Musharraf survives!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Okay, here is what I found in the constitution on the "impeachment"

47. Removal [22][or impeachment] of President.
[22A](1) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Constitution, the President may, in accordance with the provisions of this Article, be removed from office on the ground of physical or mental incapacity or impeached on a charge of violating the Constitution or gross misconduct.
(2) Not less than one-half of the total membership of either House may give to the Speaker of the National Assembly or, as the case may be, the Chairman written notice of its intention to move a resolution for the removal of, or, as the case may be, to impeach, the President; and such notice shall set out the particulars of his incapacity or of the charge against him.]
(3) If a notice under clause (2) is received by the Chairman, he shall transmit it forthwith to the Speaker.
(4) The Speaker shall, within three days of the receipt of a notice under clause (2) or clause (3), cause a copy of the notice to be transmitted to the President.
(5) The Speaker shall summon the two Houses to meet in a joint sitting not earlier than seven days and not later than fourteen days after the receipt of the notice by him.
(6) The joint sitting may investigate or cause to be investigated the ground or the charge upon which the notice is founded.
(7) The President shall have the right to appear and be represented during the investigation, if any, and before the joint sitting.
(8) If, after consideration of the result of the investigation, if any, a resolution is passed at the joint sitting by the votes of not less than two-thirds of the total membership of [23][Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] declaring that the President is unfit to hold the office due to incapacity or is guilty of violating the Constitution or of gross misconduct, the President shall cease to hold office immediately on the passing of the resolution.

This would indicate that impeachment only requires a two thirds majority in the National assembly, and not the provincial assemblies.

 

[Logic note]

will you listen to hypothesis or the reality

PML-Q could have said that same after losing but they dint. Thats the difference

how do we know that . (wild Guess but yet possible)
1 ) Zardari is not Blackmailed (with so many cases on him all over the world)
he is already saying that he is ready to worl with president and he is not particular about bringing back the old judges but prefer "independent judiciary"

2) results were manipulated so that .. every party is vulnerable
Manipulation doesnt mean wining of PMLQ - it also means keeping the enemy weak

 

[Awesome]

Okay, here is what I found in the constitution on the "impeachment"



This would indicate that impeachment only requires a two thirds majority in the National assembly, and not the provincial assemblies.

When we say Majlis-e-Shoora, that refers to the Parliament. Which consists of the National Assembly and the Senate.

The Senate is a 100 member Upper house propped up by the winners in the Provincial Assemblies. The senate unlike the NA/Provincial Assemblies, serve out for 6 years rather than 5.

As mentioned before the current senate would serve out another year and chances are 2/3rds won't end up voting against Musharraf in an year.

 

[Awesome]

from wikipedia

Article 59

(1) The Senate shall consist of 100 members, of whom, -

(a) 14 shall be elected by the members of each Provincial Assembly;
(b) eight shall be elected by direct and free vote from the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, in such manner as the President may, by Order, prescribe;
(c) two on general seats, and one woman and one technocrat including aalim shall be elected from the Federal Capital in such manner as the President may, by Order, prescribe;
(d) four women shall be elected by the members of each Provincial Assembly;
(e) four technocrats including ulema shall be elected by the members of each Provincial Assembly."

(2) Election to fill seats in the Senate allocated to each Province shall be held in accordance with the system of proportional representation by means of the single transferable vote.

(3) The Senate shall not be subject to dissolution but the term of its members, who shall retire as follows, shall be six years:-

(a) of the members referred to in paragraph (a) of clause (1), seven shall retire after the expiration of the first three years and seven shall retire after the expiration of the next three years.
(b) of the members referred to in paragraph (b) of the aforesaid clause, four shall retire after the expiration of the first three years and four shall retire after the expiration of the next three years;
(c) of the members referred to in paragraph (c) of the aforesaid clause,-

(i) one elected on general seat shall retire after the expiration of the first three years and the other one shall retire after the expiration of the next three years, and
(ii) one elected on the seat reserved for technocrat shall retire after first three years and the one elected on the seat reserved for woman shall retire after the expiration of the next three years;

(d) of the members referred to in paragraph (d) of the aforesaid clause, two shall retire after the expiration of the three years and two shall retire after the expiration of the next three years; and
(e) of the members referred to in paragraph (e) of the aforesaid clause, two shall retire after the expiration of the first three years and two shall retire after the expiration of the next three years: Provided that the term of office of a person elected to fill a casual vacancy shall be the unexpired term of the member whose vacancy he has filled

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

how do we know that . (wild Guess but yet possible)
1 ) Zardari is not Blackmailed (with so many cases on him all over the world)
he is already saying that he is ready to worl with president and he is not particular about bringing back the old judges but prefer "independent judiciary"

2) results were manipulated so that .. every party is vulnerable
Manipulation doesnt mean wining of PMLQ - it also means keeping the enemy weak

Why can't Indians like you digest the fact that elections were as free and fair as posible? Were big names of gov party lost on several seats.

 

[Awesome]

how do we know that . (wild Guess but yet possible)
1 ) Zardari is not Blackmailed (with so many cases on him all over the world)
he is already saying that he is ready to worl with president and he is not particular about bringing back the old judges but prefer "independent judiciary"

2) results were manipulated so that .. every party is vulnerable
Manipulation doesnt mean wining of PMLQ - it also means keeping the enemy weak

You do know even NS isn't claiming rigging. He's going about saying due to our vigilance they couldn't rig the elections.

By large I only know of one polling booth where I know for certain MQM cheated but that really had nothing to do with Musharraf. They were swooping away Karachi anyway.

 

[sparten]

Soomero is chairman senate. Wasim Sajjad is Leader of the house. They are all of a sudden the power brokers in Pakistan. And even if the Senate changes hands in a years time, they do not have a two thirds majority needed to convict, and if "Q" can keep MQM on their side and come to an understanding with the mullas, then you could see them still having a majority even next year.

Thats why you had Zaradari being so open ended, while NS (whi probably dose not remember the Senate at all, even if he knows what it is) being the duffer that he is busy making his mouth write cheques his *** can't cash.

**Note to PML-N, get rid of Nawaz, bring in Shabaz, and you have my vote**.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Sparten,

My sources say that Nawaz is not coming up front. It is going to be Shahbaz sharif as CM punjab---how to get him in would be tricky. Shahbaz is a good administrator and very strong in enforcing the law.

In the end people of pakistan are going to win in this election and not the PPPP or PML N. All the promises that have been made so far, would need to be fulfilled. So even if 2/3 of the issues are taken care of, people will come out ahead---but will the people be satisfied with that---only time will tell.

This election is an open statement,' What have you done for me lately '----'I don't care what you did in the past----I care for my today---now'. The tiger devoured the PML Q---it is the PPPP and PML N's turn to ride the beast. They wanted it bad---now they got it. For the sake of pakistan, I pray that they succeed.

 

[EagleEyes]

You do know even NS isn't claiming rigging. He's going about saying due to our vigilance they couldn't rig the elections.

By large I only know of one polling booth where I know for certain MQM cheated but that really had nothing to do with Musharraf. They were swooping away Karachi anyway.

Asim why are you discussing with this idiot?

You know how i should answer to that post?

Tell him to go hide where the sun never shines. or in another words (you know).

 

[sparten]

No frankly, in addition to political animosity, the gulf is too great for them to work together for any semblance of time, PPP is left wing, Nawaz right, PPP is a national party, while they are Punjab and C Punjab at that, and look at Nawaz's agenda, he wants the judiciary back, which PPP dose not or is ambivalent about, he will not work with Mush, which the PPP seems to have accepted is the way to go etc, etc. Nawaz is in a weak position, a victim of his own success ironically, since his seats are too few to form government, too many to make a senior partner in any coalition not nervous. If there is a PPP/PML-N gov, I give it a year to eighteen months before it breaks and we have fresh elections.

 

[Logic note]

Why can't Indians like you digest the fact that elections were as free and fair as posible? Were big names of gov party lost on several seats.

Dear Shan / Asim
I was just trying to ponder over the various options . have you heard of game Theory ..
if the opponent is rational - you can actually predict His next Move .
so as I said .. Mr Zardari will be tested ..
Pakistan presses Swiss court case against Zardari | U.S. | Reuters

 

[EagleEyes]

Did you have something when you posted that elections in Pakistan is a "setup"?

 

[mujahideen]

Proposed Pakistan coalition could oust Musharraf

By Simon Cameron-Moore

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - The leaders of the two parties that came out on top in Pakistan's election meet on Thursday to discuss forming a coalition government that could force President Pervez Musharraf out of power.

Musharraf, who won power in a 1999 military coup in the nuclear-armed nation and has been one of Washington's top Muslim allies against al Qaeda, is vulnerable to a hostile parliament after his supporters were heavily defeated in Monday's election.

Nawaz Sharif, the prime minister Musharraf overthrew more than eight years ago and whose party came second in the election, goes into the coalition talks having made clear he would like to drive the president from power.

But in an interview with the Wall Street Journal published on Wednesday, Musharraf said he was not ready to resign. "We have to move forward in a way that we bring about a stable democratic government to Pakistan," he said.

U.S. President George W. Bush's administration has urged the next government to work with Musharraf and says Washington needs Pakistan -- which borders Afghanistan where U.S. and NATO-led forces are fighting Islamist militants -- as an ally.

"We've got interests in helping make sure there is no safe haven from which people can plot and plan attacks against the United States of America and Pakistan," Bush told reporters during a visit to Ghana.

Musharraf's critics say his efforts to hold on to power have been a destabilising factor in a country already battling to stop attacks on its territory by al Qaeda and other militants. Neighbours and allies fear Pakistan is becoming more unstable.

The Pakistan People's Party (PPP) of assassinated former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto emerged as the main victor in the election and has begun coalition talks with Sharif's Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz), also known as PML-N or the Nawaz League.


"FIND SOLUTIONS"

"We are going to find solutions to the problems of Pakistan," Bhutto's widower Asif Ali Zardari, who took over as PPP leader after she was killed on Dec. 27, said of his planned meeting with Sharif.

"Parliament will decide which president it can work with and which president it cannot," Zardari told reporters.

Since returning from exile in November, a month after Bhutto, Sharif has championed the reinstatement of judges Musharraf fired when he imposed six weeks of emergency rule on Nov. 3.

"There are no chances of showing any flexibility on the issue of judges' reinstatement," Sharif said on Wednesday.

Musharraf sacked the judges, including Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, before they could rule on whether his re-election by the last parliament while he was army chief was legitimate under Pakistan's constitution.

Analysts say if the PPP and Sharif's party team up, Musharraf can either quit gracefully or drag Pakistan through more upheaval as parliament tries to oust him on grounds he violated the constitution when he imposed emergency rule.

Analysts say Musharraf will be hoping Zardari and Sharif fail to agree on a coalition and that this could occur because of a history of enmity and mistrust between their parties.

Zardari was adamant Musharraf's main supporters, the Pakistan Muslim League (PML), would not be admitted to a PPP-led coalition, but gave the president a glimmer of hope by saying a junior partner in the last PML-led government was welcome.

"I want to make a government along with MQM," Zardari told a news conference on Wednesday, referring to Muttahida Qaumi Movement, a party representing Urdu speakers who migrated to Karachi when Pakistan was formed out of the partition of India.

Musharraf belongs to that community and enjoyed some rapport with the MQM when it was in the government he presided over.

Proposed Pakistan coalition could oust Musharraf | Top News | Reuters

 

[mujahideen]

Detained Pakistani lawyer challenges Musharraf

By Kamran Haider

LAHORE, Pakistan (Reuters) - A Pakistani lawyer and fierce opponent of President Pervez Musharraf defied a government detention order on Wednesday and walked out of his home where he has been held to issue Musharraf a challenge.

Aitzaz Ahsan was mobbed by scores of fellow lawyers and supporters as he walked past police outside his home in the eastern city of Lahore, after rejecting a conditional government offer to release him.

"I was asked to give an undertaking that I would not indulge in political activities as the elections are over. I rejected the offer," the firebrand lawyer said to loud cheers.

Ahsan, carried aloft by his cheering supporters, called on Musharraf to step down after his allies suffered a crushing defeat in Monday's parliamentary elections.

"This was a referendum against Pervez Musharraf," he told reporters. He later returned to his house.

Ahsan, a cabinet member in one of assassinated former prime minister Benazir Bhutto's governments, boycotted Monday's election but he could emerge as a candidate for prime minister if he won a by-election and got back into parliament.

Ahsan, who is also president of the Supreme Court Bar Association, said lawyers would stage a rally in Islamabad on March 9 if authorities did not reinstate judges sacked by Musharraf when he imposed emergency rule on Nov. 3.

It was on March 9 last year that the then army chief Musharraf suspended chief justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, outraging lawyers and whipping up a protest campaign by the judiciary and opposition.

Ahsan then acted as chief counsel for Chaudhry and organised a series of protests convoys to different parts of the country.

Ahsan, Chaudhry and some other judges were detained when Musharraf imposed emergency rule.

Earlier on Wednesday, Ahsan said his confinement was eased on Tuesday, as soon it became clear the pro-Musharraf, former ruling party had lost the election, and visitors were allowed access in to his house to see him.

The parties of Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif, the prime minister Musharraf ousted in a 1999 coup, came out on top in the polls and are to hold talks on a coalition government on Thursday.

Detained Pakistani lawyer challenges Musharraf | Reuters

 

[mujahideen]

Reinstatement of judges impossible, says Musharraf

ISLAMABAD: President Pervez Musharraf rejected on Wednesday calls to resign as the opposition parties mulled a coalition government. Despite the intensifying pressure on Musharraf, he told an American newspaper that he had no plans to quit.

Asked by the Wall Street Journal whether he would resign or retire, Musharraf said: “No, not yet. We have to move forward in a way that we bring about a stable democratic government to Pakistan.”

Musharraf was also quoted in the interview published on the newspaper’s website as saying he would like to function “with any party and any coalition because that is in the interest of Pakistan”.

He agreed the election outcome was a reflection of Pakistanis’ dissatisfaction with his government, citing economic problems and his attempt to rein in judges as well as sympathy for the opposition after the assassination of their charismatic leader, Benazir Bhutto.

“All these things had a negative impact,” Musharraf said. He said it was premature to comment on who might be the country’s next prime minister, as that was a matter for the political parties to decide.

Asked whether he could work with Nawaz Sharif, the prime minister he overthrew in 1999, Musharraf said: “The government is run by the prime minister. The president has no mandate to share governing power with the prime minister.”

He added: “The clash would be if the prime minister and president would be trying to get rid of each other. I only hope we would avoid these clashes.” Musharraf also made it known that there was no possible way in which the deposed chief justice of Pakistan and other sacked judges could be brought back.

“Legally there’s no way this can be done. I can’t even imagine how this is done,” he said. The president said he has not met either Nawaz Sharif or Asif Ali Zardari since the elections. “I’m not heading a political party. Let political parties meet with each other and form a coalition,” Musharraf said.

“If anyone thinks I can facilitate in a positive way for Pakistan, I would like to do it,” Musharraf said. At a time when questions are being raised in Washington on the implications of the election result on American foreign policy, especially as it related to the war on terror, Musharraf argued that relationships between the two countries were not tied to individuals and it was in the interest of Pakistan to fight terrorism and extremism.

“I don’t think relationships between nations are tied to individuals. There are mutual, national interests that lead to personal relationships. It’s not the other way around. It’s the mutual interests in the region, especially the fight against terrorism that has led to our strategic relationship.

“Now it is broad-based, and long-term. So it is an issue-related relationship, which has led to a personal relationship with President (George W) Bush, and I cherish the relationship,” he said.

“The fight against terrorism has a strategic context and we are looking for social and economic assistance especially for the tribal areas. It is the economic bonds that cement relations. We are looking for an increase in market access into the US, this is at the core of poverty – job creation – which is at the core of our anti-terrorism drive,” he said.

When asked how military ties with the US might change in the context of him not being in uniform and in having a new prime minister, the president said: “It’s in Pakistan’s interest to fight terrorism and extremism. So, whatever government there is I’m pretty sure they will continue to fight terrorism and extremism. Why would any government change its priorities? I think the policy will remain consistent.”

Meanwhile, the president called for a “harmonious coalition” after the general elections, a foreign ministry statement said. “The president emphasised the need for harmonious coalition in the interest of peaceful governance, development and progress of Pakistan,” the statement said after Musharraf met a visiting US congressman.

“The elections have strengthened the moderate forces in the country,” it quoted Musharraf as saying. “The president stated that the Pakistani nation had faced many challenges and has always come out well,” the statement further said. “The future looked better with successes in the fight against terrorism.

Reinstatement of judges impossible, says Musharraf