Modi Wants Indian Railways to be Better Than Airports, Calls for Private Sector Role

[janon]

subsidy is a problem, but it has been over-exaggerated, inefficiency and mismanagement of funds with corruption is the bigger leach
lots of nation subsidies, hell even US and EU subsidies for their poor

No, the USA provides welfare checks to the poor. That is, they give them money directly each month and let them choose what to do with that money. But consumer goods are sold at market rates. Overall, that results in far less burden than subsidizing things. And consumer goods (especially food) become affordable for everybody.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Also something people haven't touched here.

A lot of people do not pay for train tickets, I want to know how much that hits the pockets of the Indian railways.

Same as with electricity theft. And corruption within the system that overrun the projects.

The subsidies have to be managed smartly.

mismanagement again, losses electricity companies face are staggering .. losses faced by petroleum companies too because of theft

Any draw back is Our petroleum companies are bloody inefficient, most all of them (except reliance) cannot process Hard Crude oil(cheaper) and process sweet crude(expensive)
more over the efficiency of conversion from crude to petrol is quite low ( most refineries are now 4 decades old)

No, the USA provides welfare checks to the poor. That is, they give them money directly each month and let them choose what to do with that money. But consumer goods ar sold at market rates. Overall, that results in far less burden than subsidizing things. And consumer goods (especially food) become affordable for everybody.

apart from cash (would lead to scam in India)
US Obama care is subsidy
Education is subsidized
apart from them
Agricultural subsidy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 9 Foods the U.S. Government is Paying You to Eat
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/01/us/government-incentives.html?_r=0
Massive US Government Subsidies for GE Soybeans
The Average American Family Pays $6,000 a Year in Subsidies to Big Business | Alternet
Fossil Fuel Subsidies in the U.S. | Oil Change International
Over Half of All U.S. Tax Subsidies Go to Four Industries. Guess Which Ones? | ThinkProgress
$6 Billion Wind Power Subsidy Expires; Battle Looms to Extend It
and many many more

 

[Bang Galore]

LPG subsidies are basically for lower middle and lower class, who clearly can't afford a cylinder at 1000-1200 bucks agreed, aadhar would have played a role here

Not really, a cylinder at around Rs.700/- to 750/- should be workable, after all it is not like one would need a cylinder every week. Aadhar should have been used for complete verification & number of subsidised cylinders should have been capped at 6 (one every two months). An increase in onion prices by Rs.30-40 per kg would do more damage than the suggested Rs.300/- increase.

here is the twist, we are basically a economy that runs of diesel, transportation would take a hit with heavy deregulation, its not only diesel that hikes food prices, its routin unwanted challans that the trasnport industry pays both legal and illegal

The point here is why allow diesel private vehicles to run at all? On subsidised fuel? It is unfair that a poor guy on his two wheeler & the common man have to subsidise rich car drivers & taxis. Why not atleast charge Rs.1000/- per month (2,000/- per month for taxis) on diesel cars as a subsidy recovery charge. Not the best way but atleast much better than now.

We need to toll every highway, state or national so that the users are the ones paying & there is more money to build even more infrastructure.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Not really, a cylinder at around Rs.700/- to 750/- should be workable, after all it is not like one would need a cylinder every week. Aadhar should have been used for complete verification & number of subsidised cylinders should have been capped at 6 (one every two months). An increase in onion prices by Rs.30-40 per kg would do more damage than the suggested Rs.300/- increase.

cost of unsubsidized cylinder costs Rs.1234, 6 cylinder is workable, but i would like major cities and Tier2 cities to have piped LNG gas pipelines like mumbai, turns out to be far far cheap and caps hoading

The point here is why allow diesel private vehicles to run at all? On subsidised fuel? It is unfair that a poor guy on his two wheeler & the common man have to subsidise rich car drivers & taxis. Why not atleast charge Rs.1000/- per month (2,000/- per month for taxis) as a subsidy recovery charge. Not the best way but atleast much better than now.

Govt charges tax on diesel vehicles already, they plan to increase tax to more than Rs.40,000 compared to petrol model

We need to toll every highway, state or national so that the users are the ones paying & there is more money to build even more infrastructure.

People have started to feel tolls have been misused again, they are charging toll in mumbai for past few decades and road tax are the highest, but sadly due to corruption mumbai has the most pathetic roads in the country

 

[newdelhinsa]

He never said it, he was talking about Railway stations only not Railways.

 

[Bang Galore]

cost of unsubsidized cylinder costs Rs.1234, 6 cylinder is workable, but i would like major cities and Tier2 cities to have piped LNG gas pipelines like mumbai, turns out to be far far cheap and caps hoading

Start with a reduction in the quantum of subsidy.

Govt charges tax on diesel vehicles already, they plan to increase tax to more than Rs.40,000 compared to petrol model

That doesn't effect the vehicles on the road already, my point is to charge throughout their life.

People have started to feel tolls have been misused again, they are charging toll in mumbai for past few decades and road tax are the highest, but sadly due to corruption mumbai has the most pathetic roads in the country

This would be to the government, not necessarily to a private party (regardless of mode of collection). It is the only fair way of road construction, why should someone in some distant small town where roads are bad see his money paid as taxes used for a road or flyover in a big city? Let the users pay & recover the cost or atleast have a fund for maintenance.

The Mumbai roads may be pathetic to you but I guarantee there are people in interior Maharashtra who don't feel the same.

 

[janon]

apart from cash (would lead to scam in India)
US Obama care is subsidy
Education is subsidized
apart from them
Agricultural subsidy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 9 Foods the U.S. Government is Paying You to Eat
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/01/us/government-incentives.html?_r=0
Massive US Government Subsidies for GE Soybeans
The Average American Family Pays $6,000 a Year in Subsidies to Big Business | Alternet
Fossil Fuel Subsidies in the U.S. | Oil Change International
Over Half of All U.S. Tax Subsidies Go to Four Industries. Guess Which Ones? | ThinkProgress
$6 Billion Wind Power Subsidy Expires; Battle Looms to Extend It
and many many more

Those are subsidies to the producers, not the consumers. That's also wrong, but that is a very different issue altogether. And corporate subsidies happen in India as well. An example would be cheap land given to corporate giants.

You said that USA gives subsidies to the poor. The recipients of those subsidies you mentioned are anything but poor.

 

[Bang Galore]

Further to my post on fuel subsidies:

Oil Ministry may propose hike in LPG price by Rs 250 per cylinder

The Oil Ministry is likely to move the Cabinet Committee on Political Affairs (CCPA) soon with an expert panel recommendations of raising cooking gas (LPG) rates by Rs 250 per cylinder and kerosene price by Rs 4 a litre.
The ministry is preparing a draft note for consideration of the CCPA on pricing of diesel, kerosene and LPG, official sources said. Endorsing the previous UPA government's monthly 40-50 paisa per litre increase in diesel prices, the ministry is likely to propose that the monthly revisions may continue till the present Rs 3.40 a litre loss on the fuel is fully bridged.

After the diesel subsidy is eliminated during the course of the year, the ministry wants CCPA to authorise it to decontrol or free price of diesel as was done in case of petrol in June 2010. Since its decontrol, petrol rates are revised on 1st and 16th of very month based on average cost in the previous fortnight. Barring a few exceptions, petrol prices have moved in tandem with cost since then.


Sources said the ministry wants the CCPA to consider recommendations of an expert panel headed by former Planning Commission member Kirit S Parikh. The committee had in October 2013 recommended to the government that diesel prices should be hiked by Rs 5 per litre, kerosene by Rs 4 a litre and domestic LPG rates by Rs 250 per cylinder immediately to cut fuel subsidy bill by Rs 72,000 crore.

But as the monthly increases have led under-recoveries, or the difference between cost and retail price, falling below Rs 5, the ministry is unlikely to press for implementation of the panel's recommendation on diesel. Besides diesel, state-owned oil firms at present lose Rs 33.07 a litre on kerosene sold through the public distribution system (PDS) and Rs 449.17 on LPG, they said.

The Parikh Committee had suggested liquiditing all of the diesel subsidy within one year and was for restricting supply subsidised LPG cylinders to 6 bottles of 14.2-kg per household in a year. Currently, households are entitled to 12 cylinders of LPG on subsidised rates. The sources said the ministry is not taking this recommendation of the panel to the CCPA.

If rates are not increased, state-owned oil firms are projected to end the current fiscal with Rs 1,07,850 crore of under recovery or revenue losses. This will have to be met through a combination of government cash subsidy and contribution from upstream firms like ONGC.

The sources said the ministry is also taking to the CCPA the expert panel's recommendation of continuation of existing pricing principles for controlled petroleum products despite the Finance Ministry's objections. The Finance Ministry is pushing for refiners being paid the equivalent of rates they would have realised if diesel, kerosene and LPG were exported.

The export parity pricing (EEP), it feels, will cut its subsidy outgo by Rs 13,000 crore. After discounting the quality specification of fuel exported by private refiners, the difference between the EPP and currently practiced trade parity pricing was only Rs 108 per kilolitre or 1.5 per cent

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Start with a reduction in the quantum of subsidy.

True, it would help to identify and block people who don't need subsidy firstly

That doesn't effect the vehicles on the road already, my point is to charge throughout their life.

Sadly can't be done, would backfire .. govt of India would be taken to court. Anyways proper de-regularisation is taking place
The point that people miss out is our PSO's are inefficient, who will turn them around, proper management and efficient refinery can bring down prices

This would be to the government, not necessarily to a private party (regardless of mode of collection). It is the only fair way of road construction, why should someone in some distant small town where roads are bad see his money paid as taxes used for a road or flyover in a big city? Let the users pay & recover the cost or atleast have a fund for maintenance.

The Mumbai roads may be pathetic to you but I guarantee there are people in interior Maharashtra who don't feel the same.

sadly the collection is for maintenance the highway we use are tolled and they are pathetic
Bridges are constructed by road taxes and local body taxes, less said about them the better, condition of bridges deteriorate within the first monsoon

 

[Abotani]

laptops are poll politics, do you and me use ration card ? even though we have it, it has been ages since he have actually gone to a shakari bhandaar

Maybe not you and me,but a lot of people do.Laptops are still subsidies one way or the other,so are so many of the other poulist gimmicks.

My main contentions are medical & food subsidy and bit in railways (mass transport)

Which is in doldrums in India.frankly subsidy in these sectors is as good as throwing our taxes down the gutter.

Education is difficult, you see ... education levels will improve with private university and colleges not govt once
LPG i am not sure, it does hit the lower class, to be fair we cant expect them to use chullas or kerosine chullas

I disagree,apart from education I see little scope or need for subsidies.The private sector cannot cater to the lower class education needs.The private sector won't serve the children in far flung areas of India,only public schools cater to them.Even in the western countries,it is the subsidies in public education sector which actually reaps benefits for the society.
It is exactly in public education system that subsidies can be of use.Most of the better universities in India are government affiliated or even if autonomous,in one way or the other linked with the government.To be honest,most of private colleges are shit in India.

 

[temujin]

Also something people haven't touched here.

A lot of people do not pay for train tickets, I want to know how much that hits the pockets of the Indian railways.

Same as with electricity theft. And corruption within the system that overrun the projects.

The subsidies have to be managed smartly.

Install turnstiles at all entry points and automated doors on carriages.Such measures should pay for themselves in a few years through reduced loss of earnings and generate additional income that can be reinvested in the long term..

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

You said that USA gives subsidies to the poor. The recipients of those subsidies you mentioned are anything but poor.

hard cash, sadly that doesn't work in India
others are Obama care and education

Uk it is NHS (free health care), Cash, subsidized houses by counsel

 

[tango87]

be very sure that the problem with this country is not the wrong policies ...its poor implementation...i start my day at wadala mumbai...a 40 storey building..... right here

travel to my office through wadala bridge...which seems like this

and reach my office in lower parel...

which is like this

bottomline: india is a land of contrasts...behave likewise

 

[Bang Galore]

Sadly can't be done, would backfire .. govt of India would be taken to court. Anyways proper de-regularisation is taking place

Can be done, why would it backfire? Rich people in cars asking for subsidy? Courts won't be able to do much, running on subsidised fuel is a reality.

The point that people miss out is our PSO's are inefficient, who will turn them around, proper management and efficient refinery can bring down prices

Overstated, not as if private companies are offering cheaper rates.

sadly the collection is for maintenance the highway we use are tolled and they are pathetic
Bridges are constructed by road taxes and local body taxes, less said about them the better, condition of bridges deteriorate within the first monsoon

Not accurate as a general statement. I have seen tolled roads outside of Bangalore & they are bloody brilliant. Average travel time between Bangalore & Hassan has dropped to 2 hours (180km) from about 3 hours earlier. An elevated flyover to the airport has dropped the time for traveling that distance (of the flyover) to under 15minutes from 30minutes earlier. Use of the NICE road reduces distances from about 2 hours to 30-40 minutes to get to places within Bangalore.

There will always be good & bad experiences but tolled roads are the only fair means to go about spending these huge amounts on infrastructure.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Further to my post on fuel subsidies:

Oil Ministry may propose hike in LPG price by Rs 250 per cylinder

The Oil Ministry is likely to move the Cabinet Committee on Political Affairs (CCPA) soon with an expert panel recommendations of raising cooking gas (LPG) rates by Rs 250 per cylinder and kerosene price by Rs 4 a litre.
The ministry is preparing a draft note for consideration of the CCPA on pricing of diesel, kerosene and LPG, official sources said. Endorsing the previous UPA government's monthly 40-50 paisa per litre increase in diesel prices, the ministry is likely to propose that the monthly revisions may continue till the present Rs 3.40 a litre loss on the fuel is fully bridged.

After the diesel subsidy is eliminated during the course of the year, the ministry wants CCPA to authorise it to decontrol or free price of diesel as was done in case of petrol in June 2010. Since its decontrol, petrol rates are revised on 1st and 16th of very month based on average cost in the previous fortnight. Barring a few exceptions, petrol prices have moved in tandem with cost since then.


Sources said the ministry wants the CCPA to consider recommendations of an expert panel headed by former Planning Commission member Kirit S Parikh. The committee had in October 2013 recommended to the government that diesel prices should be hiked by Rs 5 per litre, kerosene by Rs 4 a litre and domestic LPG rates by Rs 250 per cylinder immediately to cut fuel subsidy bill by Rs 72,000 crore.

But as the monthly increases have led under-recoveries, or the difference between cost and retail price, falling below Rs 5, the ministry is unlikely to press for implementation of the panel's recommendation on diesel. Besides diesel, state-owned oil firms at present lose Rs 33.07 a litre on kerosene sold through the public distribution system (PDS) and Rs 449.17 on LPG, they said.

The Parikh Committee had suggested liquiditing all of the diesel subsidy within one year and was for restricting supply subsidised LPG cylinders to 6 bottles of 14.2-kg per household in a year. Currently, households are entitled to 12 cylinders of LPG on subsidised rates. The sources said the ministry is not taking this recommendation of the panel to the CCPA.

If rates are not increased, state-owned oil firms are projected to end the current fiscal with Rs 1,07,850 crore of under recovery or revenue losses. This will have to be met through a combination of government cash subsidy and contribution from upstream firms like ONGC.

The sources said the ministry is also taking to the CCPA the expert panel's recommendation of continuation of existing pricing principles for controlled petroleum products despite the Finance Ministry's objections. The Finance Ministry is pushing for refiners being paid the equivalent of rates they would have realised if diesel, kerosene and LPG were exported.

The export parity pricing (EEP), it feels, will cut its subsidy outgo by Rs 13,000 crore. After discounting the quality specification of fuel exported by private refiners, the difference between the EPP and currently practiced trade parity pricing was only Rs 108 per kilolitre or 1.5 per cent

http://www.iosrjournals.org/iosr-jhss/papers/Vol9-issue2/N092103114.pdf