Myanmar General Discussion (non military)

[Carlosa]

You blind or deaf? The upsurge from the immigration indeed came because of the British, but the Rohingya were already there way before then:
Rohingya people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now even if what you said is true. What the hell did they do to deserve being ethnically cleansed?

Now I know you don't know jack about anything! The Panthays & other Muslims group (that's even one of their main ethnic groups) are also targeted by religious sentiment.

Wikipedia is not always a good source, anybody can write in it, you know that right? The ones that are actually called Rohingya are the recent arrivals and the only ones to get attacked. The communities of the ones that have been there longer don't called themselves Rohingya and they don't have problems. The Burmese know very well who is who. The Rohingya often try to confuse the situation by using those other older communities as if they were Rohingya, but they are not. You are not going to get accurate insight from Wikipedia in this particular case, you have to dig a lot further if you really want to know the facts.

Why are they being cleansed? Because they actually had been cleansing the Burmese out for decades, murdering them, pushing them out, illegally applying sharia law, etc. They had become an state inside the state and at one point they even tried to create a muslim only state, that's why.

Now the Burmese got tired of them and they are cleansing them out. The sooner the better.

@alaungphaya care to add something?

You can read this link if you want to learn some facts:

https://www.soas.ac.uk/sbbr/editions/file64388.pdf

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Wikipedia is not always a good source, anybody can write in it, you know that right? The ones that are actually called Rohingya are the recent arrivals and the only ones to get attacked. The communities of the ones that have been there longer don't called themselves Rohingya and they don't have problems. The Burmese know very well who is who. The Rohingya often try to confuse the situation by using those other older communities as if they were Rohingya, but they are not. You are not going to get accurate insight from Wikipedia in this particular case, you have to dig a lot further if you really want to know the facts.

Why are they being cleansed? Because they actually had been cleansing the Burmese out for decades, murdering them, pushing them out, illegally applying sharia law, etc. They had become an state inside the state and at one point they even tried to create a muslim only state, that's why.

Now the Burmese got tired of them and they are cleansing them out. The sooner the better.

@alaungphaya care to add something?

You can read this link if you want to learn some facts:

https://www.soas.ac.uk/sbbr/editions/file64388.pdf

La, la, la, la:
Anti-Muslim Riots Turn Deadly in Myanmar’s Mandalay City
Anti-Muslim Riots Turn Deadly in Myanmar’s Mandalay City

Buddhists stone Muslim shops, mosque in Hlegu (40 click of Rangoon) following scissor attack
Buddhists stone Muslim shops, mosque in Hlegu following scissor attack - DVB Multimedia Group

Its no longer about Rohingya its full on sectarian conflict & discrimination happening in the country. What did the others do?

Oh & btw page 3 already blow a hole in your link.

 

[Carlosa]

La, la, la, la:
Anti-Muslim Riots Turn Deadly in Myanmar’s Mandalay City
Anti-Muslim Riots Turn Deadly in Myanmar’s Mandalay City

Buddhists stone Muslim shops, mosque in Hlegu (40 click of Rangoon) following scissor attack
Buddhists stone Muslim shops, mosque in Hlegu following scissor attack - DVB Multimedia Group

Its no longer about Rohingya its full on sectarian conflict & discrimination happening in the country. What did the others do?

Oh & btw page 3 already blow a hole in your link.

Those older communities mentioned in page 3 are not Rohingya and they were not targeted, neither are they being expelled, neither is their citizenship being questioned. Yes, in some areas the fanatics target anybody muslim, but the army and police do protect those people while on the other hand, nobody helps the Rohingya and there is consensus from the government and security forces to push them out. That's what I support same as most Burmese. Yes, in some cases it might get out of hand and that's regrettable, but lets be clear about the actual facts about the Rohingya and who really is Rohingya and how and when they got to MM..

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Those older communities mentioned in page 3 are not Rohingya and they were not targeted, neither are they being expelled, neither is their citizenship being questioned. Yes, in some areas the fanatics target anybody muslim, but the army and police do protect those people while on the other hand, nobody helps the Rohingya and there is consensus from the government and security forces to push them out. That's what I support same as most Burmese. Yes, in some cases it might get out of hand and that's regrettable, but lets be clear about the actual facts about the Rohingya and who really is Rohingya and how and when they got to MM..

Oh please enough with the bs about their ethnicity those are wedge issue being put in place as to somehow "justify" their atrocity. For example I'm classified as "Tionghoa." in here. A made up ethnicity so they can classify me with the other Chinese. The Chinese here have history way before the 1st white man came here and have assimilated into local culture. Its true that a large percentage of our "kinds" came here after the dutch "imported" lots of china-man, but it does not make us any less of an Indonesian & it does not justify out "treatment" in 98 riot.

 

[Carlosa]

Oh please enough with the bs about their ethnicity those are wedge issue being put in place as to somehow "justify" their atrocity. For example I'm classified as "Tionghoa." in here. A made up ethnicity so they can classify me with the other Chinese. The Chinese here have history way before the 1st white man came here and have assimilated into local culture. Its true that a large percentage of our "kinds" came here after the dutch "imported" lots of china-man, but it does not make us any less of an Indonesian & it does not justify out "treatment" in 98 riot.

You are entitled to your opinion and anyway, the situation of the chinese community in Indonesia is a very different issue of the Rohingya issue and I certainly don't agree with the anti chinese riots in Indonesia.

The same situation that created the Rohingya issue is also happening in northeast India, uncontrolled massive influx of bengali people into India that later take over those areas and push the Hindus out. Feel free to ask the Indian members here how they feel about that and what the solution is and you'll find that they have the same solution, to kick them out and set up fences, same as in MM.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

You are entitled to your opinion and anyway, the situation of the chinese community in Indonesia is a very different issue of the Rohingya issue and I certainly don't agree with the anti chinese riots in Indonesia.

The same situation that created the Rohingya issue is also happening in northeast India, uncontrolled massive influx of bengali people into India that later take over those areas and push the Hindus out. Feel free to ask the Indian members here how they feel about that and what the solution is and you'll find that they have the same solution, to kick them out and set up fences, same as in MM.

Its pretty much the same actually. A group of people being persecuted for not being "actual natives" of that country.

Do you know how racist that sound? A certain group of people trying to take something from others. Those are just racist propaganda & shame on you for even thinking like that. Most immigrants are essentially there looking for jobs not trying to spread their believes.

Also putting fence around to stop immigration is a medieval way of thinking.

Also the most crazy thing is that the Burmese actually believes that there's actually a shadowy cabal of muslims working together to try to take down the country: http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/images/uploads/Examples_of_Anti-Muslim_Propaganda.pdf
Don't tell me you're one of those?

 

[Carlosa]

Its pretty much the same actually. A group of people being persecuted for not being "actual natives" of that country.

Do you know how racist that sound? A certain group of people trying to take something from others. Those are just racist propaganda & shame on you for even thinking like that. Most immigrants are essentially there looking for jobs not trying to spread their believes.

Also putting fence around to stop immigration is a medieval way of thinking.

Also the most crazy thing is that the Burmese actually believes that there's actually a shadowy cabal of muslims working together to try to take down the country: http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/images/uploads/Examples_of_Anti-Muslim_Propaganda.pdf
Don't tell me you're one of those?

No, the issue is not about people that are not native, is about illegal, uncontrolled influx of people that came uninvited and on top of everything don't integrate with the people of the country, but actually creates a divide that in the end will have very nasty consequences sooner or later. No country can be expected to accept that situation.

Contrary to what you said, the bengalis did try to impose their beliefs on the locals and push them out. They did try to create a muslim only state and had islamic militias. At that point they lose their credibility and the benefit of the doubt. You are trying to portrait them as the typical case of immigrants just looking for work, but its far from that.

You said fences are medieval, so what do you advocate? Open borders and free movement of people as they wish? I don't think there is any country that will agree to that.

No, I don't subscribe to that other stuff, that is propaganda. When emotions get high, Pandora's box opens and the crazies get in.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

No, the issue is not about people that are not native, is about illegal, uncontrolled influx of people that came uninvited and on top of everything don't integrate with the people of the country, but actually creates a divide that in the end will have very nasty consequences sooner or later. No country can be expected to accept that situation.

Contrary to what you said, the bengalis did try to impose their beliefs on the locals and push them out. They did try to create a muslim only state and had islamic militias. At that point they lose their credibility and the benefit of the doubt. You are trying to portrait them as the typical case of immigrants just looking for work, but its far from that.

You said fences are medieval, so what do you advocate? Open borders and free movement of people as they wish? I don't think there is any country that will agree to that.

No, I don't subscribe to that other stuff, that is propaganda. When emotions get high, Pandora's box opens and the crazies get in.

The Myanmar gov won't even let them integrate in the first place. They can't get married, can't get education, can't get insert whatever. Those are the reality for the Rohingya. You claim you know about this, but don't even know about the discrimination they faced way before the riot?

Like the Karen did & all the other ethnic rebels? Why the Rohingya get the special treatment.

That's exactly what I propose an open border means a steady influx of workers and smoother transfer of currency in both country making each country prosper. There's problem sure, but the benefit far outweigh the con. Look at the EU. The only true detractor of this plan are the Racist.

Your fence thinking reflects your Archaic mentality. We live in a globalized age where nation are interdependent on another. Just look at my earlier post where the Rakhine lost access to cheap Rohingya's labor after the riot & a lot of them have to earn out of the country.

 

[alaungphaya]

Wikipedia is not always a good source, anybody can write in it, you know that right? The ones that are actually called Rohingya are the recent arrivals and the only ones to get attacked. The communities of the ones that have been there longer don't called themselves Rohingya and they don't have problems. The Burmese know very well who is who. The Rohingya often try to confuse the situation by using those other older communities as if they were Rohingya, but they are not. You are not going to get accurate insight from Wikipedia in this particular case, you have to dig a lot further if you really want to know the facts.

Why are they being cleansed? Because they actually had been cleansing the Burmese out for decades, murdering them, pushing them out, illegally applying sharia law, etc. They had become an state inside the state and at one point they even tried to create a muslim only state, that's why.

Now the Burmese got tired of them and they are cleansing them out. The sooner the better.

@alaungphaya care to add something?

You can read this link if you want to learn some facts:

https://www.soas.ac.uk/sbbr/editions/file64388.pdf

Arguing against this guy is like banging one's head against a brick wall. He holds some Western liberal notions with a staunch Islamist mindset.

Do you still call yourselves Burma in every day conversation?

This is quite complicated.

It stems from the difference between written Burmese and spoken Burmese. The way words are written, the proper way, is not like how they are pronounced. Officialy we have always called ourselves 'ျမန္မာ' or 'myanmar' but in the ancient vernacular it was pronounced as 'mranmar'. Now, if you say 'mranmar' quickly enough, it sounds like 'bamar'. So unofficially people started calling themselves 'bamar' or 'ဗမာ' which just stuck. Interestingly, the Thais have always referred us as 'pamarr' and the Chinese as 'Mien tien'.

The argument is in the foreign interpretation. The military claim that Myanmar is a more sensitive name to the ethnics but the opposition have claimed they have no right to change the name. However, everyone now likes to use Myanmar - both the opposition and the foreign press (barring some UK media).

For me, having grown up a lot in the West, I always would here 'bamar' or 'bamar-pyi' because a lot of my parents' generation would use 'bamar'. But this is beginning to change. Since I started coming back, I noted that the majority would use 'Myanmar' when referring to the country but 'Bamar' if they were referring to the language and themselves (if they were Burmans). Not many ethnic minorities would refer to themselves as 'bamar' but they would probably use 'myanmar' and they have been taught in school for 25 years to do this so I'm not going to argue.

Personally, I prefer to call the country 'Myanmar' but will use both 'Myanmar' and 'Burmese' as the adjective form (the adjective of Myanmar is Myanmar, not Myanmarese). I like this for a number of reasons:-
- I buy the idea that it's a more inclusive name.

- it's the correct name (written has always being the correct form)

- it gives us a chance to make a clean break from the some of the history and connotations attached to 'Burma'

- I also think it's important for our international brand that there is only one name. Having a weird dual naming system is hurtful to business IMO.

 

[Carlosa]

The Myanmar gov won't even let them integrate in the first place. They can't get married, can't get education, can't get insert whatever. Those are the reality for the Rohingya. You claim you know about this, but don't even know about the discrimination they faced way before the riot?

Like the Karen did & all the other ethnic rebels? Why the Rohingya get the special treatment.

That's exactly what I propose an open border means a steady influx of workers and smoother transfer of currency in both country making each country prosper. There's problem sure, but the benefit far outweigh the con. Look at the EU. The only true detractor of this plan are the Racist.

Your fence thinking reflects your Archaic mentality. We live in a globalized age where nation are interdependent on another. Just look at my earlier post where the Rakhine lost access to cheap Rohingya's labor after the riot & a lot of them have to earn out of the country.

You are mentioning the after effects of the situation, the Rohingya were already black listed because of the reasons I mentioned before and it is because of those reasons why they are the only group that is targeted.

Most people in the planet seems to agree with my archaic view of no open borders, but as I said before, you are entitled to your opinion and I suggest that we agree to disagree and go to sleep. Good night.

Arguing against this guy is like banging one's head against a brick wall. He holds some Western liberal notions with a staunch Islamist mindset.

You are right. I don't have that much experience with him, but I can see your point.

You guys keep up the good work in MM and finish that fence as fast as possible.

 

[somsak]

@Reashot Xigwin

Are you a Muslim?
I don't exactly know the situation about Rohinya in Myanmar. However, I tend to support Burma government policy on Rohingya. Why?

Do you see the pattern from Middle East to Xinjiang China, to Mynamar Rakhine, to Southern Thailand? There are some muslims who kills innocent people of other religious to try to change it to religious war. When blame their behavior, they say 99% of peaceful Muslim. When I read Quran, I see these people act according to/in a way of Quran teaching.

When we interrogate these captured separatists, there are always a supporting groups behind them and one of these groups always have something to do with Islamic teaching from Middle Eastern Countries.

Therefore in this case, I understand Burma's government.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

You are mentioning the after effects of the situation, the Rohingya were already black listed because of the reasons I mentioned before and it is because of those reasons why they are the only group that is targeted.

Most people in the planet seems to agree with my archaic view of no open borders, but as I said before, you are entitled to your opinion and I suggest that we agree to disagree and go to sleep. Good night.



You are right. I don't have that much experience with him, but I can see your point.

You guys keep up the good work in MM and finish that fence as fast as possible.

Fighting for independence where others group has done the same? The Rohingya did what the others already did, but somehow they treated like an untermensch complete with concentration camp. For example the Chinese in here tried to create a communist state & was punished because of it, but even then our military government didn't treated them as god awful at how the Junta treated the Rohingya.

Closed Border = No Profit, Open Border = Much Profit. You saying you don't like money because that is just stupid.

@Reashot Xigwin

Are you a Muslim?
I don't exactly know the situation about Rohinya in Myanmar. However, I tend to support Burma government policy on Rohingya. Why?

Do you see the pattern from Middle East to Xinjiang China, to Mynamar Rakhine, to Southern Thailand? There are some muslims who kills innocent people of other religious to try to change it to religious war. When blame their behavior, they say 99% of peaceful Muslim. When I read Quran, I see these people act according to/in a way of Quran teaching.

When we interrogate these captured separatists, there are always a supporting groups behind them and one of these groups always have something to do with Islamic teaching from Middle Eastern Countries.

Therefore in this case, I understand Burma's government.

Not a Muslim, but I fight for minority because I am one for starter. I even fight for LGBT alone in here.

What, that Muslims sow the seeds of chaos whenever they go?

Really then explain why my country is better off then? To blame religion means not blaming the actual causes. If Islam ruins the world then why the F are you still breathing? The issues have have more Geo-political connotation on those 4 area you mention.

Arguing against this guy is like banging one's head against a brick wall. He holds some Western liberal notions with a staunch Islamist mindset.

Excuse me for having a conscience. Also how the hell it even work Liberal & Islamist at the same time?

 

[Carlosa]

Fighting for independence where others group has done the same? The Rohingya did what the others already did, but somehow they treated like an untermensch complete with concentration camp. For example the Chinese in here tried to create a communist state & was punished because of it, but even then our military government didn't treated them as god awful at how the Junta treated the Rohingya.

Closed Border = No Profit, Open Border = Much Profit. You saying you don't like money because that is just stupid.



Not a Muslim, but I fight for minority because I am one for starter. I even fight for LGBT alone in here.

What, that Muslims sow the seeds of chaos whenever they go?

Really then explain why my country is better off then? To blame religion means not blaming the actual causes. If Islam ruins the world then why the F are you still breathing? The issues have have more Geo-political connotation on those 4 area you mention.



Excuse me for having a conscience. Also how the hell it even work Liberal & Islamist at the same time?

Fighting for independence? Yeah sure, feel free to let them go into Indonesia in big numbers and after they control their local areas then they fight for their own independent state, I'm sure Indonesia will like that. If that were to be the case, Indonesia will kick them out same as MM is doing now.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Fighting for independence? Yeah sure, feel free to let them go into Indonesia in big numbers and after they control their local areas then they fight for their own independent state, I'm sure Indonesia will like that. If that were to be the case, Indonesia will kick them out same as MM is doing now.

What is wrong with you. Were you raised without a moral guidance or are you just Amoral to begin with? They fought for independence the same as Karen & they lost that does not mean you should go Franco on their asses. The Acehnese tried to create their separate country & you don't see us doing half of what Myanmar gov. does. Also I though you big on a people being granted independence if they wish so (Catalan)? Also a large numbers of them already here & most of them are already in Malaysia. They're the same as my "kinds." The only difference is my country isn't run by a sociopaths.

 

[Aepsilons]

Not a Muslim, but I fight for minority because I am one for starter. I even fight for LGBT alone in here.

What, that Muslims sow the seeds of chaos whenever they go?

Really then explain why my country is better off then? To blame religion means not blaming the actual causes. If Islam ruins the world then why the F are you still breathing? The issues have have more Geo-political connotation on those 4 area you mention.

Impressive, buddy! I respect that about you !