New provinces and provincial autonomy

[sparklingway]

In this case, Rawalpindi seems a strong candidate for capital rather than Abbottabad and this decision will not serve the purpose and will cause ethnic-specific societal turbulence.

Don't need a fedreal capital and a provincial capital within 5 feet of each other, do we?

We in Pakistan have had larger cities as provincial capitals because the urban metropolis grew around small areas. Nobody would have ever chose Lahore as a provincial capital and put in danger the functioning of the government of the biggest province.

Abbotabad seems a right choice because it would then divert urban growth from Rawalpindi and allow a more focused developmental approach towards the area. Provincial/state capitals are small cities in most countries anyways.

People living in Hazara ethnically are not similar to Pindi living people, but yes linguistically similarities are there.

I really like this Potohar idea because there is linguistic and ethnic diversity to a certain extent but not really big enough o cause communal clashes. People from Hazara migrate to Rawalpindi for employment a lot of them anyways.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

It will increase the admin cost and level of corruption nothing else , our country need cheap power ,gas and water for agricultural and industrial growth.

We need to decrease the our non prodective expenses of government and armed forces , if we really want progress.

This approach is not a progressive one.
Why?
Because we cannot sit down by saying corruption will increase by making new provinces. There is a solution for every problem. Admin cost will not increase if every province is "self sustainable."
If there are 10 provinces in Pakistan and a faithful leadership for all of them than I am sure that it will be a great success.

Remember one thing..
There will be no use even if we make 100 provinces on the basis of politics.

However, if we make 10 provinces or so on the basis of rationality than it will sure help our country.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

The bonding force between all four provinces is Islam , we need to strengthen this bond by implementing shariah law .

Insurgency in FATA and NWFP is due to wrong policies of GOP , there is no any ethnic or linguistic problem in these areas , try to understand the root cause of problem.

The root cause of the problem is devastated economy.

I am going to say something secular here.

People care to feed their stomach rather dyeing to implement Sharia.

 

[sparklingway]

What seems to have happened is that a Pandora's box has been opened and these protest serving as a catalyst for debate over the creation of new provinces.

It will be impossible for the state to declare the creation of Hazara province and its immediate status elevated from today, if they choose to go the way of accepting the calls of protesters.

I find it highly unlikely that provinces will be carved out and the national landscape realigned immediately. What can be done is that an exhaustive and comprehensive feasibility study be carried out by a parliamentary committee and it evaluate the financial, social and political pay offs of such measures. If it does recommend new provinces, then we can implement this from 2013, when the next elections are due to take place. This would give time to complete all land disputes, set up provincial capitals, re distribute NA and Senate seats and create provincial governments.

The most visible benefit is that e.g. if a province is carved out of southern Punjab, then the people of this region would no longer complain that the Shareef brotherts neglect the area. They would then have their own representatives, available far more easily (albeit the difficulty of getting access to a governmental office) and thus they'd see a more focused and direct approach to their socio economic development.

If indeed such a provinces are created, the scope of the projects under one provincial government would be smaller, the number of projects being handed would be smaller and the implementation far more easier. Administratively it would be far much better than the mess that we have today.

Ultimately, it would be impossible that nobody indulges in political point scoring, try to carve provinces on ethno-linguistic lines and cement their political positions; but it is time that we accept the fact that creation of a number of provinces is in our own benefit, embrace the idea and try to achieve a more cohesive, unified state that focuses on social welfare.

Fore members who believe that somehow creation of new provinces would weaken the federation, I'm sorry but you're thinking along the wrong lines. If the word Pakistan was based on provincial names, it does not mean that creation of new provinces would break the thread with which the state has remained unified. It would indeed strengthen the state for the bond of nationalism would continue to exist, regardless of provincial demarcations.

 

[waraich66]

The root cause of the problem is devastated economy.

I am going to say something secular here.

People care to feed their stomach rather dyeing to implement Sharia.

Shariah can only eliminate corruption in muslim society .Western style democracy can not solve our social and economic problems , it is made for westerm society , our values and culture nd religion is totally different from them .

Ada titar adah bateer will not work in Pakistan.

Present corrupt government system is wasting all our resources that is reason public is suffering from hunger and poverty.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Shariah can only eliminate corruption in muslim society .Western style democracy can not solve our social and economic problems , it is made for westerm society , our values and culture nd religion is totally different from them .

Ada titar adah bateer will not work in Pakistan.

Present corrupt government system is wasting all our resources that is reason public is suffering from hunger and poverty.

You are right about "Ada titar adah bateer will not work in Pakistan."

Western style democracy can not solve our social and economic problems , it is made for westerm society , our values and culture nd religion is totally different from them .
There are only two ways to survive in this world.
Either you make Muslim world stronger in economy or you have to accept Western terms to survive.
We will be next Afghanistan if we only want to impose Islam knowing the fact that our state is not that strong.

Let me be more clear here.
Western world are not in the favour of conservative society (tari lagani wali also) so if you go against them than you have to be economically stable. So, we should get stronger and than try to think about countering western influence.
Other than that, corruption will automatically finish when society is strong.

 

[Hyde]

This thread should be marked sticky. It is "the most" useful thread on PDF.
I mean PDF is about Pakistan so what other thread can be more useful other than this one. If we make more provinces based on rationality not on politics than sure it is a huge step forward and a great success.

I think senior members should provide in depth analysis about making new provinces in Pakistan.

Personally, I will be the first one to stand for it.

You are not the first one brother

I am in great favour of more provinces. There was a time when i used to oppose this idea but after we had a long debate on another forum i finally decided to change my mind. You see how can the chief minister of Punjab can take care such a vast land of Punjab? it is really hard for him to make development plans. He is mostly familiar with Lahore and sorrounding areas and not all of Punjab. He distribute money among his peoples to spend money on several projects but he cannot keep an eye on everybody and major chunk of that money goes in corruption. I believe if you have less territory under control you can better spend your money on infrastracture and development projects and you have more brains to think and work on your country. Just take an example of your neighbouring country like Afghanistan who has 34 provinces and is less than the size of Pakistan. Take an example of Iran who is almost doube in size than you but 30 provinces. Take an example of India who is about 4 times the size of you and has 28 provinces. See europe and take an exampe of Italy who has 110 provinces in such a small country.

You find all these countries growing up rapidly and one of the prime reason is that when the budget is made the money does not go ony one person's pocket but distributed in such a way where you can keep an eye on every single chief minister and his projects. There is a kind of a competition between states and all the states are growing to perform better than one another. They have their allocated budgets and the chief minister has its own team to work on its area.

Just take an example of our country.......... you have federal budget and then Provincial budget of 4 provinces. Usually we never come to know where half of our budget disappears. But we have more privinces say 10 provinces the allocated budget will be distributed to 10 provinces instead of 4 and they will have better approach to the local citizens of Pakistan and will know which project is more important. Obviously if they don't perform well they will be replaced by somebody else so everybody will have a kind of a comptetion to work better than another province. For example South Punjab will be competing with West Punjab if almost equal budget was given to them and end of the year they will have a progress report in media anyway and the peoples will be able to decide about their progress more thoroughly

 

[sparklingway]

@Fundamentalist:-
This is not a forum to discuss Sharia-Khilafa vs democracy. Why does every problem require a knee jerk response? We're talking about creation of new provinces and this does not involve any religious context in any way.

I'm having a headache, it has nothing to do with any religious, social or political problems. The river is flowing. It has nothing to do with the form of government. Similarly, new provincial demarcations have nothing to do with the form of government that you want to implement.

You want to implement Sharia and Khilafa in Pakistan, open a new thread to discuss it.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

This is what I call a master piece.
^^ Parliamentary committee of PDF!

What can be done is that an exhaustive and comprehensive feasibility study be carried out

They would then have their own representatives, available far more easily (albeit the difficulty of getting access to a governmental office) and thus they'd see a more focused and direct approach to their socio economic development.

If indeed such a provinces are created, the scope of the projects under one provincial government would be smaller, the number of projects being handed would be smaller and the implementation far more easier. Administratively it would be far much better than the mess that we have today.

Ultimately, it would be impossible that nobody indulges in political point scoring, try to carve provinces on ethno-linguistic lines and cement their political positions; but it is time that we accept the fact that creation of a number of provinces is in our own benefit, embrace the idea and try to achieve a more cohesive, unified state that focuses on social welfare.

It would indeed strengthen the state for the bond of nationalism would continue to exist, regardless of provincial demarcations.

Zaki Bhai

You see how can the chief minister of Punjab can take care such a vast land of Punjab? it is really hard for him to make development plans. He is mostly familiar with Lahore and sorrounding areas and not all of Punjab. He distribute money among his peoples to spend money on several projects but he cannot keep an eye on everybody and major chunk of that money goes in corruption. I believe if you have less territory under control you can better spend your money on infrastracture and development projects and you have more brains to think and work on your country.

You find all these countries growing up rapidly and one of the prime reason is that when the budget is made the money does not go ony one person's pocket but distributed in such a way where you can keep an eye on every single chief minister and his projects. There is a kind of a competition between states and all the states are growing to perform better than one another. They have their allocated budgets and the chief minister has its own team to work on its area.

For example South Punjab will be competing with West Punjab if almost equal budget was given to them and end of the year they will have a progress report in media anyway and the peoples will be able to decide about their progress more thoroughly

Agnostic Muslim

Who cares? All the 'tukray' are still in Pakistan are they not? Other than that they are just administrative entities within the Pakistani Federation.

So long as they do not discriminate against people from other provinces moving around and settling wherever they wish, it should not be an issue.

 

[sparklingway]

But we have more privinces say 10 provinces the allocated budget will be distributed to 10 provinces instead of 4 and they will have better approach to the local citizens of Pakistan and will know which project is more important. Obviously if they don't perform well they will be replaced by somebody else so everybody will have a kind of a comptetion to work better than another province. For example South Punjab will be competing with West Punjab if almost equal budget was given to them and end of the year they will have a progress report in media anyway and the peoples will be able to decide about their progress more thoroughly

Indeed. In small provinces, coalition governments would not be the norm and we could even have direct elections for CMs. For >10 provinces, I find the idea of a Governor pointless as in such a small province a governor's job would of no practical or political purposes and the province can be governed directly be a directly elected CM. People will be able to evaluate performance much more easily and we can see improvement in our political structure. It would be easier for people to rise to political offices as well.

 

[Zee-Gen]

@ Sparklingway

Abbotabad seems a right choice because it would then divert urban growth from Rawalpindi and allow a more focused developmental approach towards the area. Provincial/state capitals are small cities in most countries anyways

Haripur a plain, industrial and agriculture based, and Mansehra larger and more populous cities are also in Hazara division, would they agree when even they have more political power than Abbottabad…..????

I really like this Potohar idea because there is linguistic and ethnic diversity to a certain extent but not really big enough o cause communal clashes. People from Hazara migrate to Rawalpindi for employment a lot of them anyways.

Sir je, A big difference is ethnicity, although culturally and linguistically they are similar…..but this will also increase the population flux towards new capital from inside Hazara and in case Abbottabad will be the capital, will cause same situation as of Lahore……the biggest problem is not the creation of provinces, but to handle them……one big issue is quota system…….I am giving you an example, here in Abbottabad only banking, electricity, gas and education are the key departments for Govt. Job and to your surprise, all the key positions in a department filled by Pushto speaking people because of quota and guess who are allotting quota…..????.......local body system is the best way to “deliver”, but it has its own drawbacks.

My thinking is only honest and sincere governance plus local body system, and 2-3 sub-divisions of Balochistan and Sariki province is a more realistic approach towards betterment than creating hell of new provinces.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Fundamentalist

Sir please focus on provinces for now. Religious debate should be kept in an other thread.


Regards

 

[waraich66]

Fundamentalist

Sir please focus on provinces for now. Religious debate should be kept in an other thread.


Regards

Division of muslims on basis of race ,colour,language is not allowed ,Islam is simple for those who want to understand.

I think there should be no province on basis of language ,colour or race , all provinces should be merged and small distts can be made only for effective administration.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Division of muslims on basis of race ,colour,language is not allowed ,Islam is simple for those who want to understand.

I think there should be no province on basis of language ,colour or race , all provinces should be merged and small distt can be made only for effective administration.

The second part of your post.
This theory is a counter argument in a way. I have a question for you. So how will you make small distt for effective administration?
You said no race, language or colour so whats left to look upon..

You will just mark lines on the map?

 

[waraich66]

The second part of your post.
This theory is a counter argument in a way. I have a question for you. So how will you make small distt for effective administration?
You said no race, language or colour so whats left to look upon..

You will just mark lines on the map?

One unit will resolve all problems of colour,race and language , do you agree with it or not ?

Distt Nazim system is sucessfull all over the world , it should be strengthen.


The One Unit policy was regarded as a rational administrative reform to reduce expenditure and eliminate provincial prejudices. However the military coup of 1958 signalled troubled times for the two-province system as the office of Chief Minister of West Pakistan was abolished by President Ayub Khan to be replaced by Governor's rule. Eventually, in 1970, the province of West Pakistan was dissolved by President Yahya Khan and four new provinces were created along with some changes in Pakistani Kashmir. These provinces combined most of the former provinces and states as follows:

Four Provinces created by Gen Yahya Khan , it was wrong decision from a stupid and non sense miltery dictator.