

The problem is not with Arjun, but the inertia of change in the system that has been operating russian tanks over the past long years promoted by russian lobbies. It is natural that a tank that weighs 10 Kgs more than what the IA has been operating for the last few decades will require completely new logistics setup including its transport like new rail coaches and new armoured vehicle launched bridges. This is the sole argument that has been given by the IA for not inducting Arjun in large numbers. But the argument no longer holds weight as DRDO has already developed rail wagons (BOGIE FLAT ARJUN TANK WAGON) and AVBLs (Arjun BLT Armored Bridgelayer | Military-Today.com) for transporting Arjuns and other formalities like spare parts etc can only be done when a large order is placed. Also the ground pressure of Arjun is less than that of T90. BTW C-17 can transport Abrams, so i dont think Arjun would be a problem.
 
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BlueDot_in_Space has already responded to some of your citations of the defects that seem to plague the Arjuna.

About its excess weight, ironically, the western sector (but eastern to Pakistani readers) or rather, the Indo-Pakistan border is the perfect country for these tanks. They are actually lighter on the ground than the T90, they are far, far better adapted than the T90 for life in the tropics, and they are better night-fighters, to take some casual points. There is nothing preventing the IA from deploying the T90 in the flatlands beyond Leh, on the border with Chinese Tibet, where both the climate and the size restrictions will favour this Russian tank, other than logistics. Nor from being deployed in the north-east, or in the blind zone in the centre, which almost seems to sit on its hind legs and beg for Generalfeldmarschal Alfred Graf von Schlieffen to take a look in on the way home from the club. The T90 may do better than the Arjuna everywhere but on the main battle front, assuming that it remains the main battle front rather than yielding place to the northern frontiers.

Regarding transportation, again, as BlueDot_In_Space has already pointed out, surface transportation has been fixed, and only the Army's school boyish insistence on a point that is dead and gone keeps this incompatibility with train and land transportation alive.

On every factor other than weight, the Arjuna is better than the T90. Your points about the military, bureaucratic and political leaders, however, remain valid.
 
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BlueDot_in_Space has already responded to some of your citations of the defects that seem to plague the Arjuna.

About its excess weight, ironically, the western sector (but eastern to Pakistani readers) or rather, the Indo-Pakistan border is the perfect country for these tanks. They are actually lighter on the ground than the T90, they are far, far better adapted than the T90 for life in the tropics, and they are better night-fighters, to take some casual points. There is nothing preventing the IA from deploying the T90 in the flatlands beyond Leh, on the border with Chinese Tibet, where both the climate and the size restrictions will favour this Russian tank, other than logistics. Nor from being deployed in the north-east, or in the blind zone in the centre, which almost seems to sit on its hind legs and beg for Generalfeldmarschal Alfred Graf von Schlieffen to take a look in on the way home from the club. The T90 may do better than the Arjuna everywhere but on the main battle front, assuming that it remains the main battle front rather than yielding place to the northern frontiers.

Regarding transportation, again, as BlueDot_In_Space has already pointed out, surface transportation has been fixed, and only the Army's school boyish insistence on a point that is dead and gone keeps this incompatibility with train and land transportation alive.

On every factor other than weight, the Arjuna is better than the T90. Your points about the military, bureaucratic and political leaders, however, remain valid.

exactly , we can field substantial no of arjun on western border , and develop a lighter variant for north and eastern border and till then we can have t90s ! ARJUNs all problems are due to corrupt politicians and arms lobby !
 
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In that case, the Arjun is suffering the very same effects that plagued programs like the Arrow and TSR2..
brilliant but unwanted... in the arjun's case..nobody loves it.
 
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I hope this article wakes up some sleeping people and they actually do something about it.

The IA are really not encouraging the Arjun program with order numbers.
 
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General indifference:Our generals hide their shortfalls behind the heroism of the fighting troops

Four years ago, after the 26/11 Mumbai attack, the three service chiefs dashed off letters to the defence ministry listing out the equipment deficiencies that hamstrung their forces. Their barely disguised accusation to the politicians and bureaucrats: you have failed to equip us, so think carefully about what you ask us to do!

Pakistani generals know well that the Indian Army is unfit to take the field against them. In making this bald statement, I give away no secrets. Every effective military intelligence organisation – and Pakistan we know has one – possesses devastating compilations of our army’s crippling shortage of tank ammunition; the night-blindness of our tanks; the absence of modern artillery; our obsolete air defence network; and shortfalls in practically every parameter by which an army’s equipment readiness is gauged. All this is kept secret only from the Indian people who faithfully support their army, sending sons and daughters to die for the country, often in unnecessary ways.
Of course our army is fit for war, these patriotic citizens will say, pointing to the decades of counter-insurgency in J&K and the northeast that have claimed more soldiers’ lives than all the wars fought by independent India. But rolling back secessionism is different from fighting a full-scale war. All that is needed for counter-insurgency is excellent light infantry, and India’s infantry battalions are equal to that task. Kargil, too, was an infantry job, even if one that took all our reserves of 155-millimetre artillery shells to drive home. But full-scale war requires much more; and our mechanised forces, field artillery, air defence networks, combat engineers and logistics are woefully unequal to the task. This was true during the 1999 Kargil conflict; when India mobilised in Operation Parakram after the 2001 attacks on Parliament; it was true four years ago during 26/11; and it remains true today.

But nobody looks at this cold-eyed, because the generals hide their shortfalls behind the heroism of the fighting troops. Go through the recent media coverage of the 1962 war and, astonishingly for such an abject defeat, the army comes out smelling of lotuses, floating beatifically in the mire. Jawaharlal Nehru, Krishna Menon and B N Malik are blamed for throwing our brave jawans under the Chinese bus! Could this have happened had the generals held fast? When army chief General K S Thimayya resigned in 1959, Nehru personally intervened to minimise the damage. If a chief were to resign today over equipment shortfalls, does anyone doubt the intensity of the political inquisition that would follow?

But there is a twofold reason why army chiefs do not resign or even thump their boss’ tables. Firstly, they seem unable to contemplate giving up power and the institutionalised perks and privileges associated with senior rank. Secondly, and this is crucial, the generals know that the military, far more than the bureaucrats and politicians, is responsible for the lack of war readiness.

Take the deplorable state of affairs in the armoured corps, which operates the armoured tanks that are the cutting edge of India’s three strike corps. As this newspaper reported on Monday (“Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through T-90 purchase”, November 26, 2012), the army much prefers to buy equipment off the shelf from countries like Russia, rather than painstakingly developing and manufacturing equipment better suited for our own operating environment.

Incredibly, the army has not developed an indigenous armour philosophy in the last 65 years. Every serious army, even Israel, designs its tanks around a custom-made philosophy. Since human resources are a key constraint in tiny Israel, and distances are small, Israeli tanks are heavily armoured, lumbering vehicles where crew protection counts for more than the ability to quickly move long distances. In contrast, Russian tanks, designed to sweep rapidly through the vast expanses of Europe, are mobile, lightly armoured and have a smaller, three-man crew since a tank is expendable. The Indian Army, with one of the world’s largest fleets of 4,000 tanks, has neither an armour philosophy nor a tank design bureau that can produce indigenous designs.

The army has more generals than the Government of India has secretaries. But none, from the army chief downwards, has insisted on an armour philosophy, an essential prerequisite for an India-specific tank. Instead, the T-90 tank, designed and built for freezing Russia, is now being air-conditioned (heresy!) so that its electronics can survive the Indian summers. In an incredible moral contortion, those who back the indigenous Arjun are branded anti-national; while the generals who support the Russian T-90 style themselves as patriots!

Crafting an armour philosophy is not an intellectual feat. Three bright armoured corps colonels could do it in a week, given inputs on India’s border geography; war termination objectives; likely adversaries; the army’s manpower profile; and India’s industrial capabilities. But generations of armoured corps generals have had better things to do with their time; successive army chiefs and directors of operations and planning have been too preoccupied, or simply unconcerned, to ask why this is so.

If the army’s entire planning hierarchy has ever questioned the absence of any doctrinal coherence in the strike formations’ equipment, this has not resulted in any remedial action. But our generals believe the road to salvation passes through Moscow; respond to the challenge of indigenisation by buying more T-90s, just as the air marshals buy more and more Sukhoi-30 fighters. Does this point to Russia’s colonisation of our generals’ operational thinking, or it is just apathy and lack of professionalism? Either way, the answer is depressing
 
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This article is written by an Indian author.

Such claims of your side being weak, and accepting it are good tactics to make your enemy believe that your defense is weak and they would not give as much importance or time to this force which agrees on being weak, for the threat is not great why should there be any fear from them? Articles like these are to cool the other side's Generals in attempt to hope they start taking things a bit lighter than they should and the fact remains otherwise, hence taking your enemy with a surprise in the battlefield.

Pakistani Generals are not stupid to not take India as a threat due to their inventory or the things they lack in. The worst mistake one can do, is taking any kind of threat lightly, despite how strong your army and field tactics are. The day an Army starts to feel the threat from it's enemy is reducing is the day the Army starts marching towards it's own doom.

You must read articles written by a retired Pakistani Brigadier, Nadir Mir.
 
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