NATO, US, Pakistan Should Attack Uzbekistan

[wtf]

If you are going to attack Uzbekistan, you might as well declare war on Russia. Uzbekistan has strong ties to Russia (and it seems even China) and you can bet they will go ask Russia for help. China loses as much as it gains (their railroads, trade links there vs. Pak military relations) and may stay neutral.

Can't win that war.

BTW, did somebody just discover the Atlas ?(Question aimed at the newspaper article author, not at the poster). There was an attack on Lahore and on this forum I have already read calls for attacking India, nuking Afghanistan, attacking Uzbekistan, kicking USA/UK out of Afghanistan, sending military into NWFP and into FATA. The only neighbours you have left is China/Tajikistan.

 

[wtf]

we need to start thinkin about packin this so called war on terror and not expand it. to them we are a partner in crime which US committed. they will keep on attackin us unless we stop supportin US or US leaves afghanistan. its upto us

Incidentally Obama admin yesterday said that they are no longer going to use the term "War on Terror" since it is so vaguely defined.

 

[PAFAce]

I have said many times here that though you can not fence the Pak-Afg border you can lock it down.
You have the resources but hell, don’t use them.

The simplest way is to PATROL, PATROL and PATROL

Agreed 100%. The first thing I would do is control our borders and choke the Taliban in Pakistan (kind of like isolating an area on the body after a snake bite). I believe the Western border to be of far more significance currently than the Eastern, because India poses a conventional threat and we can counter those with far more ease (and if push comes to shove, we always have the a-bomb as a deterrant). On the Eastern border, however, the threat's are not only unconventional but also very consistent.

But please tell me why fencing the border won't be a better option than simply patrolling. I believe fencing + patrolling + constant surveillance (in the form of CCTV on fences and maybe UAV) would be an all-round idea, if we can afford the resources.

 

[wtf]

But please tell me why fencing the border won't be a better option than simply patrolling. I believe fencing + patrolling + constant surveillance (in the form of CCTV on fences and maybe UAV) would be an all-round idea, if we can afford the resources.

Remember Kargil ? Remember all the cross border infiltrations into India in spite of the fenced border?

Taliban or whoever can play the same game too. "Patrol, Patrol, Patrol" is something that will work, fencing - not so well.

 

[HAIDER]

When Musharraf was fencing the border along Afghanistan, it was heavily opposition and work stopped after few months. Why Karazi oppose fencing, when on the other hand , they were accusing Pakistan for cross border militancy inside Afghanistan.
Pakistan govt need to resolve Uzbek issue, because they pass through Nothern Alliance territory to reach central Afganistan. They are in too many invisible hands involve in handling these Uzbeks. Quetta is overcrowded with Uzbek and Tajik labor. No security apparatus functioning in these violent territory of Pakistan.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

If we attack Uzbekistan, we won't get any big advantage.
We will only do the dirty job for the USA which wants all the Gas in the area.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

But please tell me why fencing the border won't be a better option than simply patrolling. I believe fencing + patrolling + constant surveillance (in the form of CCTV on fences and maybe UAV) would be an all-round idea, if we can afford the resources.

Fencing assumes one important ting, you have a defined border. This you do not have as there is no agreement between Afghanistan and Pakistan on the border line.

Ok you can fence some sections but that may be a time consuming exercise going on past experiences with your fence.

First patrols are deliberately taking away the initiative from the enemy, hence the need for random tracking in the patrols. Also just a straight fence will require as you point out some form of CCTV sensors etc. This also means a single path and a somewhat simplistic patrol process. You must now station troops in static points and assume they patrol properly, which they won’t. A fence also limits your movement something you do not want in this type of situation. You need flexibility of movement, ie come from anywhere and nowhere.

Constant patrols along the vague border will cause the enemy to concentrate forces so they can move with freedom, also they will try to concentrate to attack patrols hence these patrols must be at lest company size and supported with arty and air.
There are two types of patrol to use, one that is obvious, ie always visits villages and brings medical assistance to the people. Also at the same time there should be the patrol out side the obvious. Seldom returning and out for extended periods. THAT means does not come home at night. In fact neither patrol should dash out during te day and return that night. In fact night patrols are also a big must.

Ok the terrain is not what one calls sweet. It sucks so make it work for you not them.
Deny, deny is the call, not ‘I want to go home’ each night.

This is something not done so far and will require a mix of FC and PA troops in a coy plus size, no separation, min about 2 FC and 2 PA platoons with sect mors and DS arty. Also stand by air support
Use Drones but as a wide screen so they do not give away the intended patrol path

edit:
All I am saying is nothing more than what we did in Vietnam; we owned our province not the VC.

 

[roadrunner]

The solution is very simple actually. Just turn Pakistan into a replica of the Soviet Union. No need for bombing or anything else.

Your papers please. If not, jail and deportation. Faked things can be weeded out. But this all requires intelligence, which appears to be lacking in many areas.

 

[BATMAN]

The solution is very simple actually. Just turn Pakistan into a replica of the Soviet Union. No need for bombing or anything else.

Your papers please. If not, jail and deportation. Faked things can be weeded out. But this all requires intelligence, which appears to be lacking in many areas.

Road runner, I have said this with the beginning of terror attacks back in 2007.
We could do it even better, and we not necessarily need to follow the Soviet system as it is but there is no reason also to accept some one Pakistani who's record cannot be found in NADRA database.
I know many African countries refuse to accept illegal migrants back from Europe simply because they do not posses their id papers, although their record exist with them and European states have no choice but to declare those stateless people.

No intelligence efforts can help, if there is a breach of intelligence.
You know what I’m hinting at..

By chance, I was on a trip to central Asian state and I met some people from govt. and those people also think that our President is anti state!
I happen to discuss the recent events of Pakistan with some Indian Muslims and they also said the same to me!
Point is whole world can see it from far away that we have anti state govt./politicians.

Central Asian govts. wants Pakistan to work together with the regional states and in my conversation with them, I could see their desperation about access to Gawadar port.

Turkmenistan people were very critical for lack of interest from our govt. in pipeline project.
I have no choice but to tell them only fools cannot see the benefit of Pak-Turk pipe line.

 

[BaburCM]

When Musharraf was fencing the border along Afghanistan, it was heavily opposition and work stopped after few months. Why Karazi oppose fencing, when on the other hand , they were accusing Pakistan for cross border militancy inside Afghanistan.
Pakistan govt need to resolve Uzbek issue, because they pass through Nothern Alliance territory to reach central Afganistan. They are in too many invisible hands involve in handling these Uzbeks. Quetta is overcrowded with Uzbek and Tajik labor. No security apparatus functioning in these violent territory of Pakistan.

Pakistan should go ahead with fencing regardless of what others say. This is our land and the so-called territorial disputes are just lame excuses to obstruct peace efforts. NWFP is Pakistani territory. There are no ifs and buts on this matter. Claiming Pakistani territory would tantamount to a war. In fact, this should be one more solid motive for Pakistan to accelerate the installation of the fence. We cannot have some war torn refugees now claiming our land. We have already provided enough hospitality as it is. We extended our welcoming hand and now these crazy Afghans are forcefully pulling our arm. Exactly the reason why we shouldn't have extended our hand in the first place.

Fencing needs top priority together with mining the most vulnerable parts of the porous border with Khakistan. Pakistan needs to place SAM batteries in order to curb on air intrusions. The army needs to establish a presence on the ground. Additionally, we need UAVs/UCAVs that would be carrying out round the clock reconnaissance missions. The UCAVs could also be exploited in order to secure the aerial passage which has been violated so many times. Pakistan needs to secure its sovereignty.

We need checkpoints with fingerprinting where illegal Afghan refugees, Afghan drug smugglers and terrorists are registered and detained. The fence should serve two purposes which is to welcome legal visitors and make it easy for them to come and go as they wish. On the other side of the fence, however, we would want to curb and control the inflow and outflow of miscreants. The digital fence should comprise of clearing foreign visitors entering and exiting Pakistan with digital finger-scans, iris scans, digital photographs, database scans of terrorist and criminal watch lists and some kind of advanced access control technology to log people in and out.

We all know that it's a painstaking and time consuming process which will require an abundant amount of resources, but it'll be worth every bit in the end. Nothing goes beyond security and sovereignty of a nation. Pakistan's security is paramount. Nothing comes for free in this ugly world. Pakistanis will have to make an effort in order to secure themselves from the ugly and heinous terror being imported across the border.

 

[HAIDER]

Pakistan should go ahead with fencing regardless of what others say. This is our land and the so-called territorial disputes are just lame excuses to obstruct peace efforts. NWFP is Pakistani territory. There are no ifs and buts on this matter. In fact, this should be one more motive for Pakistan to accelerate the installation of the fence. We cannot have some war torn refugees now claiming our land. We have already provided enough hospitality as it is. We extended our welcoming hand and now these crazy Afghans are forcefully pulling our arm. Exactly the reason why we shouldn't have extended our hand in the first place.

Fencing needs top priority together with mining the most vulnerable parts of the porous border with Khakistan. Pakistan needs to place SAM batteries in order to curb on air intrusions. We need checkpoints with fingerprinting where illegal Afghan refugees, Afghan drug smugglers and terrorists are registered and detained. The fence should serve two purposes which is to welcome legal visitors and make it easy for them to come and go as they wish. On the other side of the fence, however, we would want to curb and control the inflow and outflow of miscreants. The digital fence should comprise of clearing foreign visitors entering and exiting Pakistan with digital finger-scans, iris scans, digital photographs, database scans of terrorist and criminal watch lists and some kind of advanced access control technology to log people in and out.

We all know that it's painstaking and time consuming process which will require resources, but nothing extends beyond security. Pakistan's security is paramount above all other issues at this moment. Nothing comes for free in this ugly world. Pakistanis will have to make an effort in order to secure themselves from the ugly and heinous terror being imported across the border.

I see refugees from Bangladash,Nepal,Tajik,Uzbik,Afghans etc etc...Is my country a refugee camp or what....On top Pak govt give them refugee next day they start anti-Pak activities. Thanks to Zia who raise the slogan of ." Islam ka Qila Pakistan"...Now this Qila is infested by the same people who got refuge while ago.

 

[BaburCM]

I see refugees from Bangladash,Nepal,Tajik,Uzbik,Afghans etc etc...Is my country a refugee camp or what....On top Pak govt give them refugee next day they start anti-Pak activities. Thanks to Zia who raise the slogan of ." Islam ka Qila Pakistan"...Now this Qila is infested by the same people who got refuge while ago.

Spot on brother. Being Muslims we believe in hospitality and helping the needy. However, we cannot afford backstabbing foreigners that are fed and disloyal with the same mouth. Even Islam prohibits such hypocrisy. On top of that we have had to bear the brunt of increasing crime and other illegal activities. There is a limit to patience. That limit has reached it's peak. It's time to repatriate the Afghans to where they really belong. There is nothing inhumane or wrong with doing so. The Afghans wish to see their land prosper and reside in it like any other world citizen would like to do so in his her country.

 

[Cheetah786]

This is typical baseless conspiracy theory caused by lack of tin hat wearing and drinking too much Kool Aid.

Nice throwaway line and that is what you need to do throw it away from you collection of utterances.



Who cares, or respects it: Well few in Pakistan and defiantly not your government else you would not have the Afghan Taliban in there and you would NOT have let Swat collapse into a state within a state.

You brought that lack of respect on yourself.

I am 100% sure they ''Talibans'' have full support of GOP every thing else is a complete hog wash.
It makes me laugh and sick to my stomach when all media out lets can find where Meshud is while ISI and other intelligence agencies cant.

 

[Cheetah786]

The solution is very simple actually. Just turn Pakistan into a replica of the Soviet Union. No need for bombing or anything else.

Your papers please. If not, jail and deportation. Faked things can be weeded out. But this all requires intelligence, which appears to be lacking in many areas.

i agree with you 100% but you do realize all afghans travel to the world on pakistani passports

 

[BATMAN]

I see refugees from Bangladash,Nepal,Tajik,Uzbik,Afghans etc etc...Is my country a refugee camp or what....On top Pak govt give them refugee next day they start anti-Pak activities. Thanks to Zia who raise the slogan of ." Islam ka Qila Pakistan"...Now this Qila is infested by the same people who got refuge while ago.

Dear Haider I totally agree with your sentiments and in past we have accepted refugees with open heart but now they are security threat and we should go for a rational approach without wasting a moment. i.e. tighter id control and movement restrictions etc.

I would also clarify the notion of 'Pakistan as Islam ka Qila' I see it not from religious point of view but from the geopolitical point of view.
You can assume that Pakistan is the foundation stone of the stability of whole region and in large of Muslim world.
Pakistanis have least knowledge about Islam but a weaker Pakistan may invite foreign aggression over many Islamic states.

IMO, best way forward would be to work with the respective central asian govts. which are very closed to outsiders. their people know only what states tell them so for obvious reasons their is no chance of public pressure.
In such circumstances our state must contact the respective states, other wise, I doubt that respective states may be interested to spend their money to further tighten the border control just by reading fine news.