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Mobile power plant at port

The thing that looks wiered is that sudenly we have shortage of electricity. things were fine just last year. how come we can have so much shortage in such short time. I have heard that nuclear power plants are not working but even then we should only have small shortage i.e. 462 MW ???? any idea????
 
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I would say nearly 400MW is coming from Nuclear Sources at the moment.

The problem lies with the Hydro Output since the IRSA doesnot allow WAPDA to out flow required amount of Water for more Production.

Tarbella is not producing more than 1200MW because of less out flow and the same would be the case with Magalla. Ghazi Brotha is a Run-River type DAM hence it is differenet. But Tarbella requires 20000 + Cusecs of Water Discharge to produce Electricity in Capacity of 2000+ MW.

Less Availability of Water from Indus River or IRSA strategy for Irrigation water release..... I cannot be certain but one thing is certain that we have 1000 MW less than our capacity since the whole country is experiencing the LOAD SHEDING IN SUMMER AGAIN!
 
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Proud to be Pakistani:
I was reading your posts, and I would like to let you know that there are several misassumptions in what you have said. I'm not trying to discredit you by saying the above statement; it's just that your knowledge of power generation is pretty skewed. I'm no expert either but I'll just state what I know. Since my post is too long, I’ve separated it into parts.

Firstly, power generation systems are very complex and further are affected by a whole range of factors. Secondly, augmenting power capacity is very difficult.
 
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Tarbella DAM:

A power station on the right bank near the toe of the main dam houses fourteen(14), power units, 4 units, each with installed generating capacity of 175 MW are installed on tunnel 1, 6 units (NO.5 to 10), 175 MW each on tunnel NO.2 and 4 Units ( NO.11-14) of 432 MW each on Tunnel 3, thus making total generating capacity of Tarbela Power Station as 3478 MW..

Tarbela has the installed capacity of 3478 MW from 14 units. During the high reservoir period, Tarbela is able to generate 3692 MW due to permissible overloading of 15% (Units 1~10) whereas the capability reduces to about 1350 MW in the lean water flow period (winter season).

One reason for Short Coming!

Because of huge amounts of sediment... the actual life span gets reduced every Year. As per my knowledge Tarbella is at 70 percent of the total usable capacity. Dredging is not an economical option. Another option is to get newer and more powerful Generating Units which requires money which WAPDA doesnot have.

Which gives roughly the Capacity to Generate 2,336 MW as of today, Provided the IRSA allows for requried release of Water.... nearly 20000+ cusecs of Water.


Second Biggest reason for the Problem!


Due to less outflow... Less power generation!

When one says “total generation capacity,” bear in mind that it is a very optimal figure. The effect of climatic factors on hydropower systems is more than that on nuclear and thermal ones.

You are right in your observation that the power generating capacity of the Tarbella dam is “variable.” During the lean water flow period, a dam’s reservoir is responsible for maintaining the requisite essential water flow. Since Indus carries considerable residual, Tarbella faces heavy sedimentation. The life of the Tarbella dam is estimated to be 50 years. This implies that after 50 odd years or so, the dam would be filled with sediment to its full capacity and “cease to be a dam.” Therefore, the question of dredging not being economical has more to do with “lack of money,” and not “infeasibility.” Sooner or later dredging or some sort of engineering operation will have to be carried out to ensure that the dam remains feasible. Further, as the years go by, and presuming that the sediments are not cleared, the power generating capacity of Tarbella will reduce further. However, this “operation” is again nothing less than mammoth. If my knowledge is correct, it will entail at least partial shutting down of the dam.

Further, IRSA needs to tread a balance between the need to replenish the dam’s reservoir and supplying water for irrigation and power generation. You simply cannot let the reservoir levels fall bellow a critical juncture. The result would be the complete shut down of the power generating capacity of the dam and highly reduced water flows.
 
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The first and second tunnels have 10 generators of 175-megawatt capacity each. But the third tunnel, which became operational in the early-90s, has four generators of 432-MW each. Only option is to replace 10 generators of first two tunnels with a combined capacity of 1,750MW with 10 new ones with 4,320MW —- an increase of 2,570MW.

Good options are usually not taken in Pakistan!


Problem is that this is the Only option ............

Power generating systems are not Lego blocks; they are very complex. You simply cannot take generators out and put new ones back again. The three tunnels you’ve mentioned are different in engineering and construction. On the face of it, the first two tunnels share more though. Further, the 175MW generators will be different than the 432MW ones. I’m also damn sure that tunnel three will have a higher flow of water. First of all I doubt if replacing the 10 generators is feasible because I do not think the dam has the capacity (water flow) to run fourteen 432MW generators at the same time. Even if the dam has the capacity, does the entire replacement process enjoy constructional feasibility? In all likelihood this is not the case; if it would have, it would have been announced to appease the populace. Even if it is feasible, replacing the generators is not as easy as it sounds. Both, the first and the second, tunnels will have to be “reconstructed,” and during this process the dam will only have four generators running. So your premise of replacing 175MW generators with 432MW ones is unfeasible.
 
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During the last ten years the normal average of water availability in Tarbela dam stood at 2.446 MAF and for the last calendar year it was also 2.446 MAF. But by the start of year 2008 water deposits at the Tarbela dam was 1.758 MAF that has declined to 0.691 MAF all time low during the last ten years.

On October 1, 2007, 3.855 MAF water was available at Mangala dam that has come down to 0.664 MAF on Feberuary 16 that stood at 0.804 MAF on January 3, 2008. Annual average water availability at Mangala dam during last ten years was around 1.480 MAF against the last year’s availability of 2.078 MAF. Last year water reserves at Mangla dam were 2.078 MAF well over annual average during last ten years but this year these reserves have gone down to 0.664 MAF.

Water Availability is another major Problem!

Agreed; this shows the lack of foresight displayed by the previous government.
 
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POWER GENERATION CAPACITY OF PAKISTAN​

The total power generation capacity in Pakistan is of the order of 17,457 MW. This includes the hydropower generation capacity of 5,013 MW, the thermal power generation capacity of 12,169 MW and the nuclear power generation capacity of 462 MW.

Based on the present generation capacity, the hydro:thermal/ nuclear mix in the country is 29: 71.

The main sources of electricity generation in Pakistan are hydel, oil, gas, coal and nuclear power. Among these, hydel power is the only renewable source of energy; the others are mainly fossil fuels. Hydel power is also the least expensive form of electricity.

The potential for hydropower generation in Pakistan is of the order of 40,000 MW.

POWER DEMAND OF PAKISTAN​

According to a study, the provincial power demands in Pakistan are:

Punjab: The current power demand in the Punjab is about 7,027 MW which is expected to rise to 29,103 MW in 2024-25 under the most conservative growth rate of 6.1%.

Sindh: The current power demand of 2,642 MW in Sindh is expected to rise to 10,993 MW in 2024-25.

NWFP: The current power demand of 1,697 MW in NWFP is expected to rise to 7,018 MW in 2024-25.

Balochistan: In Balochistan, the current power demand of 474 MW is expected to rise to 1,964 MW in 2024-25

Calculation of Provincial Power Demand and Capacity is approximate.

Total POWER DEMAND: 11,840 MW.

Considering the existing setup of Transmission and Distribution accounting for a loss of 30% in Line Losses and etc.

Total Capacity of Supply: 12219 MW

Which is sufficient to fullfill the requirements of the Country right now but!


Now comes the real Issue!

Why in the name of GOD we have load Sheding when the supply is sufficient to meet the requirements!

Again “power generation capacity,” which is not the same as the “actual amount of power produced.”

Increasing power capacity by setting up of new plants is a long drawn affair, often lasting years. Further, existing plants need maintenance and repairs too and consequently need to be shut down periodically.

In the short-term, I think the most feasible way out for the GoP is to encourage and if possible provide incentives for power conservation. Any excess industrial capacity should be forwarded to the grid. Encourage rotational shifts and rotational weekly-offs in factories to minimise peak loads; encourage malls to build up their own capacity. Clamp down heavily on power theft, overcharge consumers who use excessive power, and subsidise consumers who use less power. Abolish taxes on solar and wind power equipment. Provide tax concessions to sugar mills that can augment power capacity.

In the medium term, link the grid with neighbouring countries and negotiate pricing and other such formalities in advance, so that in times of acute shortage, power can be bought, even if at very high rates. Improve distribution networks and minimize distribution losses.

In the long term, establish more coal-based power plants (as Pakistan has considerable coal reserves) and nuclear power plants (which your government is already doing). Encourage solar and wind power usage; augment hydro power capacity “as much as possible.”

But the bigger question is where will the money for all these measures come from?
 
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WAPDA....

Produces 11000 MW + in normal conditions.

If the Indus River Authority of Pakistan...IRSA stops WAPDA from releasing water through Dams and restricts them to a certain level the output of the Dams is less then the capacity.

Money is not a major Issue since replacing Generating Units in Tarbella and Magalla will cost less than builting few new DAMS.

Its the Planing Strategy that is lacking in GOP regarding the issue of Electricity. Making energy available through coal is another option but for me utilizing the existing setup to its full capacity and modernizing the setup already available is the key to success here!

Wind energy was and is a good option for Sindh but still nothing has been heard regarding the projects started.
 
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ANY NEWS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BELOW PROJECT!

New Park Energy Phase I, a 45-megawatt installation that will be the first step of a 400-megawatt wind project, has been approved by the government of Pakistan, through its Alternative Energy Development Board (AEDB). NPE has committed to work with GE Energy to reach a goal of 1,000 megawatts. GE Energy, one of the world's leading wind turbine suppliers, has been selected to provide 30 of its 1.5-megawatt wind turbines for phase I.

New Park Energy Phase I will be the first commercial wind energy project in Pakistan, where the government has set a goal to have 10% of the country's energy produced from renewable sources by the year 2015. As a significant part of that effort, AEDB has forecast the installation of 1800-2700 megawatts of wind power capacity by 2015, with an annual installation rate of 170-270 megawatts.

The New Park Energy project will be located near Port Qasim and will provide wind-generated electricity to the Karachi Electric Supply Company, to help support residential and industrial expansion in the Karachi area. Plans call for the project to be developed in 45-megawatt increments. Groundbreaking for Phase I is scheduled for the third quarter of 2005, with the wind turbine installation to be completed by the end of that year. The total 400-megawatt installation is expected by 2007.
 
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WAPDA....

Produces 11000 MW + in normal conditions.

If the Indus River Authority of Pakistan...IRSA stops WAPDA from releasing water through Dams and restricts them to a certain level the output of the Dams is less then the capacity.

Money is not a major Issue since replacing Generating Units in Tarbella and Magalla will cost less than builting few new DAMS.

Its the Planing Strategy that is lacking in GOP regarding the issue of Electricity. Making energy available through coal is another option but for me utilizing the existing setup to its full capacity and modernizing the setup already available is the key to success here!

Wind energy was and is a good option for Sindh but still nothing has been heard regarding the projects started.

Firstly, I'm not defending the GoP. All I'm saying is that your suggestions were largely unfeasible.

These are not normal conditions; the water levels are low.

The IRSA has to maintain a certain water level in the reservior. Let's assume that IRSA allows the water to flow at the maximum capacity. The power situation will imrpove considerably but the reservior will deplete at a much faster rate. The flow of the Indus will not be enough to fill the reservior, due to which the water level in the reservior will fall bellow the minimum threshold. Once that happens, you cannot generate power and neither can you allow water to flow for irrigation and agriculture. You simply have to fill up the reservior again. Also the losses of such a move are very very high.

I've already pointed out the difficulties of "replacing" the generators, which by the way are not related to money.
 
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ANY NEWS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BELOW PROJECT!

New Park Energy Phase I, a 45-megawatt installation that will be the first step of a 400-megawatt wind project, has been approved by the government of Pakistan, through its Alternative Energy Development Board (AEDB). NPE has committed to work with GE Energy to reach a goal of 1,000 megawatts. GE Energy, one of the world's leading wind turbine suppliers, has been selected to provide 30 of its 1.5-megawatt wind turbines for phase I.

New Park Energy Phase I will be the first commercial wind energy project in Pakistan, where the government has set a goal to have 10% of the country's energy produced from renewable sources by the year 2015. As a significant part of that effort, AEDB has forecast the installation of 1800-2700 megawatts of wind power capacity by 2015, with an annual installation rate of 170-270 megawatts.

The New Park Energy project will be located near Port Qasim and will provide wind-generated electricity to the Karachi Electric Supply Company, to help support residential and industrial expansion in the Karachi area. Plans call for the project to be developed in 45-megawatt increments. Groundbreaking for Phase I is scheduled for the third quarter of 2005, with the wind turbine installation to be completed by the end of that year. The total 400-megawatt installation is expected by 2007.

I'm completely unaware of this.
 
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Agreed; this shows the lack of foresight displayed by the previous government.

my dear vish - the lack of foresight lies with the people who refuse to agree to build more water resorviours which will also generate energy. we are already a water and energy deficit country and the people continue to bicker amongst themselves and the politicians have their heads up where the sun dont shine.
 
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Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Mobile power plant at port

ISLAMABAD: The US Ambassador in Pakistan, Anne W Patterson, and other US officials has made an offer to Pakistan to set up a 200 MW mobile power plant at the Karachi port. The plant will be installed on a ship and will reach Pakistan from the US within a few days, a private TV channel reported. The US is also keen on providing resources for the installation of IPPs and other hydel projects. app

Mobile Power plant
fatman17;158965]my dear vish - the lack of foresight lies with the people who refuse to agree to build more water resorviours which will also generate energy. we are already a water and energy deficit country and the people continue to bicker amongst themselves and the politicians have their heads up where the sun dont shine.

Wow, I missed such important thread.........!:eek:

Dear Fatman17 ………… Well Said I appreciate your clear & realistic approach about the lazy decisions makers, well said cool:

As far as the news about USA offer of mobile power plant, its cud be a good opportunity if it is not one of the “strategic-trick” of Israelo-American collusion, to be used as “base camp” equipped with "high-tech wireless technology", for multipurpose; to play its ultimate role and "check met" to us, on current geo-strategically "Chess Board".

They cud be multi-benefitted break through for these enemies, by just stepping-in as first entry, under cover of “Power supply AID”, as says make two hunt with single bullet" !!! They can;

  • Keep-watch on Iranian costal activities and to supervise and random support for their agents engaged in Iran.
  • May be help full to Israel air force by guiding their Fighters jets or missiles during any expected attack, its wireless technology!
  • Keep watch-on Pakistani costal activities, etc.

This might be a trap for which they already have worked out and dragged our country up to the “crucial-situation”, with support of the corrupt Mafia of greedy politicians and bureaucrats.:devil:

The evil forces wish to drag Pakistani nation, up to the extent of the embracing situation where every one anxious just to get bread and no one can be able even to think other then that, who are enjoying by rigging the rich resources of our country. But, these stupid evil forces doesn’t knows that, due to their regular mal-efforts, we Pakistani Nation got immunized up to the certain extent Alhamdulillah, we can think better in worstiest hot atmosphere by having faith on God. That is why as older saying “Devil:devil:is not intelligent” He just uses his traditional malpractices to upset the situations for human beings.

Rather to portray whole current artificial “horrific worst” scenario created by black-sheeps of our country by their deliberated malpractices, they boost-up their continue efforts to imperil the country and its public by particular focusing on; Sudden inflation of Currency, prices of food and fuel and unemployment which ultimately to show Pakistani failure as per planned by their masters the opponent forces of Pakistan, for certain reasons. Details and references will discuss later on some other thread.


Right now as per topic of this thread, I would like to highlight few logical points in lieu of the Power shortage in Pakistan.

No doubt that, there is a dire need to create new aspects and sources to enhance power generation and water resources as well, for socio-economical growth and industrial developments.

But, as far as the situation we Pakistani are being faced is obviously not by default, but it is one of the most dreadful conspiracies engineered by traitors. This is staged and encouraged by mismanagement of the cunnings.

We may all understand that, the major power consuming sector is manufacturing industry, while there was no any industrial growth rather then a few development shown in service sector (which is not supposed to consume huge power) and even not a single industry established since last 4 years our there was no industrial development and even most of established industry, particular related to textiles and garments manufacturing sector have been closed or the remaining factories low their production capacities simultaneously, drawn their capital and invested in property and stakes mostly in Dubai due to unfavorable and unpredictable circumstances and laws, the undue cotton crises (as usual due to mismanagement) and international market situation etc., which is causes not only a big unemployment but also caused the major deficit in Exports. For instance; Naveena Denim has reduced their production, by almost 80%, while Bonanza have also been closed their main factory and draw their capital to finance in property in Dubai.
So think then where is power gone?:tsk:

On other side, I have been observed personally during my visit several cities, and specially in Karachi that, There is no differences found lights “ON” during around 24 hours of Street lights, road signs, the neon signs boards on markets, lights on signposts hoardings, and even I found 4 to 6 heavy bulbs (approx 200 to 500 watts) were flashed on each carts and cabins of fruits and vegetables standing aside of main streets or roads, even during the day timings. Additionally, the sparkling marriage halls where I found even they are unoccupied and empty but sparkled with not less then 300 mercury bulbs along with simples but heavy bulbs of 200 to 500 watts flashed just to keep lighting in their front while I couldn’t count the lights inside but you may assume by its preface in front lighting. Same thing found in restaurants etc, but yes little dark in parks (Good facilitation). Think about the problems facing by school or collage going pupils, for study during their exams they need just a low voltage energy saver if load-shading would not be there.

It is not a big task to see these examples flourished everywhere and easily accessible its visibility everywhere for every one specially in Karachi, I got pictures of occasions and tried to post here after reduced their pixels for reference here.

Here is a question risen that, when power charges are so heavy then how the business premises and carts can afford such heavy lights……………its so simple as such I leave it to assume for friends.

It’s really a great surprise for me to see that all as stated above, and I have asked myself that where is the shortage…?……………and if really exists so why don’t the city managers manage it properly by stopping its unnecessary usage and wastage by adopting good governance if they really have public mandate so public should follow them to organize good governance and society, otherwise its all mass up by central and area wise mafia dons, who are creating chaos to get benefitted additional money to fill there deep stomachs by hook & crooks, at the cost country integrity and public peace and dignity.

I conclude the topic that, behind this charm full offer, there cud be a mal intentioned format of deliberately jeopardizing the systems to show a dire need of shortage of power, with support of their paid beneficiaries (opportunists) to ensure the placement of their base station in the shape of Mobile power station…. which would be acceptable whole heartedly by nation who already dragged up to the worst situation, and obliged.
“rind key rind rahey –haat sey janat bhi na gayee”
 

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In following of my upper latest reply, Its is very obviously vision spreaded over the city on main roads, I have taken lot of pictures on sevral areas, I wished to upload maximum with thread but only 5 can be allowed.

While, as i stated that, its is not a difficult to find out such occassions as i briefed in my previous thread, it can be observe anywhere open, and due to these malpractices and paid delibrated negligencies the peoples and pupils are sufferd desperately. Now I have simple questions:

Where is our sophisticated Media, columnists and analysts ???

Where are our paid service personals (bureaucrates) and district or city managers ???

Where are our political actors who supposed to served nation by providing basic needs and facilitation under good governance????

Anyone of above address catagory did ever think that, what we do with our nation and what we are giving to our new generation ???

But it has to noticed that, our youngesters are more capable, honest and outstanding, snag's immunized, they ultimatly will overcome on by their dedicated confrontation.to break all holdups .... no one can suppress them to fly on high skies :pakistan:
 
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