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New provinces and provincial autonomy

Islam also dont allow division on basis of race or colour

What Islam Prohibits is to look down on others on the basis of race, language or color. Islam does not ask you to kill your identity. In quran it is said "O Mankind!Most certainly, it isWe( God almighty)who have Created you all From a single (pair) Of a male and a female, And it is we who Have made you into Nations and tribes,That ye may recognise each other (Not that ye may despise each other).Verily, the noblest of you In the sight of Allah Is (he who is) the most
Righteous of you."Holy Quran 49:13.

The term of Muhajareen and ansar was coined during the time of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) but He never objected. Moreover Islamic histroy is full of identification by the area terms like Basari, Kofi , Maki were widespread.
 
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What Islam Prohibits is to look down on others on the basis of race, language or color. Islam does not ask you to kill your identity. In quran it is said "O Mankind!Most certainly, it isWe( God almighty)who have Created you all From a single (pair) Of a male and a female, And it is we who Have made you into Nations and tribes,That ye may recognise each other (Not that ye may despise each other).Verily, the noblest of you In the sight of Allah Is (he who is) the most
Righteous of you."Holy Quran 49:13.

The term of Muhajareen and ansar was coined during the time of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) but He never objected. Moreover Islamic histroy is full of identification by the area terms like Basari, Kofi , Maki were widespread.

we shouldnt be using the verses of the holy quran to justify the actions of ethno nationalist parties. these parties and their actions are against the principles of islam.
 
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we shouldnt be using the verses of the holy quran to justify the actions of ethno nationalist parties. these parties and their actions are against the principles of islam.

I am not doing it in favor of any party. What I am saying is identification on the basis of region or language is not against the principles of Islam.
I am strongly in favour of making provinces especially Punjab should be divided atleast into three.
 
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PML-N was only political party to discourage for more provinces but yesterday they said they will support for Hazara

dil tor diya, ab humara favorite party Tehreek-e-Insaf ho gaya ha
 
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I am not doing it in favor of any party. What I am saying is identification on the basis of region or language is not against the principles of Islam.
I am strongly in favour of making provinces especially Punjab should be divided atleast into three.

If NWFP renamed on basis of islamic names no one have any objection , naming province on basis of pushtons is objectionable.

Punjab is back bone of Pakistan , dividing Punjab will be suicidel.
 
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only insane peoples will not support more provinces :angry:

Dividing provinces does not mean dividing the unity. 10 Chief ministers can better take care of 170 million peoples rather than 4-5 chief ministers only.
 
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only insane peoples will not support more provinces :angry:

Dividing provinces does not mean dividing the unity. 10 Chief ministers can better take care of 170 million peoples rather than 4-5 chief ministers only.

Who will pay double admin. cost ? IMF or World Bank?:lol:

First step is to pay off the 40-50 Billion USD debt by increasing the tax collection and by decreasing the non productive and defence expenses then adminstration expenses can be increased.

Paly ne delah te kardi mela mela
 
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Targeting Punjab is nothing new, when the treacherous Bengalis were revolting against Pakistan, their slogan was:

'MARO SALA PANJABI!'

Today buckets of tears are shed by residents of Punjab over what one may ask and why ?!?! Do people consider the following facts?

Was Zulfikar Ali Bhutto from Punjab ? NO! He was from Sindh

Was Yahya Khan from Punjab! NO! He was from Frontier

Was Gen Niazi a Panjabi ?! Technically NO! , he was from Minawali (from Niazi tribe, same tribe as Imran Khan)
Was The Bihari vs Bengali rivalry due to Punjab ? NO! (Bihari by the way were Urdu-speaking and where as Banglis spoke 'Bangla' and both have long history of rivalry going back much further than 1971 )

In last 10 years context:

Was Mush bhagora Panjabi ?! NO! He was Urdu speaking

Is Asif Ali Zardai Panjabi?! NO! President is Sindhi

Well what about current Prime Minister?! Well surprise surprise , Yousaf Raza Gilani is from so called the 'South Punjab' belt ( Multan ) as is our Foreign Minster ( Shah Muhammad Qureshi )

So where the hell does 'na-insafi' by 'Punjabis' against others comes from?!?!

One thing however is quite obvious that using Punjab’s name to stoke up resentment is a tool that’s been used time and again by politicians from other provinces and ( now ) even by politicians from Punjab itself ( case being the statement of Ch Shujat that 'Punjab should not take the rights of others blah blah' )

During the Long March for the restoration of the Chief Justice the disturbances that were seen in the streets of Lahore were not just about the Chief Justice , many felt that Punjab Chief minister has been pointedly sacked against the wishes of the people who voted for him and all Shabaz Sharif had to do was call out 'Jag Panjabi Jag' only on the sides of the rally and a flood of people went on a rampage.

In the end the Army stepped in and better sense prevalied.

The politics of targeting Punjab was not new in the sacking of the Chief Minster but what was new was the call to 'Jag Panjabi Jag' and its fallout.

Lets not be stupid , Any attempt to redraw Panjab's administrative boundaries will indeed be suicidal and this dividing business will not stop at the province level , it will get down to the city level as well and the first city that will go on the chopping board will be Karachi.

Lyari is by and large a Baloch settlement and by now Sohrab Goth and surrounding areas are all Pukthtoon and Karachi has history of violence between various factions which leads to disruptions in daily life. Also KESC ( Karachi electricity Supply Comapny ) is down in the dumps and despite the tall claims about the Management skills of Mustafa Kamal , KESC is heading for disaster.

In the long run if the provinces will be divided into samller entites ‘for better governance’ then definitely the larger cities will also go on the chopping board ‘for better governance’ .

None of this is in the interest of the state not withstanding whatever grudge may be held against Punjab.
 
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Targeting Punjab is nothing new, when the treacherous Bengalis were revolting against Pakistan, their slogan was:

'MARO SALA PANJABI!'

Calling a nation which sacrificed more towards the creation of an independent state for the Muslims of the subcontinent as traitors is something you should be ashamed of. I'm not going to remind you of what their sacrifices were but the headline of an Urdu newspaper following the Bhola cyclone read "Bhooka Bangali toofan mein doob gaya". I have seen the newspaper myself so I'm not basing my accounts on anecdotal or fictitious evidence. Mind your words next time.

Opposition to devolution of power mainly comes from two groups of people:-

1. Feudals, the landed aristocracy and the traditional Military-Civil Oligarchs:-

They seek utter domination over state resources and power. Totalitarian, Autocratic and authoritarian ways do not allow for debate, dissent, transparency and distribution of power.

2. Uneducated (not necessarily illiterate) people with myopic views:-

They have been taught that creation of new provinces is the voice of "traitors" who rely on "foreign elements" and any such calls are inevitably sinister moves to destroy Pakistan and Islam.

Devolution of power is a central concept in state administrative efficiency. Our colonial system of governance relied on the top most officer having nearly unlimited powers as whenever the state demanded, stringent and all encompassing action had to be taken. The model continues to date where the officers of the Federal Secretary and Joint Secretary hold nearly universal powers and push subjugate officers to do as they wish. In provincial bureaucracy, the Chief Secretary is like a dictator who keeps tabs on everybody. Middle level officers of the DMG have been found by various studies to be the least satisfied with their jobs, for they have no financial, administrative or managerial authority and fresh from the academies, all their vigor and passion is rendered useless when they face a system where they have no administrative powers to bring change to the people.

Devolution of powers to the lowest level definitely involves creation of smaller administrative regions besides the necessary change in the mode of governance of the bureaucracy. It would be better for a peasant to go to Multan from Rahim Yar Khan to pursue legal counsel or file complaints at the highest levels than it is to go to Lahore. Public access to state machinery will become easier and less time consuming for the public. People living in big urban areas do not understand this for they already have access to government offices within driving distances (leaving aside the problem of getting access to officials and filing complaints).

Even after 14 or 16 years of education, if one finds people who are unable to academically argue over such matters, then I'm at a loss as to where free thinking has been lost. You don't necessarily have to agree with me to be a free thinker, you have to have some solid argument to prove that creation of new provinces and new demarcations will somehow shatter the federation and destroy the state. The state would only become stronger, the federation more unified if new provinces are created. I am yet to see a sound argument as to how the Federation would become weak in the wake of such a move.
 
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Pakistan's Balkanization - GupShup Forums


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More provinces?

Rasul Bakhsh Rais is professor of political science at LUMS.

April 19, 2010

Demand for creating new provinces out of the existing four is not as new as many people might think.

Once the infamous one-unit scheme that had merged all the provinces and the princely states into West Pakistan in 1954 to create parity with then East Pakistan was disbanded in 1969, the peoples of Bahawalpur agitated for restoring autonomous character of the former state as a province.

The demand was so popular that a large number of nominees of the Bahawalpur Suba Mahaz won elections for the Punjab and National Assembly. The movement subsequently died down but the passion never did. Although the political actors and the dynamics that shaped them have changed a lot, one can still feel occasional rumbling of that movement.

In recent months we have seen the political class from that region, with less control than dynastic political parties, speaking their mind on the issue openly and threatening to launch a fresh move. The impetus for dividing and demarcating existing provinces has got steam from the debate on the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa issue.

It cannot be ignored and has created backlash in the non-Pashtun regions of Hazara and the southern Seraiki belt. What is wrong in naming a province after the majority ethnic group? This is what the people of the province want. While the constitutional requirements for choosing a new name were met, the democratic credentials of the process remain a suspect.

How should the renaming have been done? Ideally it should have been referred to the people directly –a referendum should have been held and if they voted for it then the name should have been changed. This is a process that is universally accepted for creating or naming states or creating provinces.

Perhaps the ANP, long associated with ethnic politics of the region, was not so sure about winning its demand through free and fair referendum or the fears of chaos in a time of raging terrorism might have deterred it from taking that route. The party played a game of politics, as mainstream parties were desperate for constitutional amendments and needed the support of the regional parties.

At the end, it was an inter-elite political bargain, an evergreen characteristic of Pakistani politics that settled the issue in favour of the ANP. An ethnic name for a multi-ethnic province that is culturally and linguistically as diverse as any other province of Pakistan will ignite latent political forces in every province of Pakistan. The latter in turn will demand that provincial status to be given to other minority ethnic groups as well.

The question on the minds of many people is whether or not more provinces are a better solution for the kind of politics and governance the helpless peoples of Pakistan have endured for 6 decades. Maybe, maybe not. The provinces of Pakistan and their boundaries have evolved over centuries and contain diverse ethnic groups that intersperse into other provinces as well; a true ethnic mosaic shaped by migration, conquest and modernization.

Undoing historical entities like the Punjab, Sindh and more so Balochistan with a clear dividing line between the Baloch and the Pashtun in the main but with other ethnic groups like Brahavi, Sindhi and Mekran Baloch may provoke sentiments of ‘divide and rule’. The question of redrawing provincial boundaries and creating new ones must be referred to the people, and not left to the ruling groups.

Even breaking down larger provinces into smaller units along ethnic or administrative lines alone will not benefit the peoples or bring a fundamental change in the quality of governance without a real change in the rule of law regime and representative character of the ruling elites.

PS:- Dr Rais is one of my favourite authors on political science in Pakistan.
 
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More provinces?

Rasul Bakhsh Rais is professor of political science at LUMS.

April 19, 2010

Demand for creating new provinces out of the existing four is not as new as many people might think.

Once the infamous one-unit scheme that had merged all the provinces and the princely states into West Pakistan in 1954 to create parity with then East Pakistan was disbanded in 1969, the peoples of Bahawalpur agitated for restoring autonomous character of the former state as a province.

The demand was so popular that a large number of nominees of the Bahawalpur Suba Mahaz won elections for the Punjab and National Assembly. The movement subsequently died down but the passion never did. Although the political actors and the dynamics that shaped them have changed a lot, one can still feel occasional rumbling of that movement.

In recent months we have seen the political class from that region, with less control than dynastic political parties, speaking their mind on the issue openly and threatening to launch a fresh move. The impetus for dividing and demarcating existing provinces has got steam from the debate on the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa issue.

It cannot be ignored and has created backlash in the non-Pashtun regions of Hazara and the southern Seraiki belt. What is wrong in naming a province after the majority ethnic group? This is what the people of the province want. While the constitutional requirements for choosing a new name were met, the democratic credentials of the process remain a suspect.

How should the renaming have been done? Ideally it should have been referred to the people directly –a referendum should have been held and if they voted for it then the name should have been changed. This is a process that is universally accepted for creating or naming states or creating provinces.

Perhaps the ANP, long associated with ethnic politics of the region, was not so sure about winning its demand through free and fair referendum or the fears of chaos in a time of raging terrorism might have deterred it from taking that route. The party played a game of politics, as mainstream parties were desperate for constitutional amendments and needed the support of the regional parties.

At the end, it was an inter-elite political bargain, an evergreen characteristic of Pakistani politics that settled the issue in favour of the ANP. An ethnic name for a multi-ethnic province that is culturally and linguistically as diverse as any other province of Pakistan will ignite latent political forces in every province of Pakistan. The latter in turn will demand that provincial status to be given to other minority ethnic groups as well.

The question on the minds of many people is whether or not more provinces are a better solution for the kind of politics and governance the helpless peoples of Pakistan have endured for 6 decades. Maybe, maybe not. The provinces of Pakistan and their boundaries have evolved over centuries and contain diverse ethnic groups that intersperse into other provinces as well; a true ethnic mosaic shaped by migration, conquest and modernization.

Undoing historical entities like the Punjab, Sindh and more so Balochistan with a clear dividing line between the Baloch and the Pashtun in the main but with other ethnic groups like Brahavi, Sindhi and Mekran Baloch may provoke sentiments of ‘divide and rule’. The question of redrawing provincial boundaries and creating new ones must be referred to the people, and not left to the ruling groups.

Even breaking down larger provinces into smaller units along ethnic or administrative lines alone will not benefit the peoples or bring a fundamental change in the quality of governance without a real change in the rule of law regime and representative character of the ruling elites.

PS:- Dr Rais is one of my favourite authors on political science in Pakistan.

Real problem is restoration of rule of law,justice and peace , in which government is failed now they wanted to inject the poision of nationalisim (pushtoon,punjabi,saraiki,sindhi,balouchi,kashmiri) in sick body of nation to further weaken it, Pakistani nation want justice, rule of law and peace ,prosperity nothing else , which can be restored by implementation of sharia law only.
 
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Make new provinces
Monday, April 26, 2010
Saleem Safi

Demands for creation of new provinces, which have been made for many decades, have been spurred by the renaming of one of the federating units. The idea cannot be rejected out of hand, for many reasons.

These include huge differences in size, economic disparities, distortions in distribution of resources, ethnic deprivations and the local population’s little or no say in the affairs of the federation. This situation has created bitter prejudices in smaller provinces.

The demands could be accepted if creation of new provinces could facilitate smooth running of the country, create harmony among people and help mitigate ethnic, linguistic, and other prejudices among the federating units. However, most of the proponents of creation of new provinces demand division of existing provinces along historical, ethnic, linguistic and geographical fault lines, which is destined to enflame ethnic tensions.

If Bahawalpur demands the status of a province on the basis of its separate status in the British colonial India, then opponents may very well make the argument that the history of the region does not stop at that point of time. It goes farther to the times of the emergence of Muslim rule and, before that, Hindu kingdoms in the subcontinent.

Ethnicity is an untenable criterion for a separate province. Carving out new provinces on this criterion would cause further destabilisation. If adopted, this yardstick would push Balochistan to demand some regions currently under the administrative control of Sindh and Punjab to be declared its integral part. Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa will scramble for getting the western parts of Balochistan. It will also lay claims to Mianwali and Attock of Punjab. Such reorganisation will not get Hazara the status of a new province as most of the Hindko-speaking tribes there are ethnic Pakhtuns. Eventually, the province will be happy to extend into other provinces’ regions, but it will also have to cope with the grief of losing its Saraiki-speaking areas, which will automatically gravitate towards a Saraiki province. The province of Sindh would be a scene of intense ethnic struggles.

Language will also become a problem criterion. In Pakistan, no part of the country can be declared a single-language unit. Local dialects of the major languages apart, all provinces are inhabited by people from other provinces who do not share the language of the host province or region. If it is ever accepted as the criterion for new provinces, language would most likely create unpleasant scenarios. One of the likely scenarios will be mass migration among regions and provinces thus creating the spectre of hate and ethnic atrocities. This migration will also be accompanied by painful economic displacements.

Secondly, if the minorities in any city, region or province are to be satisfied, their adopted provinces and districts have to be divided in very small units so that they get a separate province. For example, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and its capital, Peshawar, and cities like Chitral and Gilgit and Hindko-speaking Hazara and Saraiki-speaking Dera Ismail Khan will become small ethnic enclaves and not meet the characteristics of provinces. In the case of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, division on this criterion may not bring much trouble eventuality, but it certainly will spell disaster for Karachi and Hyderabad, where Urdu-speaking people are in majority but Punjabis, Sindhis, Pakhtuns and other people also live there in large numbers.

Notwithstanding the difficulties in the creation of new provinces on the abovementioned criteria, larger provinces do not help the cause of devolution of power to the grassroots level, social democratisation, public empowerment and efficient and effective public service delivery. Similarly, effective administration of a geographical unit demands that the area under its command is easily accessible and manageable for the government.

For this very reason, new provinces must be created where the seat and centre of power is close to the people being governed. Smaller provinces will improve law enforcement to protect basic rights of the people as enshrined in the Constitution and create a culture of democratic accountability. These reasons for division of provinces into smaller units are greater in the case of our country. The democratic forces may have no problem adopting this idea, nor will the establishment. In the recent past, we have observed the Musharraf regime flirting with the district governments concept. Musharraf never tired of telling all and sundry that the basic purpose of the district government system was solving people’s problems at their doorsteps and devolving power to the masses.

National development and good governance goals necessitate creation of new provinces by dividing the larger provinces into smaller ones, but the question is: what are the criteria to be adopted for creation of new provinces?

In the current scenario, the only option that seems feasible and probably acceptable to the democratic forces is declaring the administrative Divisions in all federating units as new provinces. This option would strike ethnicity, language, ethnicity, history and all other factors out of the equation. The division will also spare the people and the country of the consequences they will be made to bear otherwise. Pakistan has 27 divisions, FATA, and Azad Kashmir. This distribution has hardly been opposed by any force in the country. So declaring Divisions as provinces after dissolution of all federating units, the capital territory, FATA, Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan into 30-or-so smaller provinces, will evoke no adverse reaction. Resultantly, the federation will be strengthened and Pakistan will become more democratic and prosperous.

The writer works for Geo TV. Email: saleem. safi@janggroup.com.pk
 
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When a state is broken firstly the natural resources are divided. Then even if the resources are present in the state it loses the economies of scales for the resource. This is the biggest reason stated against breaking bigger states.


Forming new states is always viewed as the first step towards disintegration and break away of that region. It also gives voices to many other voices for formation of new states and also the formation of new countries .


If you end up having many small states it becomes very easy for central government to bully these states.
Bigger states have the power of not being bullied by center and rather can sometimes force the center to take their word seriously.


More the states are formed obviously the administrative costs increase. New capitals are required to be formed which includes huge infrastructure costs. Also whole new state departments are required to be formed which results in huge salary costs. Forming new states leads to an inefficient use of the manpower.


The question is whether the country is ready for a transition at this point of time.
 
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New PROVINCES are strongly needed for PAKISTAN !
Atleat MORE THAN 8 !
TURKEY , INDIA etc have more than 20 PROVINCES and we are still at 4 !
 
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