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Meeting the president

ajpirzada

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I did not intend to write on this subject because decades of public service have taught me the value of restraint when it come to publicly commenting on meetings with the head of state.


More so, when these are designed for, as stated by the president, ‘brainstorming and benefiting from the collective wisdom of former members of the bureaucracy’. However, last Sunday’s article ‘The advent of Asif Zardari’ by my friend and senior colleague Kunwar Idris — who was also invited to meet the president — has persuaded me to set aside this unwritten taboo.


The meeting was unusual. Never before had a head of state invited so many retired bureaucrats and asked them to speak their mind on national issues. The mere fact that several dozen retired bureaucrats, who could no longer influence decision-making, were invited to the presidency for a frank discussion showed that the incumbent valued good counsel.


Each former bureaucrat had served past governments in different capacities, acquiring expertise, perspective and knowledge from which any government could benefit. After all, there is no monopoly on the truth and wisdom that emerge from discussions among a large number of people. Each individual lays claim to a bit of the reality. The feeling that the president saw merit in drawing from this pool of knowledge was reassuring. A striking feature in President Zardari’s discourse was his emphasis on developing genuine consensus among different political forces and interest groups. Kunwar Idris has concluded that in his passion for consensus Zardari has ignored the ‘huge cost’ involved, and points to the jumbo-sized cabinets.


If I recall correctly Zardari himself sought to explain it by saying that not only had the population increased manifold since partition, the nature and multiplicity of problems too had grown over the years. It was no longer possible to run the state effectively with only seven ministers as was possible at the time of independence or with 13 ministers later in West Pakistan. Not the most convincing argument for jumbo-sized cabinets but the president had a point.
This, however, is not the most important issue on which to judge the president in a parliamentary democracy.


A meeting of a few hours is not long enough to pass judgment. But it does permit one to observe the compass. President Zardari seemed to be breaking new ground on certain critical national issues. His frank talk that evening, particularly about militancy, was most refreshing. He appeared desperately to be looking for solutions. A former senior bureaucrat said that the militants were not controlled because the civil bureaucracy had weakened over the years. The president was quick to dismiss this in a frank manner.


Zardari said he thought that the militants and extremists had emerged on the national scene not because the civil bureaucracy was weak. In fact, they had been deliberately created and nurtured with the help of the international community as an instrument of policy in the 1980s. He then went on to advise the former bureaucrats to be ‘truthful to ourselves and make a candid admission of the realities’. It was refreshing to hear him say that the terrorists of today were the heroes of yesteryears until 9/11. They then began to haunt us.


Although it is common knowledge that the militants were deliberately created the state has been in denial. Zardari has broken new ground in the fight against militancy by admitting that they were a product of deliberate policy.
It is true that while the threat from home-grown extremists and foreign militants grew the civil administration weakened. Mr Idris has a point in asserting that Musharraf’s seeking to change the system with the nazims and making them responsible for law and order as well had undermined the civil administration. But then it would not be fair to blame Zardari for what Musharraf did, particularly now that the provinces are seeking to reclaim their powers to make changes in the local government laws.


The president did not agree with the suggestion of holding fresh elections. But this should not be held against him. It is hard to appreciate fresh elections just because Musharraf has exited the scene or there’s tribal violence or because the nation had seen its worst judicial crisis. Not many in the country would want general elections within 18 months of the last one.


During dinner, the president spoke of harmony and was against the concentration of power in a few hands. We want to keep all the political forces together in a harmonious relationship, he said, adding that we were ‘at the brink’ and could not indulge in political games for personal gains. He said that he knew that if he concentrated too much power in his own hands it would last for too short a time. For power to be effectively used for long-lasting public good it must be diffused. He also appeared to appreciate the prime minister over the way he handled the difficulties of a coalition government. This was no small talk.


On balance Zardari appeared keen on a consensus, open to suggestion, interested in learning about different perspectives and willing to learn from past mistakes. He seemed almost impatient to break new ground in domains that have slipped out of the hands of the civilian leadership.


The point is not to assert that he is free of controversies. He has been mired in many since his marriage to Benazir Bhutto, especially when the latter became prime minister. He has been the butt of jokes and innuendos and the subject of some serious allegations. But then which public leader has not been accused of errors of omission and commission? The point is that as president a new aspect of Zardari is coming to light. He has been in the driving seat for less than a year and deserves to be given time before being judged in a hurry.



The writer is a former federal secretary
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Meeting the president

---------- Post added at 11:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

i think he has improved a lot after judiciary crisis
 
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i think he has improved a lot after judiciary crisis

He is good in corruption, taking everyone with him, while giving their share of corruption.

Bloody, he actually given presidential order on POL prices after Judaical crisis, he made agreement with iran on gas for higher price after the judicial crises. billions of dollars received to pakistan from after judical crisis, but foreign reserves were only increase by 23 million $$, he went to china where he rejected good offer for electricity just so he can make some corruption money from IPPs.

how he actually improved? he was always good in politics, speaking lie, fake promises and stupid smiles, and he is same as now.
 
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-POL prices had to be increased. we were in talks with IMF in those days if they wouldnt have been increased then we would not be gettin the next tranche.
-Reserves now stand at more than 12bn. i dont know where did u get ur figure from.
-where else were u planing to get gas from if not iran? it will take ages to import it from tajikistan given the security situation in afghanistan is not gud which is where the gas pipeline is supposed to pass. this gas from iran will only be used to electricity generation. and is therefore economical.
-its not easy to import electricity from china. we dont have that much infrastructure in our northern region to support such a deal. gov has said that electricity problem will be solved by the end of this year. so lets give them some time.
-this gov has been successful i dealin with the IDP crisis. this gov has been successfull in gettin the required political support for military operation in malakand.
-he has learned to avoid confrontation which is a gud thing. all the judges recommended by CJ were appointed by him.
-he has acknowledged that we supported militants in the past to achieve our short term goals. and it takes some guts to do such a thing.

though there are many short-comings but lets also look at the gud side
 
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-POL prices had to be increased. we were in talks with IMF in those days if they wouldnt have been increased then we would not be gettin the next tranche.
-Reserves now stand at more than 12bn. i dont know where did u get ur figure from.
-where else were u planing to get gas from if not iran? it will take ages to import it from tajikistan given the security situation in afghanistan is not gud which is where the gas pipeline is supposed to pass. this gas from iran will only be used to electricity generation. and is therefore economical.
-its not easy to import electricity from china. we dont have that much infrastructure in our northern region to support such a deal. gov has said that electricity problem will be solved by the end of this year. so lets give them some time.
-this gov has been successful i dealin with the IDP crisis. this gov has been successfull in gettin the required political support for military operation in malakand.
-he has learned to avoid confrontation which is a gud thing. all the judges recommended by CJ were appointed by him.
-he has acknowledged that we supported militants in the past to achieve our short term goals. and it takes some guts to do such a thing.

though there are many short-comings but lets also look at the gud side

I like this post. Nobody likes Zardari the person but one has to remember that pakistan and its political dynamics have changed the day the CJP got reappointed by public pressure. It has made the rulers realize that if they are notr careful their house of cards will tumble down pretty quickly.
I have always felt that in some manners Zardari as a politician has proved to be a shrewd character. he has handled two major crises, the deflation of the Sharif band wagon and the imminent war with india astutely. As to corruption who in pakistani politics has not been corrupt to some extent? The major drawback of his governance is his reputation and the unwillingness of the Middle Eastern Governments to take him seriously. I dont think we have too many options but to see him complete his tenure and have a round of elections.
It will take 2 decades of continuous rule by democracy for Pakistan to clear the scum off the political scene and install people who know what they want and how to get it. I dont think we have too many options but to wait and see how things go.
WaSalam
Araz
 
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I like this post. Nobody likes Zardari the person but one has to remember that pakistan and its political dynamics have changed the day the CJP got reappointed by public pressure. It has made the rulers realize that if they are notr careful their house of cards will tumble down pretty quickly.
I have always felt that in some manners Zardari as a politician has proved to be a shrewd character. he has handled two major crises, the deflation of the Sharif band wagon and the imminent war with india astutely. As to corruption who in pakistani politics has not been corrupt to some extent? The major drawback of his governance is his reputation and the unwillingness of the Middle Eastern Governments to take him seriously. I dont think we have too many options but to see him complete his tenure and have a round of elections.
It will take 2 decades of continuous rule by democracy for Pakistan to clear the scum off the political scene and install people who know what they want and how to get it. I dont think we have too many options but to wait and see how things go.
WaSalam
Araz
I second that...Democracy will take some time to evolve but ultimately it's the best governance system for Pakistan along with completely independent judiciary so these Rulers are accountable.
 
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-POL prices had to be increased. we were in talks with IMF in those days if they wouldnt have been increased then we would not be gettin the next tranche.

>>> Sorry, if IMF Loan means more pressure on me. Then i don't want the F****n Loan. Due to this decision every daily utility prices have been increase which haven't been fallen after worst crisis hit the world and prices lowered throughout the world. btw what is the total %age of income+taxes on POL? do you know that?

-Reserves now stand at more than 12bn. i dont know where did u get ur figure from.

>>>how much they were 2 months back? this is what i meant. increase, yeah sorry i missed on decimal position i.e. $431.4 million. But do u know how much loan+aid already been received? we received 3 installments of 4 billion $ from IMF+world bank, and around 1 billion $ from US aid. try this Pak foreign reserves rise above $12 bn,7/16/2009 10:04:09 AM

-where else were u planing to get gas from if not iran? it will take ages to import it from tajikistan given the security situation in afghanistan is not gud which is where the gas pipeline is supposed to pass. this gas from iran will only be used to electricity generation. and is therefore economical.

>> you are not in touch to political news, if you were then you wont be saying that. previously the discussion was on lower prices, even less then what cost comes on pakistani sui gas. even shaukat tareen mention number of times that we will do agreement on lower prices, but when zardari went to iran we had agreement with iran on higher prices.

-its not easy to import electricity from china. we dont have that much infrastructure in our northern region to support such a deal. gov has said that electricity problem will be solved by the end of this year. so lets give them some time.

>>> yeah on what rate? have you checked the rate with IPPs? IPPs are giving around 7 rupees/unit, how much you per unit bill you receive? this is called subsidy, which pak government is paying to wapda from 13 yrs, just because of previous agreements of Zardari with IPPs.

-this gov has been successful i dealin with the IDP crisis. this gov has been successfull in gettin the required political support for military operation in malakand.

>> support politicians on what cost? try to monitor Fazul-ur-rehman's assets.

-he has learned to avoid confrontation which is a gud thing. all the judges recommended by CJ were appointed by him.

>> lolxx.. i think you have forgotten the pressure of the people of pakistan & army on him during this crisis, he has learned his learn

-he has acknowledged that we supported militants in the past to achieve our short term goals. and it takes some guts to do such a thing.

>> some guts to face shame in face of the world? do u remember why FM was kicked out?

though there are many short-comings but lets also look at the gud side

>> I don't expect any good from this man atleast!!
 
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>>> Sorry, if IMF Loan means more pressure on me. Then i don't want the F****n Loan. Due to this decision every daily utility prices have been increase which haven't been fallen after worst crisis hit the world and prices lowered throughout the world. btw what is the total %age of income+taxes on POL? do you know that?

your country was going bankrupt. u didnt have enough money to pay for your import bills. there was a war goin on which was costin us a lot. oil prices doubled. there was weat shortage coz musharraf exported it all. no one was willin to give us aid. under all these conditions where were u planin to get the money from. there was no other option but to go to IMF. and when you go to IMF then you have to agree to their terms as well.
there are so many other sectors on which we dont pay any tax. agriculture (major chunk of our economy) is tax free. stock exchange is tax free. real estate pays very little tax. now gov needs money to run the country. for that they tax and sometimes double tax other items.

>>>how much they were 2 months back? this is what i meant. increase, yeah sorry i missed on decimal position i.e. $431.4 million. But do u know how much loan+aid already been received? we received 3 installments of 4 billion $ from IMF+world bank, and around 1 billion $ from US aid. try this

so....... dont forget we are havin a war here. it costs us a total of $10bn per year. and remember we are in this war not because of zardari but musharraf and musharraf alone.

>> you are not in touch to political news, if you were then you wont be saying that. previously the discussion was on lower prices, even less then what cost comes on pakistani sui gas. even shaukat tareen mention number of times that we will do agreement on lower prices, but when zardari went to iran we had agreement with iran on higher prices.

sir ji may be u r too much in touch with political news but less with economical. we are expected to face gas loadsheddin by 2012 if gov doesnt do anything. if iran is not willin to lower prices then again we have got no option. and as i mentioned earlier we will only be using this gas for electricity generation and not for household consumption. this means we will be saving $1bn every year by importing less of oil used for power generation.

>>> yeah on what rate? have you checked the rate with IPPs? IPPs are giving around 7 rupees/unit, how much you per unit bill you receive? this is called subsidy, which pak government is paying to wapda from 13 yrs, just because of previous agreements of Zardari with IPPs.

and wat makes u think importing electricity from china will not cost the same. we will have to first spend a lot to develop the infrastructure. only solution is to build dams but everytime gov says something provinces step fwd and stop the gov for makin such a move. so we cant blame zardari for this as well.

>> support politicians on what cost? try to monitor Fazul-ur-rehman's assets.

i said that gov managed to gather enough political support for this military operation. i have got no clue of wat u r on about.

>> lolxx.. i think you have forgotten the pressure of the people of pakistan & army on him during this crisis, he has learned his learn

u didnt understand me. i said that after all that crisis he has become more mature. he has been avoidin confrontation. he has appointed all those as judges who were recommended by CJ. which is gud. he could have rejected it as well. that is in his powers and not something illegal.

>> some guts to face shame in face of the world? do u remember why FM was kicked out?


FM? yes 'some guts to face shame'. after all we did support militants; didnt we?
 
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i am not in mood of Behas.. but just tell me how much foregin reservers were there when PPP government join the cabinet i.e. 18 Billion $$. Also how much (import)Dues were present (none). How much loan were taken by pakistan? (none). What was the situation in stock exchange 16k. yes there was some dues towards IPPs but Wapda paid around 95 billion rupee profit that yr. still just after 8 months stock exchange crashed, government spending increase, and banking start crying for liquidity, which were taken by government. foregin reserve went down to 8 billion$$, pak ruppee fall... everything become worst!! while government earned billions on POL during same tenour. Government taxes increased, which means more income!! I just know that, if no political party were then then it must be better situation then today. I know, shaukat aziz was corrupt same as ch brothers, but still much lesser corrupt then the corrupt government, who even don't know how they can solve their problem. Made whole nation dependent again on IMF(previously PPP was also responsible for this), US Aid and other begging activities.

I just know "by loan, or begging no one can achieve improvement, but those people who beg,become habbitual beggers in future".

Just for your information, when tajikistan gas pipeline was in que, iran offer same rate as tajikistan (in tenor of Musharaf), and government started to consider this option. which acknowledged by shaukat tareen number of times BUT when zardari went to iran, the gas pipeline process did started but on higher prices.

Also, if you are talking infrastructure requirement then for your information if new IPP, dam or some other power plant joins the Wapda it requires same improvement in infrastructure, which wapda is doing around the pakistan.
 
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i am not in mood of Behas.. but just tell me how much foregin reservers were there when PPP government join the cabinet i.e. 18 Billion $$. Also how much (import)Dues were present (none). How much loan were taken by pakistan? (none). What was the situation in stock exchange 16k. yes there was some dues towards IPPs but Wapda paid around 95 billion rupee profit that yr. still just after 8 months stock exchange crashed, government spending increase, and banking start crying for liquidity, which were taken by government. foregin reserve went down to 8 billion$$, pak ruppee fall... everything become worst!! while government earned billions on POL during same tenour. Government taxes increased, which means more income!! I just know that, if no political party were then then it must be better situation then today. I know, shaukat aziz was corrupt same as ch brothers, but still much lesser corrupt then the corrupt government, who even don't know how they can solve their problem. Made whole nation dependent again on IMF(previously PPP was also responsible for this), US Aid and other begging activities.

I just know "by loan, or begging no one can achieve improvement, but those people who beg,become habbitual beggers in future".

Just for your information, when tajikistan gas pipeline was in que, iran offer same rate as tajikistan (in tenor of Musharaf), and government started to consider this option. which acknowledged by shaukat tareen number of times BUT when zardari went to iran, the gas pipeline process did started but on higher prices.

Also, if you are talking infrastructure requirement then for your information if new IPP, dam or some other power plant joins the Wapda it requires same improvement in infrastructure, which wapda is doing around the pakistan.

u havent taken into account recession. on top of that musharraf regime hardly added anything to the power grid. oil doubled not bec of zardari. weat prices went up not bec of zardari. there was not weat in pakistan bec musharraf exported it all. all this talibans mess wasnt created by zardari. all this mess was bec of external factors and therfore u cant simply blame present gov for this.

im also against this loan thing. but u have to keep in ur mind that no country was willin to give us any aid. on top of that we had a war goin on.

that tajikistan pipeline project is still on. but again y dont u tell me that would it have been possible to bring that gas to pakistan in next 3 yrs? no way. we are in urgent need of gas. and iran is the closest place where we can get it. currently we havent even got enough to run the power stations at their full potential. and again iranian gas will only be used for power generation and therefore is economical. we will save $1bn every year. so wats wrong with it?

about wapda thing we know how efficient our departments are. we cant even make a gud road in our northern area without the help of chinease and you are talkin about power infrastrucutre.
 
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I gues Zardari had no choice but to get his act toghether , Since he got married to BB when PPP in opposition this guy goes to jail straight . I mean he could have fled the country like many wellknown he is rich every thing is possible if one has got the dosh but he never did, Instead he stayed in jail , he has learned enough lessons and dealth with the worst. He is doing an ok job so far , present govt inhereted all this mess what we have now due to silly policies of previous dictatorships and i will prefer him instead of men in uniform running our afairs.
 
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^^true.

just look at the whole situation in last one year.
1- americans send troops within pakistan. zardari took a stand
2- mumbai attack and again he didnt let things go haywire
3- swat situation. and he managed to gather enough political support for the military operation.
4- IDPs. again he didnt let things go out of control.
5- economic crisis. atleast we are out of the risk of gion bankrupt.
6- american aid. he managed to get rid of all the conditions
7- today PM gilani raised balochistan issue with indian PM which is again a big thing.

all these were major challanges which his gov has been successful in dealing with. and also remember its only been one year since this new gov came to power. not an ideal year which any new gov would expect.
though its ok to criticise but we should also appreciate the gud things.
 
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oh i thought Ajpirzada met with Zardari himself :lol:
 
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^^it would have then made more sense me tryin to support him.... lol
 
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I don't know i am writing farsi or what? OK give me answers of these things.

1. Are we getting gas expensive from what Iran offered in 2007 or not?

2. If you are comparing power generation with oil then we are saving, but does it is anywhere closer to the coal we have in Baluchistan?

3. I never pointed at Wheat, but my points are Cooking oil, cosmetics, vegetables, fruits, other unitlity stuff, in whole world prices of these things came down, but in pakistan it still went up from 100% - 30%, local crops went up due to oil/diesel prices, while international due to extra taxes on import, some new introduction of heads in corrupt (like government announced cooking oil price from 70-85, but didn't implement due to some MPAs supporting high prices, similarly cement & other stuffs), and of-course oil prices. Are you agree with this statement? Ps: i always give wheat credit to Musharaf

4. ok if i agree we went into fight, can you tell me when fight started and when pakistan started to begging for loan thing with IMF? you will get the answer, on the top... new government increase the salaries of MPAs and their sectaries, ministers went to 61 (which is even higher then US, who is around 10+ times larger then pakistan), President house and pm house expenses reaches to 1.5 million and 1 million/day respectively, and many people hiered in President house (around 500+ people sitting in President house now), don't know what the hell they are doing.

5. Wapda is installing new lines, improving infrastructure etc (this is the fact, and i have my house owner in wapda, my uncle in wapda, two cousins in power, and also read newspaper, & experience things around me), while adding single IPP or power generation plant or dam or something else, you need grid stations, new communication lines, and many otherstuff, while importing electricity from china had same requirements. Just required a bit longer communication lines not anyother thing. On the top, they were give much cheaper electricity then these IPP, which would help wapda any way in the end. & lastly the consumer!!
 
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1: oil prices went up in 2008 and therefore terms and condition of a contract being studied in 2007 changed. no one expacting oil prices to go up by this much.

2: for that u first need to extract coal deposits and neither you nor do i know if it will economical or not by the time they come out. also it will take us long time to first develop the infrastructure then invite firms to start mining and then finally set up coal power plants. on top of this so far we havent even managed to decide under whose control coal deposits in sindh will be so forget about balochistan where there are already too many issues of resource distribution.

3: when oil and weat prices go up then how can you expect other prices to not change. electricity prices have also been goin up bec gov has withdrawn subsidy rather is in the process of withdrawin subsity. y didnt weat prices come down when they decrease in world market? bec gov didnt allow it to. prices were fixed at 900+ per 40 kg to benefit farmers. and that is the reason why we produced 2 million tonnes more of weat this year. remember 70% of our population is in villages and therefore keepin price high will help in reducin poverty. indian gov didnt do this and therefore more than 5000 farmers commited suicide coz they had to sell it in loss.

4: fight started in 2005 but recession came with the comin of PPP gov. so ground situation changed.
i dont know about the total daily expanses of PM and Presidnet house but i do agree with u that we have got too many ministries.

5: so u r sayin its less expansive to lay a power line in northern area of pakistan? how can u say gov did not consider that option and if there was any such offer being made. i never came accross any such possible deal.
 
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