No universal quality education, no strong country: Chinese premier

[lockh33d]

US primary and middle school education is trash, but their universities are top of the world.

Haha, I fell off my seat when I read that. Our schools give students the choice which they want to pursue in life. If they like maths related subjects, they can go after a engineering degree. Otherwise, they can pursue literature if they take interests in language related subject areas. Asia, on the other hand, forces education down students as a one would swallow medicine down his/her throat. And THAT, is the crux of it. NOT that our elementary material is trash.

 

[below_freezing]

Haha, I fell off my seat when I read that. Our schools give students the choice which they want to pursue in life. If they like maths related subjects, they can go after a engineering degree. Otherwise, they can pursue literature if they take interests in language related subject areas. Asia, on the other hand, forces education down students as a one would swallow medicine down his/her throat. And THAT, is the crux of it. NOT that our elementary material is trash.

Can most US students even read at grade level? Your own test system says otherwise.

Is the SAT supposed to be challenging? Because the average score is apparently 500 on a test that doesn't go beyond basic straightforward algebra and reading comprehension. It's close to elementary school material and yet most students fail to do well. I can go on, but your own leaders know that the US education system is going down.

Freedom to choose is also not an excuse. The vast majority of US students are not good at either math or literature. Lots of chinese students are terrible at math and take up a career in literary fields and have no shame about it, in fact in Chinese high schools classes are split into "literature emphasis" and "science emphasis" in high school 2nd year so students can pursue their interests further.

 

[gambit]

Can most US students even read at grade level? Your own test system says otherwise.

Is the SAT supposed to be challenging? Because the average score is apparently 500 on a test that doesn't go beyond basic straightforward algebra and reading comprehension. It's close to elementary school material and yet most students fail to do well. I can go on, but your own leaders know that the US education system is going down.

Freedom to choose is also not an excuse. The vast majority of US students are not good at either math or literature. Lots of chinese students are terrible at math and take up a career in literary fields and have no shame about it, in fact in Chinese high schools classes are split into "literature emphasis" and "science emphasis" in high school 2nd year so students can pursue their interests further.

You flunked statistics in the other discussion. So I suggest you move on.

 

[lllzh]

Can most US students even read at grade level? Your own test system says otherwise.

Is the SAT supposed to be challenging? Because the average score is apparently 500 on a test that doesn't go beyond basic straightforward algebra and reading comprehension. It's close to elementary school material and yet most students fail to do well. I can go on, but your own leaders know that the US education system is going down.

Freedom to choose is also not an excuse. The vast majority of US students are not good at either math or literature. Lots of chinese students are terrible at math and take up a career in literary fields and have no shame about it, in fact in Chinese high schools classes are split into "literature emphasis" and "science emphasis" in high school 2nd year so students can pursue their interests further.

lockh33d is correct there. For example, high schools in China do not offer AP classes such as calculus. (Even through AP physics and chemistry are just equivalent to 2nd./3rd. year high school level in China.)

The difference really comes down to either let students make choices or let their parents/school do those for them. For me, I prefer the former.

 

[Sanchez]

Can most US students even read at grade level? Your own test system says otherwise.

Is the SAT supposed to be challenging? Because the average score is apparently 500 on a test that doesn't go beyond basic straightforward algebra and reading comprehension. It's close to elementary school material and yet most students fail to do well. I can go on, but your own leaders know that the US education system is going down.

Freedom to choose is also not an excuse. The vast majority of US students are not good at either math or literature. Lots of chinese students are terrible at math and take up a career in literary fields and have no shame about it, in fact in Chinese high schools classes are split into "literature emphasis" and "science emphasis" in high school 2nd year so students can pursue their interests further.

I wouldn't argue if Chinese school system is better. In fact China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan as well as Singapore share the same character in schooling or primary education, i.e., to feed the pupils as much as they can.

 

[below_freezing]

You flunked statistics in the other discussion. So I suggest you move on.

by whose standards? demographics is very complicated, and it is not my subject of study. i don't think you even fully understood the argument.

also doesn't change that most US students can't read at grade level and that "passing" standards are lower than other countries as well. in terms of understanding knowledge, US students are behind, that is a fact. this also has nothing to do with east or west. France, germany and switzerland all boast much higher test scores than the US for elementary and high school students.

 

[gambit]

by whose standards? demographics is very complicated, and it is not my subject of study. i don't think you even fully understood the argument.

I understood it better than you do.

also doesn't change that most US students can't read at grade level and that "passing" standards are lower than other countries as well. in terms of understanding knowledge, US students are behind, that is a fact. this also has nothing to do with east or west. France, germany and switzerland all boast much higher test scores than the US for elementary and high school students.

So now education is your area of expertise?

 

[below_freezing]

I understood it better than you do.


So now education is your area of expertise?

of course not. just a comment on the quality i observed.

 

[fallstuff]

U.S schools are just fine, except for a few issues. For the average students , just the regular stuff. For advanced student there is International Baccalaureate. I do have an extended family here. All my nieces and nephews went thorough the International Baccalaureate program, and went onto schools like University of Florida, Emory. Only a few selected schools offer these IB programs.

All the teachers are required to have teaching certification and must go through re-certifications periodically.

The issues I see in school that Mathematics can certainly use a little higher standard for the average students. The expectation from the student are low in Math.

The parents are not actively involved in their childs studies. I somewhat feel the parents drop the kids off at school and thats its. They did their job ! It is ultimately the responsibility of the parent to provide the tools the child needs to learn.

The parents do not necessarily have to be highly educated. Just keep up with the child's homework, exams, and keep it interesting.

 

[below_freezing]

U.S schools are just fine, except for a few issues. For the average students , just the regular stuff. For advanced student there is International Baccalaureate. I do have an extended family here. All my nieces and nephews went thorough the International Baccalaureate program, and went onto schools like University of Florida, Emory. Only a few selected schools offer these IB programs.

The teachers are required to have teaching certification and must go through re-certifications periodically.

The issues I see in school that Mathematics can certainly use a little higher standard for the average students. The expectation from the student are low in Math.

The parents are not actively involved in their childs studies. I somewhat feel the parents drop the kids off at school and thats its. They did their job ! It is ultimately responsibility of the parent to provide the tools the child need to learn.

The parents do not necessarily have to be highly educated. Just keep up with the child's homework, exams, and keep it interesting.

the IB program is quite brutal from what i've heard of it, more brutal than curriculum in china. congrats to anyone who survived it, it's not easy.

however that is a tiny minority of students. they are the ones who will become leaders, the rest of the students won't because they just don't have it at their school, and in regular US schools without the IB program, what they learn isn't comparable to regular curriculum in other countries.

 

[gpit]

I think both of you (see below) have your valid reasons to state your points.

US primary and middle school education is trash, but their universities are top of the world.

In Obama's inauguration speech, he correctly stated that: our schools fail too many!

Failed students are visible everywhere in the States. However, excellent students are also visible. But the fail/success ratio is way too high.

On the other side, I don't Chinese schools are successful, either. Given the fact that the ordinary Chinese are traditionally more emphasizing education, Chinese school should have the kind of soil that can make Chinese students the greatest in the world. But, alas, the schools are too much money oriented. Another reason is the rotten/obsolete mindset of CPC bureaucracy that are still imposing too much restrictions on people’s thoughts.

Haha, I fell off my seat when I read that. Our schools give students the choice which they want to pursue in life. If they like maths related subjects, they can go after a engineering degree. Otherwise, they can pursue literature if they take interests in language related subject areas. Asia, on the other hand, forces education down students as a one would swallow medicine down his/her throat. And THAT, is the crux of it. NOT that our elementary material is trash.

True. If a student wants to excel in the States, he normally can find a lot of opportunities.

But, as hedonism prevails, large amount of students feel good about themselves without seeking more challenges, and without knowing they are to be washed out as trash by the world. And if a student wants let-go, nobody cares about you.

So I’d like to describe US school as: you can really excel if you want to be good, and you can really be rotten to the core if you let it go. Fairly large amount of students fall into the second category, unfortunately, as they fall into the victims of capitalistic propaganda of hedonism and materialism.

This is proven by UN studies. And this is why Mr. Obama cried out.

 

[gpit]

...

So now education is your area of expertise?

LOL!

I thought your expertise is to serve the warlords. How come you are in education?

 

[below_freezing]

I think both of you (see below) have your valid reasons to state your points.



In Obama's inauguration speech, he correctly stated that: our schools fail too many!

Failed students are visible everywhere in the States. However, excellent students are also visible. But the fail/success ratio is way too high.

On the other side, I don't Chinese schools are successful, either. Given the fact that the ordinary Chinese are traditionally more emphasizing education, Chinese school should have the kind of soil that can make Chinese students the greatest in the world. But, alas, the schools are too much money oriented. Another reason is the rotten/obsolete mindset of CPC bureaucracy that are still imposing too much restrictions on people’s thoughts.



True. If a student wants to excel in the States, he normally can find a lot of opportunities.

But, as hedonism prevails, large amount of students feel good about themselves without seeking more challenges, and without knowing they are to be washed out as trash by the world. And if a student wants let-go, nobody cares about you.

So I’d like to describe US school as: you can really excel if you want to be good, and you can really be rotten to the core if you let it go. Fairly large amount of students fall into the second category, unfortunately, as they fall into the victims of capitalistic propaganda of hedonism and materialism.

This is proven by UN studies. And this is why Mr. Obama cried out.

well said and mostly true. US students can be either extremely bright if they have motivation, or fail completely if they don't. the US provides kids with the opportuniyt to succeed but because the teachers and parents do not give the kids the motivation to learn, they dont. I don't agree with politics being an important part of chinese school though, it's usually the easiest class that no one fails, more than i can say for every other class haha... i don't know a single person that failed politics but didn't fail every other subject first.

 

[topjumper]

If I remember correctly, the politics taught in chinese high school is half socialist ideologies and half philosophy, the philosophy part was quite fun and useful imo.

 

[fallstuff]

the IB program is quite brutal from what i've heard of it, more brutal than curriculum in china. congrats to anyone who survived it, it's not easy.

however that is a tiny minority of students. they are the ones who will become leaders, the rest of the students won't because they just don't have it at their school, and in regular US schools without the IB program, what they learn isn't comparable to regular curriculum in other countries.

Thanks for the kind of words.The IB program is pretty good. There is lot of reading and grueling demands.

But a lot of the regular students are almost fish out of water when they take college level math. Many colleges are forced to offer remedial classes for these students.