Nawaz Sharif seeks parity with India

[Contrarian]

Nawaz Sharif seeks parity with India​

Any hopes that Pakistan may embark on a new course in its ties with the United States — and India — have been laid to rest even before Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif meets President Obama at the White House on Wednesday afternoon. In a speech at the US Institute of Peace (USIP) some 24 hours before he is to meet Obama, MNS delivered the stock Pakistani wish list, despite the Obama administration having shot down each of them in the hours and days before the meeting viz.,

US should mediate between India and Pakistan particularly on the Kashmir issue (Washington has said no several times);
US should offer Pakistan a civilian-nuclear deal like the one it did to India (fat chance, the US has said); and
US should stop drone strikes inside Pakistan (We will when we’ve taken out the last terrorist, the Obama administration has indicated).

On the last point, Sharif was evidently emboldened by a Amnesty International/Human Rights report that pilloried the US for civilian deaths associated with drone strikes, but some of the key accounts in the report are already being questioned in the online media. Besides, the White House has already pushing back against the report. But on the other two issues relating to India — it’s the same old, same old. Besides, allowing wicked Indian diplomats to chuckle about “who’s being the dehati aurat now?” it also suggests that far from allowing Miansahib to get on with a new foreign policy paradigm, the Pakistani military is still calling the shots.

You can almost hear the Obama folks, who’ve been trying to walk Pakistan away from its India-fixation, banging their heads against the wall, although my sense is they knew/know what was coming (same old, same old). Which is why the protocol for MNS is anything but dazzling, as Ejaz Haider has snarkily pointed out here. Not only was Obama out playing golf with his White House staff on Sunday, leaving MNS to call on secretary of state Kerry (although as Ejaz points out charitably, MNS is also Pakistan’s foreign minister), MNS had to wait two days in Washington for a White House meeting while Obama had been in town all along doing other things. If the WH had sensed (doubtless from good, clear NSA intercepts) that Pakistan was ready to change its stars or stripes, they would have laid out the band-baaja with lunch or dinner thrown in.

Instead, Obama isn’t even feeding him lunch on Wednesday. The White House schedule shows Obama having lunch with Vice President Joe Biden before he meets Sharif, AFTER LUNCH. Really, how bad is it really if Obama prefers to have lunch with his bloviator vice president??? Hell, even MMS got a “working lunch” despite the fact that he may be serving out his last few months!

The good news Pakistanis can carry home though is first lady Michelle Obama (joined by Dr Jill Biden) will not only host tea for Kulsoom Nawaz, but thereafter entertain her with a poetry recital, ostensibly because she holds a Master’s degree in Urdu literature, although whether she will appreciate former US poet laureate Billy Collins (who I met and heard at TED last year and absolutely loved) is another matter. Still, bully for Pak. They’ll probably think this is so much more than what Mrs Gursharan Kaur got (only tea), although the truth is Mrs K hoofed off to be present at the investiture ceremony of DC Appeals Court judge Sri Srinivasan not waiting for any White House song and dance.

But such is the burning Pakistani desire for one-upmanship vis-à-vis India that they must have gone looking for a judge whose swearing in they could have Mrs MNS attend. You can see and hear this desperate yearning for being tagged with India in every one of MNS’ speeches, but the sad fact is Pakistan is in a different league altogether. For all the positive noises and optics aimed at creating a congenial atmosphere around the visit, Pakistan is now known as a terrorist state, or to put it more politely, a state that nourishes, entertains, and uses terrorists.

You don’t have to hear this from American or Indian commentators. There are many Pakistanis who are saying this openly, and one of them, Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s ambassador to the US, has been embarrassing the travelling circus with brilliant testimonials about the garrison state’s ties to terrorism. Of course, in the eyes of ultranationalist Pakistanis, he’s a traitor, in the same vein as Dr Shakil Afridi, who helped US nail Osama bin Laden.

In fact, I’m surprised that US lawmakers who MNS met today did not make a case for springing him, since the scales have fallen from their eyes (in most cases) about the true nature of the Pakistani state. Here is an example of Congressional reaction to meeting MNS, an event that involved close questioning on the Lashkar-e-Taiba. It has also not escaped the American media that Washington is doling out US tax payer dollars to a Pakistan that is extracting American blood in Afghanistan at a time when the US itself is in debt. “US resuming aid to Pakistan as national debt passes $17 trillion” read the headline on Fox News, always ready to take a swipe at the Obama administration, although it was the Bush administration which accelerated the “let’s buy Pakistan’s loyalty” program, a strategy that is questioned even by Husain Haqqani (who didn’t mind the lolly coming in as long as he was ambassador).

But Denialistan, living in some cuckoo land (a new Pakistani poll shows 59 per cent of Pakistanis believe US was responsible for 9/11) just doesn’t get all this. After the masterpiece in his UN speech about Pakistan being a “responsible nuclear power,” poor MNS had to ply another military-vetted speech at the USIP in which he said, with a straight face that, “Pakistan is neither source of nor epicentre of terrorism.” Towards the end of the speech, he was comparing the founding fathers of Pakistan of his moth-eaten state with those of the US and even brought the Sermon on the Mount into play. You can hear all of it here, including the 182 times he clears his throat, which suggests that he has a throat infection and which begs the question – what happens when world leaders have a bug (the real one); do they avoid shaking hands?

The military of course has remained in the shadows during Sharif’s visit. He is being projected as a civilian prime minister, an elected leader of a Pakistan that has effected a smooth transition of power for the first time in history yada yada yada. But long-time Pakistan watchers know the khakis are never too far in the shadows and everything that Sharif has said so far on his U.S visit suggests they still in control on the foreign policy front. He’s just fronting for a military that has been starved of $$$ and new toys for a few years now. The $ 1.6 billion American largess, including an immediate transfer of $ 322 million under the CSF — is the biggest takeaway from this visit. More to follow, as we say in journalese.

Nawaz Sharif parrots same old li(n)es in US

 

[Bang Galore]

Related:

Strategic, someone said?

By Ejaz Haider

Let’s begin with the issue of protocol. The idea is grounded in the two concepts of equality and reciprocity. Ministers call on prime ministers and presidents, not the other way round.

In Pakistan’s case, our degradation begins with the violation of protocol. The prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, ended up going to the State Department to hold talks with Secretary of State, John Kerry. The meeting was followed by a working dinner. Nothing new in this. In 1998, Prime Minister Sharif went to the Pentagon and met with then Secretary of Defence William Cohen.

Perhaps I am nit-picking. It could well be that Mr Sharif met with Mr Kerry in his capacity as the foreign minister of Pakistan. Today, he will meet President Barack Obama as the prime minister. In between, I suggest a visit to the Pentagon as the defence minister, and he could always swing by the office of Ms Penny Pritzker as the commerce minister.

Ah! But I forget. Mr Sharif did get full protocol at Joint Base Andrews. I feel so relieved.

Now to the ‘strategic dialogue’ under the revived mechanism. (Aside: I love diplomatese.) But lest the more uncharitable ones call it lying, it’s not. Diplomatese is about withholding the truth, thank you.

Fortunately, I have no reason to do that. The strategic spread of US-Pakistan relations covers about as much as a string bikini and that’s not new. That has always been the case, pronouncements on both sides, more on ours than theirs, notwithstanding.

Strategic relations are about mutual interests. I cannot think of any time since the visit to the US by Liaquat Ali Khan when the two sides shared the same vision even as Pakistan was declared the ‘most allied ally’ of the United States. Examples abound but much is already known so I shall skip that part like I do the ads on banned YouTube clips.

The point is simple. The US sits atop the security architecture it created after the Second World War and has since tried to sustain. It has to deal with every country in the world; well, almost. It has both core and peripheral interests. It fights overtly and covertly for both. Its divides the world into two categories: its allies and its enemies. The ‘allies’ category itself is sub-divided into two: permanent and temporary. With the first it deals strategically; with the second, tactically and under pressure of the immediacy of the situation. The tactical alliances have strategic significance for it in the larger picture but for the lesser state to think that an invitation to Camp David (Pervez Musharraf is a case in point) means the relations are strategic for it too is to willingly suspend disbelief.

Here’s the reality of the strategic alliance, taking 2000 as the cut-off year: President Clinton comes to Pakistan on March 25 for a few hours. He was returning from a five-day visit to India. President Bush came to Pakistan for a day, arriving March 3, 2006, and leaving the next day. President Obama, the man who wants Pakistan to play a very important role while he pulls troops out of Afghanistan in 2014 has yet to visit the important ‘strategic’ ally. Of his various visits abroad, he has been to Ghana and the Vatican City!

Obama’s other significant contributions to promoting strategic ties include ensuring the vast networks of spies inside Pakistan, which the CIA began putting on the ground during the Bush period, was made vaster and more reliable (the Raymond Davis episode is a good reminder of that); ingressing into Pakistani territory (Abbottabad); killing with deadly force 24 personnel of the Pakistan Army (Salala); refusing to apologise for Salala, et cetera.

But, if truth be told, much of what has happened and is likely to happen is owed to our poltroonery. Since we cannot manage our affairs and since, at the end of the day, we always run to Blair House, to use a metaphor, the US can do unto us what it wishes and we must take what is thrown us. Small wonder then that unlike the Melians, we cannot even ask the Athenian generals “And how, pray, could it turn out as good for us to serve as for you to rule?”

This is not a case against the US, it’s a case against us. The US is a world power, like it or not. Pakistan, like other countries, has to deal with it. But strategic relations are a function of interesting the world, not worrying it. I started with the issue of protocol. It wasn’t hair-splitting. It is a manifestation of how we look at ourselves. The external world is not going to grant us anything more than what we grant ourselves — in fact, less.

So, yes, the US needs us right now. It has to get out of Afghanistan. We have to help it do that. But does it go beyond that? Only to the extent that the US would want this area to be free of terrorism because that, in case we forget, is about the US’ strategic interest. Is it in ours too? I hope so. Because only then we could hope to build something that might look like a strategic relationship.

In other words, we have to embrace realism. Those who think that hawkish chest-beating is realism need to go back to an IR class because nothing could be further from truth. Ideological approaches constrain realist choices.

Finally, to be even-handed on the issue of protocol, this is what I had written during the PPP government when I saw the late Ambassador Holbrooke addressing a joint presser in Islamabad:

“… frankly, what was this freak show in Islamabad with the President of Pakistan standing in attendance like a spineless wonder?

“Did protocol demand that the president be in attendance when Holbrooke is holding a press conference with the foreign minister? … In fact, if protocol be made the benchmark, even the foreign minister should not have been there.

“Protocol is not snobbery; it is about the dignity of a government and that of the state and society it represents.”

Strategic, someone said? – The Express Tribune

 

[Capt.Popeye]

[B]Nawaz Sharif seeks parity with India [/B]
That is the title of this thread. But the reality on the ground is rather different and is slated to remain so.
Any hopes and talks of "parity" evaporated when the "de-hyphenation" of India and Pakistan in World Relations took place. And a great deal of it (if not all of it) took place simply due to Pakistan's own acts (of ommission and commission).

That "hyphenation" was an act (largely of USA and some NATO countries) done even out of charity and solely to assuage the Paksitani ego; sp. in its last stages. Now even that pretence has disappeared.

However a nice person Nawaz Sharif may be and however lofty his intentions for the region; this 'holy grail of parity' is just a chimera.
He will be better advised to first seek to achieve "parity in Economic Clout, parity in Diplomatic Clout, parity in Strategic Strength, parity in Moral Standing". Else he will likely remain just a lonely voice in the wilderness.

 

[Contrarian]

[B]Nawaz Sharif seeks parity with India [/B]
That is the title of this thread. But the reality on the ground is rather different and is slated to remain so.
Any hopes and talks of "parity" evaporated when the "de-hyphenation" of India and Pakistan in World Relations took place. And a great deal of it (if not all of it) took place simply due to Pakistan's own acts (of ommission and commission).

That "hyphenation" was an act (largely of USA and some NATO countries) done even out of charity and solely to assuage the Paksitani ego; sp. in its last stages. Now even that pretence has disappeared.

However a nice person Nawaz Sharif may be and however lofty his intentions for the region; this 'holy grail of parity' is just a chimera.
He will be better advised to first seek to achieve "parity in Economic Clout, parity in Diplomatic Clout, parity in Strategic Strength, parity in Moral Standing". Else he will likely remain just a lonely voice in the wilderness.

This is something Pakistani's are only beginning to realize.

Though you will appreciate that the older generation of Pakistani's - those born before say the 1980's will find hard to accept. The newer generation tends to be more docile - accepts the difference that India will be treated differently than Pakistan. Its the older generation that has seen Pakistan being the true equal of India in every sphere for the greater part of their lives.
They find it unacceptable to see that things have changed and are changing.

 

[Leviza]

This is something Pakistani's are only beginning to realize.

Though you will appreciate that the older generation of Pakistani's - those born before say the 1980's will find hard to accept. The newer generation tends to be more docile - accepts the difference that India will be treated differently than Pakistan. Its the older generation that has seen Pakistan being the true equal of India in every sphere for the greater part of their lives.
They find it unacceptable to see that things have changed and are changing.

lol, we all Pakistanis knows who's our enemy and who is the main source behind all terrorist...

We will one by one taken them all down, so wait for your turn
New generation is more hard on india... they want to solve the issues with war specially Kashmir, its the older generation which is keeping things normal...

 

[Bang Galore]

lol, we all Pakistanis knows who's our enemy and who is the main source behind all terrorist...

That reply suggests you haven't a clue....so just more of the usual stuff of the TTP being RAW agents....

New generation is more hard on india... they want to solve the issues with war specially Kashmir, its the older generation which is keeping things normal...

According to you then, the new generation is also lacking in intelligence?

 

[GURU DUTT]

lol, we all Pakistanis knows who's our enemy and who is the main source behind all terrorist...

We will one by one taken them all down, so wait for your turn
New generation is more hard on india... they want to solve the issues with war specially Kashmir, its the older generation which is keeping things normal...

you realli are so naive or you are in denial ....well the root of all extremism lies in your society which in deu corse of time has become to hostile to anyone who says anything which they think is unislamic or agaist the values you were foerce fed since you were infants


it was pakistanies who started pushing hatred in minds of very young children to feul the afghan jihad all these tallibunies , bhatta culture , klashinikov and drugs culture are part and parcel of the same deal which your establishment kept a blind eye and even help them to propogate there views on local population as it suited there and there masters cause then

now when the job was done and your master had bigger issues like stray soviet neukes & dissarmament and making new freinds in a new world it abandoned you but yopur establishments stupidity dint stop there and they still fed these tallibunni goons to control afghansitan and bleed india dry and totalli ignoared the costs and now since they find themselfs cornered by there own past mistakes they rake up the victim card and are still reluctant to finish there so called strategick assests

pakistan was/is never on the same playing field as india cause india was always on the recieving end of US-Pak-China allince the onli thing that saved us was owr resolve to go ahead no matter what with owr socialist and non alinghed foreign policy of which we were made fun of

in the deu corse when pakistani establishment was enjoying the fruits of coopration with western nations perticullarli USA India was buizzy in strenthing its case against you and soviets and then russians helped us as they were always spectical about USA

so we were able to make good relations with almost all opposing parties and in the mean time indian economy came of age and all ion the new world order looked for there power and prosperity and old belives against socialism and communism died so was USA/west interst in you and tide aginst islamik jihad became order of the day of which you were so called flag bearers


so tell me why will world treat you pakistanies and your cause as they do with india when you have nothing exxept your location which too is compromised by the law less ness and anty buisness climate to give to the world and yes a population armed with largest amount of un accounted small arms which dosent believes in rule of law and human rights but are driven bu emotions and fear ...tell me why will anyone put there money on you when you yopurself are becoming your own worst enemies

 

[doppelganger]

you realli are so naive or you are in denial ....well the root of all extremism lies in your society which in deu corse of time has become to hostile to anyone who says anything which they think is unislamic or agaist the values you were foerce fed since you were infants

it was pakistanies who started pushing hatred in minds of very young children to feul the afghan jihad all these tallibunies , bhatta culture , klashinikov and drugs culture are part and parcel of the same deal which your establishment kept a blind eye and even help them to propogate there views on local population as it suited there and there masters cause then

now when the job was done and your master had bigger issues like stray soviet neukes & dissarmament and making new freinds in a new world it abandoned you but yopur establishments stupidity dint stop there and they still fed these tallibunni goons to control afghansitan and bleed india dry and totalli ignoared the costs and now since they find themselfs cornered by there own past mistakes they rake up the victim card and are still reluctant to finish there so called strategick assests

pakistan was/is never on the same playing field as india cause india was always on the recieving end of US-Pak-China allince the onli thing that saved us was owr resolve to go ahead no matter what with owr socialist and non alinghed foreign policy of which we were made fun of

in the deu corse when pakistani establishment was enjoying the fruits of coopration with western nations perticullarli USA India was buizzy in strenthing its case against you and soviets and then russians helped us as they were always spectical about USA

so we were able to make good relations with almost all opposing parties and in the mean time indian economy came of age and all ion the new world order looked for there power and prosperity and old belives against socialism and communism died so was USA/west interst in you and tide aginst islamik jihad became order of the day of which you were so called flag bearers

so tell me why will world treat you pakistanies and your cause as they do with india when you have nothing exxept your location which too is compromised by the law less ness and anty buisness climate to give to the world and yes a population armed with largest amount of un accounted small arms which dosent believes in rule of law and human rights but are driven bu emotions and fear ...tell me why will anyone put there money on you when you yopurself are becoming your own worst enemies

Guru ji spot on analysis.

But to be fair, 9/11 played a big part as well.

It was too big and in the open for the US establishment to continue being cosy with the Muslim world. Pakistan included.

The American people turned the tide. Not the American government.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

lol, we all Pakistanis knows who's our enemy and who is the main source behind all terrorist...

We will one by one taken them all down, so wait for your turn
New generation is more hard on india... they want to solve the issues with war specially Kashmir, its the older generation which is keeping things normal...

Which is precisely why every newer successive generation is getting "hammered down harder". And getting reduced to a more desperate and pathetic situation, cornered from all sides; as it were.
Maybe the newer generation is stupider than the last, is it?

 

[GURU DUTT]

Guru ji spot on analysis.

But to be fair, 9/11 played a big part as well.

It was too big and in the open for the US establishment to continue being cosy with the Muslim world. Pakistan included.

The American people turned the tide. Not the American government.

well had 9/11 not happened still things would not been much but onli delayed as there trouble makers whome pakiistani establishment reared to get free saudi oil /money and USA wepons and support to keep india on its toes would have done sothing and not to forget the interests of there masters collided with the goals of these trounble makers so some thing other could have brought same results 9/11 onli hastened/speeded the process onli thing that went wrong was that pakistanies dint judge the changing world order in time while india and indians did

 

[IND151]

@Bang Galore> interesting article

 

[IND151]

you realli are so naive or you are in denial ....well the root of all extremism lies in your society which in deu corse of time has become to hostile to anyone who says anything which they think is unislamic or agaist the values you were foerce fed since you were infants


it was pakistanies who started pushing hatred in minds of very young children to feul the afghan jihad all these tallibunies , bhatta culture , klashinikov and drugs culture are part and parcel of the same deal which your establishment kept a blind eye and even help them to propogate there views on local population as it suited there and there masters cause then

now when the job was done and your master had bigger issues like stray soviet neukes & dissarmament and making new freinds in a new world it abandoned you but yopur establishments stupidity dint stop there and they still fed these tallibunni goons to control afghansitan and bleed india dry and totalli ignoared the costs and now since they find themselfs cornered by there own past mistakes they rake up the victim card and are still reluctant to finish there so called strategick assests

pakistan was/is never on the same playing field as india cause india was always on the recieving end of US-Pak-China allince the onli thing that saved us was owr resolve to go ahead no matter what with owr socialist and non alinghed foreign policy of which we were made fun of

in the deu corse when pakistani establishment was enjoying the fruits of coopration with western nations perticullarli USA India was buizzy in strenthing its case against you and soviets and then russians helped us as they were always spectical about USA

so we were able to make good relations with almost all opposing parties and in the mean time indian economy came of age and all ion the new world order looked for there power and prosperity and old belives against socialism and communism died so was USA/west interst in you and tide aginst islamik jihad became order of the day of which you were so called flag bearers


so tell me why will world treat you pakistanies and your cause as they do with india when you have nothing exxept your location which too is compromised by the law less ness and anty buisness climate to give to the world and yes a population armed with largest amount of un accounted small arms which dosent believes in rule of law and human rights but are driven bu emotions and fear ...tell me why will anyone put there money on you when you yopurself are becoming your own worst enemies

Thanks to Zia

 

[farhan_9909]

No Doubt Pakistan is passing through the most worst time in its history.

But the passage of time will also heal all the wounds of Pakistan.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Thanks to Zia

well zia onli did what was asked for it he was at least convinced and dint mince words like the current pakistani establishment i think the biggest differnce in the pakistani establishment in 1980s and now is that the guys then were driven by a certain set of principels and the international conditions were favrable to them but those who run the show now lack that spine , attitude and moral ethos to fight it owt like a man with there imagined or present enemy and instead are driven by greed and fear rather than morlal ethos and resoponsibilty

 

[wi969ra]

haha