OH US buy Russia RD-180 engines My God

[onebyone]

HASC doubles Air Force allotment of RD-180 engines, focuses funding on building its replacement

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Air Force would have access to as many as 18 Russian RD-180 rocket engines under a bill the House Armed Services Committee approved April 28.

By allowing United Launch Alliance to import twice the number of RD-180 engines allowed under last year’s National Defense Authorization Act, this year’s bill — as amended during a 16-hour markup session that wrapped up just before 3 a.m. — is intended to allow the Defense Department to continue to launch satellites aboard ULA’s Atlas 5 rocket until the company’s next-generation launcher, Vulcan, is ready to take over around 2022.

Congress, which has grown uncomfortable with relying on Russian-supplied engines to launch the bulk of U.S. military and intelligence satellites, enacted legislation in 2014 capping the number of RD-180 engines ULA can buy for future national security launches.

The Air Force has been pushing Congress to relax the cap, saying ULA needs about 18 engines to ensure it can compete against SpaceX for dozens of launch contracts the service expects to award before Vulcan is certified to carry critical DoD payloads.

That relief came in the form of an amendment introduced around 1:30 a.m. by Rep. Mike Coffman (R-Colo.), whose Denver-area district is home to many United Launch Alliance employees.


Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), the ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee, offered an amendment to clarify how the Air Force can develop a replacement capability to the RD-180 rocket engine. Credit: HASC.
“The purpose of buying these engines is to make sure there is an alternative to SpaceX and we don’t just have one bidder,” said Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), the House Armed Services Committee’s ranking member. Blue Origin, the Jeff Bezos-backed company building the BE-4 engine ULA favors for Vulcan, is headquartered in Smith’s Seattle-area congressional district.

Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), whose San Diego-area district is a couple hours down the road from SpaceX’s Hawthorne headquarters, said there is no immediate need to raise the RD-180 quota and that future imports could be approved as the engines are needed. Relaxing the ban now, he said, will only benefit a modernization of the Russian military.

“Congress isn’t going away,” he said. “We can look at this next year. There’s no need for us to line Putin’s pockets right now.”

Leaders of the House Armed Services Committee acknowledged the RD-180 issue will be re-visited when they meet in conference with their Senate Armes Services Committee to hash out differences between the House and Senate versions of the National Defense Authorization Act for 2017, which sets policy and spending guidelines for the entire Defense Department.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain (R-Ariz.) favors tighter restrictions on military use of RD-180s. In December, after Congress passed an omnibus spending bill that temporarily suspends the nine-engine limit McCain helped impose, McCain floated the possibility of seeking “an unrestricted prohibition” on Air Force use of the engine.

RD-180 replacement amendment

The RD-180 provision was one of two launch-related amendments that made it into the National Defense Authorization Act of 2017 by the time the committee voted 60 to 2 to send the bill to the full House of Representatives for its consideration.

Smith, the top-ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, successfully amended the bill to ensure that the Air Force spend some of the $300 million it requested in 2017 on research and development for a next-generation launcher and not just for the development of a new main-stage rocket engine.

That’s good news for Orbital ATK, SpaceX and ULA which won contracts totaling $130 million this year to work on, respectively, a new solid-fueled booster, a new upper stage for Falcon, and Vulcan integration.

Aerojet Rocketdyne has won an initial $115 million Air Force contract in February to help fund development of the AR-1 engine, which it is pitching as a versatile, drop-in replacement for the RD-180 on the Atlas 5.

All told, the Air Force proposes to invest $1.2 billion over the next five years to help industry develop next-generation launch capabilities.

Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.), the chairman of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, joined with Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) to restrict that funding to development of a main-stage engine capable of replacing the RD-180.

But Smith’s compromise, negotiations over which helped push the markup into the wee hours, limits the Air Force to spending no more than 25 percent of the R&D funds on anything that’s not a main-stage engine.

- See more at: http://spacenews.com/the-rd-180-ame...ll-to-the-full/#sthash.B1x3Xz6F.ylJdJsls.dpuf

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Simple reason. Need Falcon Heavy sized rocket for 2/3 of the US military/spy satellites...since most of their satellites are HUGE.

https://twitter.com/x/status/603312872974868481

Keep in mind the Falcon 9 is about the same power as a Long March 3B (China's current most powerful rocket). A Falcon 9 can lift a Dragon spacecraft into orbit to dock with the space station...yet it can't lift 2/3 of the military/NRO satellites into a proper orbit. That shows the power needed to lift these large satellites.

The Falcon Heavy will launch in November and will be the most powerful active rocket in the world...second only to a Saturn V...and remember it will come back and land for reuse. This will lead to even LARGER satellites.

A reusable rocket...second to a Saturn V...

 

[Skaði]

Simple reason. Need Falcon Heavy sized rocket for 2/3 of the US military's spy satellites...since they are huge.

https://twitter.com/x/status/603312872974868481

Isn't Delta IV the USAF's heavy lift platform, not Atlas V? They do NRO launches.

These don't use RD-180 or any Russian engine. Rather, they use RS-68

And RL-10

Atlas V has launched USN satellites like MUOS, but is for smaller platforms.

Yup, this is considered a small platform

Especially when compared to high-orbit spy satellites like the Hexagon series

But if Delta IV satisfies the heavy lift requirements, why do they need to wait for Falcon Heavy?

Or is that tweet saying the reason SpaceX doesn't have all the US military contracts, including those Falcon takes from Atlas and Falcon Heavy would take from Delta IV - both ULA platforms - is because the Falcon Heavy isn't yet ready?

I think it's the latter, and not because the USAF doesn't have a domestic alternative to a Russian platform, especially since Delta IV doesn't use a Russian engine.

Hmm, seems I need to review the US Space Program thread.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Isn't Delta IV the USAF's heavy lift platform, not Atlas V? They do NRO launches.

These don't use RD-180 or any Russian engine. Rather, they use RS-68

And RL-10

Atlas V has launched USN satellites like MUOS, but is for smaller platforms.

But if Delta IV satisfies the heavy lift requirements, why do they need to wait for Falcon Heavy?

Or is that tweet saying the reason SpaceX doesn't have all the US military contracts, including those Falcon takes from Atlas and Falcon Heavy would take from Delta IV - both ULA platforms - is because the Falcon Heavy isn't yet ready?

I think it's the latter, and not because the USAF doesn't have a domestic alternative to a Russian platform, especially since Delta IV doesn't use a Russian engine.

Hmm, seems I need to review the US Space Program thread.

https://defence.pk/threads/us-space-program-a-thread.380100/page-17

They use Delta 4 Heavy (8 launches) for NRO and Atlas V (62 launches) for military satellites.

They don't have to wait for SpaceX

 

[somebozo]

This is very old news..US space program is dependent on many Russian components.
But it is shame for Russia which destroyed its future with Communism and cannot successfully materialize its technical prowess into economic success.

 

[Skaði]

They use Delta 4 Heavy for NRO and Atlas V for military satellites.

Is that still the case? Didn't Delta IV launch the DSP early warning satellites into high-orbit?

DSP is cool, it's called the "doom's day" satellites because their used to detect missile launches, though one was also used to help ascertain what downed MH17 over Ukraine and Metrojet Flight 9268.

In fact, I know they also service the USAF because this particular Delta IV is carrying a DSP satellite

I know they do NRO launches too, but I think they're still launching large USAF satellites as well.

The tweet you posted is weird because it suggests the USAF is waiting for Falcon Heavy when Delta IV can launch the same platforms.

I think it's saying that the reason SpaceX hasn't captured all military contracts, as it's been trying to, is because it can't currently launch satellites like DSP, and thus the ULA is called upon with its Delta IV Heavy.

...

Don't know if you remember me, but I'm your comrade on the US Space Programs thread

https://defence.pk/members/technogaianist.170351/

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Is that still the case? Didn't Delta IV launch the DSP early warning satellites into high-orbit?

In fact, I know they also service the USAF because this particular Delta IV is carrying a DSP satellite

I know they do NRO launches too, but I think they're still launching large USAF satellites as well.

The tweet you posted is weird because it suggests the USAF is waiting for Falcon Heavy when Delta IV can launch the same platforms.

I think it's saying that the reason SpaceX hasn't captured all military contracts, as it's been trying to, is because it can't currently launch satellites like DSP, and thus the ULA is called upon with its Delta IV Heavy.

...

Don't know if you remember me, but I'm your comrade on the US Space Programs thread

https://defence.pk/members/technogaianist.170351/

yes, I can tell who you are,

The Delta IV is like $100M more than an Altas 5. They are using Russian rockets to save money. When the Falcon Heavy launches they will save far more and bye bye Russian rockets.

62 Atlas launches multiplied by $100M in savings....$6 Billion in launch costs,

 

[Skaði]

The Delta IV is like $100M more than a Altas 5.

Right, and the Atlas V is comparable to the Delta IV Medium.

Actually, Delta IV and Falcon 9 both outclass Atlas V by a few thousand pounds to LEO.

But Delta IV heavy doesn't have an Atlas V comparison since the Atlas V HLV isn't going to be developed

Atlas V is cheaper then Delta IV, but it can't be used for the missions Delta IV heavy can. But Falcon 9 Heavy can, and is being developed to compete with the ULA's Delta IV Heavies for military contracts.

Atlas V couldn't launch the DSP satellites, it doesn't have the power, hence why we saw the ULA's heavy-lift Delta IV Heavy doing it.

Pervious DSP launches were carried by the shuttles.

Atlas V for smaller or lower orbit launches, Delta IV Heavy for high-orbit, heavy-weight military satellites. Atlas V also carries NROL programs

*damn new account! I can't post links!

yes, I can tell who you are,

Oh good. I never know given I come and go so often.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

BTW another SpaceX launch Thursday
http://www.wtsp.com/tech/science/spacex-targeting-thursday-afternoon-launch-landing/211630119

Same GTO type launch as last time with a barge landing.

 

[SecularNationalist]

This is very old news..US space program is dependent on many Russian components.
But it is shame for Russia which destroyed its future with Communism and cannot successfully materialize its technical prowess into economic success.

Russia actually achieved most of it,s economic success and technical prowess during the soviet era.

 

[LeGenD]

US buys foreign stuff to understand their mechanics and performance. This doesn't implies that US is actually dependent upon such parts.

US have developed its own engines before and continues to do so at present. The latest one is RS-25 which will power the futuristic SLS rockets.

Here is a video:

 

[Skaði]

The latest one is RS-25 which will power the futuristic SLS rockets.

You're right about it powering the SLS, but the RS-25 debuted in 1981 and is also known as the SSME - or Space Shuttle Main Engine:

Existing stocks of RS-25Ds will be expended first, and a newer, cheaper, more efficient version, the RS-25E will take over after that.

I'm kind of a space exploration geek.

 

[C130]

ULA needs to just go away along with the RD-180 engine...

our government is wasting to much money on ULA, when that could be going towards SpaceX or into NASA for future space exploration missions.

 

[vsdave2302]

This is the magic of capitalism. rivelary of the countries do not come in between the business interest. Pakistn seriously need to learn from US here.