More Israeli fear-mongering....

[Falcon29]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4446852,00.html

The Islamist group is building its strength in preparation for future conflicts with Israel. Its goal is to keep these wars as short as possible. Hamas' military build-up includes amassing M-75 rockets, which have a range of 70 kilometers (43 miles) and can reach the Tel Aviv Metropolitan area. It is safe to assume that as opposed to last year's conflict with Israel, during the next war the firing of medium-range rockets from Gaza will not be sporadic.

The next war between Israel and Hamas will be different. The Islamist group currently has only a number of M-75 rockets in its possession, but production is continuing at a fast pace. Hamas also has hundreds of anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles.

While the Egyptian army has destroyed dozens of tunnels on the Egypt-Gaza border, most of them were used to smuggle petrol and construction material. It appears that the tunnels used to smuggle arms into Gaza sustained much less damage.

Relations between Hamas and the regime in Egypt remain tense, but Cairo is apparently not looking to overthrow the Hamas regime in Gaza. Instead, it will probably seek a "cold" peace with Gaza, similar to the peace that existed during former President Hosni Mubarak's reign. Israel also believes that Hamas is preferable to an extremist Salafist regime in Gaza. The chances that the PA will regain control over the Strip remain slim.

Contrary to previous reports, it appears that Mohammed Deif heads Hamas' military wing. Marwan Issa, who replaced Ahmed Jabari after the latter was killed by Israel, serves as Deif's deputy.

................

First of all, Hamas will send a rocket frequently to israelis northern cities. They simply don't have the capabilities and that's not why they built them for. They built them to make sure they can be a deterrence if there is a longer period of war. They are made to disrupt life in further cities or to send a message of no quiet if Gaza is not quiet.

Secondly, they aren't building at a fast pace, they have only about 30-35 according to some reports and it's not sure whether they will be efficient. Israel also probably has intel on most of these.

Thirdly, the part where they say Gaza has hundreds of anti tank missiles, big deal? They would use them in case of a ground invasion and they may be affective in a way against tanks and infantry. And the they add also hundreds of anti air missiles, which are...very ineffective against the Israeli Air Force.

Yet again, we have Israeli media constantly trying to keep their citizens in fear. Gaza only seeks to use their 'superior' weapons in their terms in the event of a huge conflict erupting. But, we have media over exaggerate their military capabilities by a lot. This is bad because it used to justify war and create a sense of war just because one side doesn't believe the other may acquire weapons for their military.

 

[elis]

Don't forget to say that the wahabit kingdoms give 0 weapons for Hamas. All is given by Iran, Syria or Hezbollah

 

[Falcon29]

Don't forget to say that the wahabit kingdoms give 0 weapons for Hamas. All is given by Iran, Syria or Hezbollah

No it isn't, a majority of it comes from Egypt, black market, Libya. Chinese weapons. Then a good amount from Iran not Syria. Neither Hezbollah.

Iran is the only nation who sends weapons but it has largely came to an halt recently. Hezbollah has had their experts on Egyptian soil in Sinai help smuggle as quickly as possible from Libya to Gaza and they rooted out good smugglers from the bad ones.

 

[500]

Lucky to you Hamas tunnel was discovered:

If it was not discovered terror attack would undoubtedly lead to another spanking session.

 

[PeaceGen]

Regardless of how many weapons Hamas is building/stockpiling, it seems proven that they haven't come to their senses about the counter-productiveness of their 'strategies'.

 

[Falcon29]

Lucky to you Hamas tunnel was discovered:

If it was not discovered terror attack would undoubtedly lead to another spanking session.

Look the female IDF snorlax is back...

The tunnel was going to be used in the war had Israel gone on with a ground invasion and Hamas would have rightfully captured Israeli soldiers. Or attack an IDF deployment area.

That won't make a difference for you as you keep spreading lies thinking Muslims here will believe them.

Bin Zonah.

 

[Falcon29]

Regardless of how many weapons Hamas is building/stockpiling, it seems proven that they haven't come to their senses about the counter-productiveness of their 'strategies'.

Well, peace fan, everyone will maintain their military capabilities and improve them as time goes on, it's a process you know. There's no 'strategy' to this. This is to protect Gaza in case of a surprise attack which pulls Hamas in.

Israel always regularly attacks to maintain their deterrence, people in the region know this better then you. So your words mean squat. They will exercise their right to high quality weapons to retaliate to any Israeli offensives on Gaza which would take the lives of our people. Israel won't live in peace while they terrorize the Palestinians. They reserve the right to respond.

 

[PeaceGen]

Well, peace fan, everyone will maintain their military capabilities and improve them as time goes on, it's a process you know. There's no 'strategy' to this. This is to protect Gaza in case of a surprise attack which pulls Hamas in.

Israel always regularly attacks to maintain their deterrence, people in the region know this better then you. So your words mean squat. They will exercise their right to high quality weapons to retaliate to any Israeli offensives on Gaza which would take the lives of our people. Israel won't live in peace while they terrorize the Palestinians. They reserve the right to respond.

Any violent response will only prolong the suffering of the Palestinian people, not protect them against it.

And there are many non-violent forms of resistance, that Hamas (and people like you probably) so far have refused to even listen to, let alone consider objectively. How many more decades of suffering do you need before you do??

 

[elis]

No it isn't, a majority of it comes from Egypt, black market, Libya. Chinese weapons. Then a good amount from Iran not Syria. Neither Hezbollah.

Weapons come from Egypt sent by Iran & Hezbollah. Salafists & wahabits invading the Sinai to kill egyptians soldiers don't give 1 bullet for Hamas.

Egypt Accuses Hezbollah of Plotting Attacks and Arms Smuggling to Gaza - NYTimes.com
Billboards in Gaza thank Iran for help in conflict

 

[Falcon29]

Any violent response will only prolong the suffering of the Palestinian people, not protect them against it.

And there are many non-violent forms of resistance, that Hamas (and people like you probably) so far have refused to even listen to, let alone consider objectively. How many more decades of suffering do you need before you do??

You're crazy if you think you won't suffer to gain independence. Westerners are known to massacre and oppress tens millions of people worldwide in their imperialism.

And respond to what? I said if Israel attacks us with full out violence without provocation we hold the right to respond unless the international community actually does it's fucking job and puts Israel in its place for committing severer illegal actions.

 

[Falcon29]

Weapons come from Egypt sent by Iran & Hezbollah. Salafists & wahabits invading the Sinai to kill egyptians soldiers don't give 1 bullet for Hamas.

Egypt Accuses Hezbollah of Plotting Attacks and Arms Smuggling to Gaza - NYTimes.com
Billboards in Gaza thank Iran for help in conflict

How many times do I have to go over this with you?

 

[PeaceGen]

You're crazy if you think you won't suffer to gain independence. Westerners are known to massacre and oppress tens millions of people worldwide in their imperialism.

That's an overstatement and you know it. We are constantly working to reduce civilian casualties that result from our self-defense against extremist aggression. For instance, we have new warheads (for drones and other things) just finished, with a lower yield; killrange decreased from 10 meters to about 3 meters..

And respond to what? I said if Israel attacks us with full out violence without provocation we hold the right to respond unless the international community actually does it's fucking job and puts Israel in its place for committing severer illegal actions.

That international community (and especially the part that keeps veto-ing anti-israel resolutions and such) can't protect the Palestinians from (real) Israeli arrogance, until they move to exclusively non-violent resistance forms, AND stop their state-sponsored arab-language severely-anti-israel propaganda.

And Israel attacks Palestinians with 'all out violence' only after parties like Hamas start rocket barrages or other forms of violence that threaten Israeli lives or ability to travel their streets safely.
Attacks by Israel on the Hamas leadership that serve to provoke Hamas into said counter-productive violence, I do not endorse, but the fact remains it's Hamas' refusal to abandon their policy and propaganda to 'eradicate Israel', that provoke such attacks by Israel on the Hamas leadership.

 

[Falcon29]

That's an overstatement and you know it. We are constantly working to reduce civilian casualties that result from our self-defense against extremist aggression. For instance, we have new warheads (for drones and other things) just finished, with a lower yield; killrange decreased from 10 meters to about 3 meters..



That international community (and especially the part that keeps veto-ing anti-israel resolutions and such) can't protect the Palestinians from (real) Israeli arrogance, until they move to exclusively non-violent resistance forms, AND stop their state-sponsored arab-language severely-anti-israel propaganda.

And Israel attacks Palestinians with 'all out violence' only after parties like Hamas start rocket barrages or other forms of violence that threaten Israeli lives or ability to travel their streets safely.
Attacks by Israel on the Hamas leadership that serve to provoke Hamas into said counter-productive violence, I do not endorse, but the fact remains it's Hamas' refusal to abandon their policy and propaganda to 'eradicate Israel', that provoke such attacks by Israel on the Hamas leadership.

You're kidding me right? Reduce civilian casualties but in two days in Somalia massacre over 2,000 civilians. Ha Ha Ha! Wow, you people are sick. In Iraq and Afghanistan we saw how many warcrimes were covered up. With the exception of several European countries. America fucked up the West's image. And we don't want to get started with WW2 where the West made Germany pay for reparations they weren't responsible for. Or when Britain started the war but nevertheless blamed Germany and bombed over 300,000 German civilians indiscriminately.

Lets not forget your nation when it was occupied by Germany. I'm sure you exercised peaceful means you jackass. And even if you did believe in doing so the whole West was behind your back while the West is sucking up to Israel and won't dare condemn them.

The last part is bogus without providing evidence such as motive, dates and who took action when. Hamas doesn't fire rockets unprovoked. You need to back up your statements. I can back up my statements with the 2009 massacre and the 2012 attack. Events leading up to the war proved who had blood on their hands. The Gaza Strip was also blockaded which is an act of war, had the west been blockaded they would have invaded a nation as did Britain, France and Israel do against Egypt during 56.

Palestinians suffer on a daily basis. This has nothing to do with the violence. It's the occupation that makes them suffer.

 

[Falcon29]

The country vetoing resolutions against Israel calling for justice is the USA. They are the only nation that keeps preventing justice. The other few stupid nations such as Canada were all overwhelmed with nations in support for justice. The security council US vote is what's sickening.

 

[PeaceGen]

You're kidding me right? Reduce civilian casualties but in two days in Somalia massacre over 2,000 civilians. Ha Ha Ha!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Ogaden

2000 civilian casualties from 1995-2008, and no mention of how it was NATO forces that got those people killed.

Wow, you people are sick. In Iraq and Afghanistan we saw how many warcrimes were covered up.

List them please. The only arab source I find credible is alJazeera.

With the exception of several European countries. America fucked up the West's image. And we don't want to get started with WW2 where the West made Germany pay for reparations they weren't responsible for. Or when Britain started the war but nevertheless blamed Germany and bombed over 300,000 German civilians indiscriminately.

You think the Germans were nice?

Lets not forget your nation when it was occupied by Germany. I'm sure you exercised peaceful means you jackass.

HA! thanks for bringing that one up! I've *always* on this forum called muslim violent strategies (since Israel was created) "counter-productive" (for your own people!). That's way worse than 'futile', mind you.

The violence used by the Dutch resistance was *productive*, because they attacked for instance the libraries were citizen registration info was kept, and they killed german military and intel personell.

Shall I paint a picture of the military value of your 'violent resistance', against Israel *and* against any nation that dares defy your objective of driving all Israelis into the sea?

And even if you did believe in doing so the whole West was behind your back while the West is sucking up to Israel and won't dare condemn them.

First of all, I see the EU nations becoming more and more critical of Israel, and very recently Obama has struck the same tone with 'm. Doesn't mean we'll let you 'destroy Israel' tho. We've been quite clear about that since that 6-nation muslim coalition that failed... (1967? or even earlier?)

The last part is bogus without providing evidence such as motive, dates and who took action when.

Google it yourself, and don't discredit NATO/Israeli sources while you do that.

Hamas doesn't fire rockets unprovoked.

Hamas' leaders getting killed by the Israelis is provocation enough for them. Trouble is, they expose their own people to massive risk by 'retaliating'. If you wanna keep your Hamas brass alive, let 'm abandon publicly and privately their desire to see Israel removed from the map.

You need to back up your statements. I can back up my statements with the 2009 massacre and the 2012 attack.

I complained about Israelis using asymetrical force in 2009, and in 2012 they were a whole lot more reduce-civilian-casualty in their approach.

Events leading up to the war proved who had blood on their hands.

I did some digging, and in 2012 at least, Hamas picked a fight after one of their commanders was killed by the Israelis. Same for 2009, if i'm not mistaken.

The Gaza Strip was also blockaded which is an act of war, had the west been blockaded they would have invaded a nation as did Britain, France and Israel do against Egypt during 56.

That blockade is to stop groups like Hamas from stocking up on weapons. And plenty is let through, one of the Israeli twitter feeds shows civilian materials of all kinds going through all the time.

Palestinians suffer on a daily basis. This has nothing to do with the violence. It's the occupation that makes them suffer.

Ha, that's what Hamas wants you to believe, so they can stay in power and practice Jihad that is sooo respected by muslims elsewhere who gladly use you all as cannon fodder, to make ugly pictures and try to portray yourselves as victims .