Opinion: Musharraf could've been a caliph but chose to be a jackal.

[BATMAN]

Nonetheless, the misadventure was illegal, planned with scant attention to logistics, or the inevitable political aftermath, which haunts Pakistan to this day, and achieved nothing of significance.

How was it illegal?
Surprise was at core of the planning and it was achieved... and nothing was overlooked, but you are overlooking the fact that political leadership was over whelmed by a call from US president, which have had not happened in long time. I consider it criminal when army is in war for whatever reason, but political leadership tries to credit it or busy playing dirty games on side.
All the haunting lies with Indians, who were short of coffins, Dehli was in panic and Wajpai went to non aligned US to tame Pakistani soldiers.
If Imran Khan was PM, he would have done much worst.

 

[retaxis]

OP sounds like an ISIS recruit who is too scared to join ISIS

 

[Whitefalcon90]

What are the islamic instructions regarding a situation which we faced back in 2001?? The instructions are crystal clear as mentioned in Quran i.e. support the oppressed and not the oppressor. Fear Allah and no one else and have faith in Him and He will surely help you. In Quran Allah says that He will test those who call themselves as muslims by hunger, fear of enemy, economic losses and loss of life.
There are people who are commenting that Taliban were defeated and afghsnistan was sent to stone age. We couldnt afford that. Such muslims should know that there have been Prophets who were killed in the way of Allah. Some had very few followers even after decades of struggle. So whether they lost? No they did what they were ordered to do and will have the reward in the next life. In surah Maida it is noted in Quran that when the Prophet of Bani Israel told them to to enter into the Holy city they replied to him there are strong and tough people living there so we won't go there and Allah says don't be afraid of them have faith in your Lord.
So as per the Quran our actions in 2001 were totally unislamic and no muslim can justify those actions. There is no doubt in it. We showed the same coward attitude of bani israel and used our "logic" against the faith in Allah and we paid for it heavily by facing worst natural disasters in human history, having worst kind of human beings as our leaders, corruption and injustice rampant in our society and despite our boot licking of the west our economy is in tatters.
Having said that it is important to mention here that defending islam and other muslims is the responsibility of all the muslims and not only of Pakistan. That's why unity among muslims is so much stressed in Quran. A single group or country may put up a heroic stand but they wont cause much trouble to our enemies.
What should be our attitude now towards our actions in the past. We should condemn what we did and should not defend our wrong actions. What we did was out of fear , lack of unity, lack of faith in Allah and for the love of this world. Now if we try to find excuses to defend our misdeeds we will do more harm to us. At least by admitting to our mistakes and feeling ashamed about it we may qualify for the third level of faith that we disliked our unislamic acts at least in our hearts. But by defending those misdeeds will surely lead us down to the level of Kuffar.
This is my first and last post in this thread. It is for the muslims only and I referred to Quran for explaining my point of view which is the ultimate source of guidance. Now even after this if someone thinks that he is more logical then Quran then my Salam to him.

MashaAllah brother may Allah bless you here and in the afterlife.

Seems like Pakistan is hostage to bunch of liberals who think they are doing good but are ultimately destroying the country.

I bet general zia wouldn't have cooperated. That man is and will be a legend.

I actually rang up the non-Pakistani Muslim world yesterday and asked them if they would fight against the indians with us. They said "Nah, we are too busy accepting Israel and progressing in all fields and increasing the living standards of our people". They then told me to "F**K OFF" and put the phone down.

Damn bunch of cowards. Just like musharaff.

Musharraf = giddar
OP sounds like an ISIS recruit who is too scared to join ISIS
[/QUOTE]

Why would I join west backed isis? Why can't I join my brothers and sisters of Pakistan going on a holy cause? Why are people like me being denied our right to spread the message of Islam and expand borders onto other regions for the betterment of Pakistan.

 

[Whitefalcon90]

Those who die in the cause of Allah live on forever. Pakistan chose this materialistic life over the after life. This life will end but afterlife is forever.

Musharraf will pay for his cowardly actions, InshaAllah.

 

[BATMAN]

I actually rang up the non-Pakistani Muslim world yesterday and asked them if they would fight against the indians with us. They said "Nah, we are too busy accepting Israel and progressing in all fields and increasing the living standards of our people". They then told me to "F**K OFF" and put the phone down.

If you had tried asking for charity, answer may not be as negative as you got.
Imran Khan always win big bucks when he rang them up.

 

[Whitefalcon90]

Go to school, graduate college, get married and have kids, then work the rest of your life into death. No cause and no purpose of life except materialistic life and money. And then some sort of illness takes you to the other side. What a disgraceful life.

Give our youth a cause to live and die for a purpose of a muslims life is to better the hereafter. Once there is a purpose of life you will see more engineers more doctors more technicians churning out left and right to make Pakistan better.

 

[MuhammedAli]

If only he had held on and pushed for victory against India in the kargil war and then denying support to America in 2001. He could've had millions if not billions of soldiers to defend Islam and Pakistan against the crusade.

All he had to do was say that America has threatened war against Pakistan if Pakistan doesn't cooperate with them on Afghanistan. He should've said I have held my ground and put my trust in Allah, armed forces, and Muslims to repel the crusade and gain victory which Allah has promised to its believers.

But he became a jackal and that is how history is going to show him as. A corrupt, death fearing jackal who laid down with his pants down in front of America.

Bhang ya chars pee teh shorna hen paya ya ziyada sharab pee shori eh?

 

[BATMAN]

Those who die in the cause of Allah live on forever. Pakistan chose this materialistic life over the after life. This life will end but afterlife is forever.

Musharraf will pay for his cowardly actions, InshaAllah.

Your view of dying for cause of Allah is wrong.
Human is given birth to behave like human, not putting others in trouble, pain or death.

Musharraf will get best of Jannah, InsaAhllah.

 

[Smoke]

Go to school, graduate college, get married and have kids, then work the rest of your life into death. No cause and no purpose of life except materialistic life and money. And then some sort of illness takes you to the other side. What a disgraceful life.

Give our youth a cause to live and die for a purpose of a muslims life is to better the hereafter. Once there is a purpose of life you will see more engineers more doctors more technicians churning out left and right to make Pakistan better.

Come back to Pakistan, feed the poor here, Construct a shade with a fan for public use, Put up a water cooler on your street, Plant fruit trees and share the spoils with everyone, establish friendly relationships with all your neighbours, Invest money and build a local mosque, sacrifice animals in the name of Allah, Spread love, patience, humbleness, kindness and peace.


^ Just because you have limited yourself to work and money doesn't justify you to warmonger around what-if scenarios of the past... Get back to the present and think about doing what I wrote above, you want to fulfill your life? Pray, Fast, Go for Umrah/Hajj... live for what Allah has made you to be.. his servant. Do the things you can do right now.. Don't wish for war, don't wish for pain and suffering...

Honestly, to me you look like someone looking for fame and glory, and you're using Islam and bloodshed to get it.

 

[MultaniGuy]

To the people saying I'm in the US and blah blah,, Maybe if Pakistan was on the cause of Allah I wouldn't be here in the west. I'll be fighting in Pakistan.

And the funny part is, there will be a war InshaAllah against India. I know you liberals hate this but war is in our blood. Pakistan will control all the coast of India plus majority of the northern side and put the Hindus in the middle surrounded by Pakistan. I give it 10-15 years.

\Exactly a good point. If Pakistan was not corrupt, I would be the first to die for it.

If Islamic laws were applied for criminal offences like theft and adultery I would be the first to live there. May Allah help our country.

The Taliban did agree to hand over OBL but to a third party country.
Which the US denied and then murdered thousands of Afghans in cold blood.

This is the story I heard as well about that loser Osama Bin Laden.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Exports and manufacturing is also relates to education, if education will improve our export automatically will improve

If You were in Musharraf's position at that time, you may not have behaved any differently.
Our peoples are not well educated. Education and Economy should be a priority in Pakistan.

The Taliban did agree to hand over OBL but to a third party country.
Which the US denied and then murdered thousands of Afghans in cold blood.

Had the Afghan Taliban just handed Osama Bin laden over, NATO still would have invaded.
It is "agenda" that is what people told me when I was in Saudi Arabia.

 

[LeGenD]

What are the islamic instructions regarding a situation which we faced back in 2001?? The instructions are crystal clear as mentioned in Quran i.e. support the oppressed and not the oppressor. Fear Allah and no one else and have faith in Him and He will surely help you. In Quran Allah says that He will test those who call themselves as muslims by hunger, fear of enemy, economic losses and loss of life.
There are people who are commenting that Taliban were defeated and afghsnistan was sent to stone age. We couldnt afford that. Such muslims should know that there have been Prophets who were killed in the way of Allah. Some had very few followers even after decades of struggle. So whether they lost? No they did what they were ordered to do and will have the reward in the next life. In surah Maida it is noted in Quran that when the Prophet of Bani Israel told them to to enter into the Holy city they replied to him there are strong and tough people living there so we won't go there and Allah says don't be afraid of them have faith in your Lord.
So as per the Quran our actions in 2001 were totally unislamic and no muslim can justify those actions. There is no doubt in it. We showed the same coward attitude of bani israel and used our "logic" against the faith in Allah and we paid for it heavily by facing worst natural disasters in human history, having worst kind of human beings as our leaders, corruption and injustice rampant in our society and despite our boot licking of the west our economy is in tatters.
Having said that it is important to mention here that defending islam and other muslims is the responsibility of all the muslims and not only of Pakistan. That's why unity among muslims is so much stressed in Quran. A single group or country may put up a heroic stand but they wont cause much trouble to our enemies.
What should be our attitude now towards our actions in the past. We should condemn what we did and should not defend our wrong actions. What we did was out of fear , lack of unity, lack of faith in Allah and for the love of this world. Now if we try to find excuses to defend our misdeeds we will do more harm to us. At least by admitting to our mistakes and feeling ashamed about it we may qualify for the third level of faith that we disliked our unislamic acts at least in our hearts. But by defending those misdeeds will surely lead us down to the level of Kuffar.
This is my first and last post in this thread. It is for the muslims only and I referred to Quran for explaining my point of view which is the ultimate source of guidance. Now even after this if someone thinks that he is more logical then Quran then my Salam to him.

I have a simple question for you. Who is the 'oppressor' and 'oppressed' between USA and Al-Qaeda Network respectively?

Please take your time to understand difference(s) between these two entities and how each contributes to Human Order in modern times.

I shall leave a hint for you though.

Al-Qaeda Network = Khawarij

Khawarij: A History of Violence

There are many Muslims who are troubled by ISIS and their vicious rhetoric and vicious actions. But this is not the first time that a rebel group of Muslims have emerged with extremist tendencies. And as the saying goes, those who do not heed history are doomed to repeat it. Prophet Muhammad...

www.islamicity.org

 

[litman]

I have a simple question for you. Who is the 'oppressor' and 'oppressed' between USA and Al-Qaeda Network respectively?

Please take your time to understand difference(s) between these two entities and how each contributes to Human Order in modern times.

I shall leave a hint for you though.

Al-Qaeda Network = Khawarij

Khawarij: A History of Violence

There are many Muslims who are troubled by ISIS and their vicious rhetoric and vicious actions. But this is not the first time that a rebel group of Muslims have emerged with extremist tendencies. And as the saying goes, those who do not heed history are doomed to repeat it. Prophet Muhammad...

www.islamicity.org

And WMDs were in Iraq and Anna Nicole married for love............................. A dialogue from movie shooter.

And please dig deeper into the history of these terrorist organizations. You will come to know about their masters and whom they serve. Wasn't expecting such a naive statement from a mod.

Every individual / group always tend to find an excuse for their misdeeds and to satisfy their conscience and they do so successfully in most of the cases. Some "lucky ones" admit their mistakes and they are lucky because admitting ones flaws, mistakes , sins is the first step towards repentance ( tobah)

 

[mqur1963]

Back then in 2001 Pakistan was much weaker.

Now Pakistan is much stronger now.

if you trust ALLAH i will be in haven no musf have to pay and answer to ALLAH disgrace to islam

 

[LeGenD]

And WMDs were in Iraq and Anna Nicole married for love............................. A dialogue from movie shooter.

And please dig deeper into the history of these terrorist organizations. You will come to know about their masters and whom they serve. Wasn't expecting such a naive statement from a mod.

Every individual / group always tend to find an excuse for their misdeeds and to satisfy their conscience and they do so successfully in most of the cases. Some "lucky ones" admit their mistakes and they are lucky because admitting ones flaws, mistakes , sins is the first step towards repentance ( tobah)

You are moving the goalpost now.

You are also 'assuming' that I never had the opportunity to study history of terrorist organizations. I have. These organizations are 'non-state actors' to be accurate.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0966284042000279009?journalCode=flic20

You were talking about picking a side between the 'oppressor' and the 'oppressed' on the basis of guidance in Holy Quran, and Pervez Musharraf chose the 'oppressor' instead, and Pakistan experienced earthquakes afterwards which reinforce your perspective in relation.

Does Al-Qaeda Network qualify for the title of 'oppressed' in any capacity?

The earthquakes have scientific explanation (e.g. tectonic instability in Kashmir), and could also be warnings for widespread 'corruption' (from religious standpoint) - one of the core issues of supposedly Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

You are making use of religious themes to cast Pervez Musharraf in negative light on the basis of a flawed premise. This is why I cautioned you. Thanks.