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McChrystal's Unclassified Afghan Assessment

The thing that is confusing for me is that it took 300 US special forces to oust the Talib regime - but of course just as Cortez had the support of the Aztecs adverseries, the US had NA, why is the NA not being forth coming against the Talib? What's going on? what's the calculation?
 
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The thing that is confusing for me is that it took 300 US special forces to oust the Talib regime - but of course just as Cortez had the support of the Aztecs adverseries, the US had NA, why is the NA not being forth coming against the Talib? What's going on? what's the calculation?

The NA is now a rusted old corrupt piece of junk. If the Americans were to leave soon, they would be quickly routed from power by the more organized and determined Taliban :guns:. Then why bother placing bets on these ********. The old guard of NA would have to step down and the organization would have to undergo some massive reorganization in order to fight away the Talibs. The best option for the lower rank personnel would be to join with the Pastuns in the Afghan army and have some more national spirit to trump ethnic rivalries.
 
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Sands of time


Could you offer some information for us to be able to concur that the NA should now be thought of as "has been"? Has it's leadership "disappeared"?? Have it's arms evaporated?? Has it's field commanders passed away??

Has Fahim's private militia ceased to exist? Is Atta Mohammad history? Is the Uzbek Russian, Indian and Iranian supply channel closed??

To my thinking the answers to all these is "no" - and so why are they not being used by the US - Why American blood? Treasure? America just prints that paper, but Blood??
 
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Hi,

You see---for america---it was a tragedy that Donald Rumsfeld was the sec def---an absolutely incompetent man as a sec def----this man only got govt position because of his friends who got elected to the white house----other than that he brought nothing to the table---.

The day when america blundered into afghanistan riding on the back of minority no alliance warriors to take over afghanistan and left it to a thrid party to do its work---that day was the begining of the ultimate disaster that is afghanistan today.

3000 americans were killed in america---twin towers---it became the responsibility of american troops and soldiers to avenge the death of the murders in cold blood of their country men---it was the duty and moral obligation for the american soldier to confront the al qaeda enemy and take him to task----.

It should have the responsibility of the american millitary to make sure that happened----but strangely and totally out of character---they " OUT SOURCED " this war to a third party----that third party was the very reason for the creation of al-qaeda.

Northern alliance and the atrocities that they committed in the 90's was the very reason that taliban came into being---the americans being the clueless ---- that they were, committed the ultimate blunder.

Today---the u s has nowhere to go---it has no comprehension of what the problem is and it has absolutely no clue what its part has been in this be-fuddled anarchy and mayhem. It is like the brain that has stopped to function---no planning---no appropriate action plan----the only thing that is happening is, is reactionary---like a knee jerk reaction----the taliban attack this place---the americans will retaliate---.

There is no systematic appraoch to resolve the issue----there is only one thing and only one thing the american millitary can do---I know they can take me out easily---but right now it is time for them to put their tail between their legs and run home-----and next time when a conflicts starts anywhere else in the world and the U S interests are at stake----donot listen to the politicians as to how manimal troops you need to get the job done----somebody give some TESTOSTERONE shots to american generals to stand upto to their politicians just like Norman Schwarzkopf did when he demaned over 1/2 million troops tro take out the most 3rd rated army of the world and tell them minimal means nothing---it is the maximus they are interested in.

And last but not least----stop being india's lap boy in afghanistan.
 
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Sands of time


Could you offer some information for us to be able to concur that the NA should now be thought of as "has been"? Has it's leadership "disappeared"?? Have it's arms evaporated?? Has it's field commanders passed away??

Has Fahim's private militia ceased to exist? Is Atta Mohammad history? Is the Uzbek Russian, Indian and Iranian supply channel closed??

To my thinking the answers to all these is "no" - and so why are they not being used by the US - Why American blood? Treasure? America just prints that paper, but Blood??
Perhaps using exclusively or primarily the NA would come across as too much of a choice of the 'non-Pashtun' to combat the largely 'Pashtun' insurgents, and perhaps really push the insurgency into nationalist mode and precipitate ethnic tensions that would cause multiple other issues.

Also end any semblance of a 'balanced' approach to resolving Afghanistan from the perspective of the regional actors with a stake in the future of Afghanistan, especially Pakistan.

However, if I am not mistaken, doesn't the ANA have a disproportionate amount of non-Pashtun any way?
 
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Mastan

I don't think there is much to argue against in your post - but what is to be done now - If indeed the US withdraws/evacuates, it will leave Pakistan is a really bad shape, both sides of the Durand line in insurrection - for my money the US should stay till the job of eliminating Al-Qaeeda and Talib leadershp to the mid-level is completed -- but I genuinely feel for the loss of American blood while the Afghan take a back seat, actually I am pretty sure the Talib will switch to greater attacks in the urban centers that the US COIN proposes to protect - either way, it's more Americans killed - now whatever their politics and motivation, these are someone's son or daughter doing their sworn duty - and I don't understand why they should continue without the Afghan taking responsibility.

Whatever the NA, whatever it's crimes, and lets face facts in this bathhouse we are all naked, I just cannot get my head around the idea that it is the American at the point and not the Afghan.
 
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Hi Muse,

Nobody doubts that the americans had good things in mind for afghanistan----but everybody challenges their approach towards the start of the invasion---a regular millitary does not hand over its job to redeem the honour of its nation to the mercenaries---and those mercenaries that are at daggers drawn against the opponents.

How disgusting is the man Rumsfeld is---there is no limit to it---that he took away that right from the men of the american armed forces and gave it to the thugs and thieves and murderers of NA---right of revenge.

The moment the americans decided and raised the slogan " vengeance is mine "----we said ok---it is rightfully yours---your men have died in an unprovoked attack---so do your thing----but then they out sourced this vengeance to NA---the death do us part enemy of taliban---and the world saw the most horrendous atrocites being committed by the NA on th elocal populace. American planes bombing civilians indescretely---american pilots dropping their load of weapons on any hint of a target so that they don't have to land with their weapons load.

The americans went to this war---WITH HATE IN THEIR HEARTS AND NO RESPECT OR FEAR FOR THE ENEMY--- a cardinal sin for any millitary---in hate you lose respect of your enemies strength and lose your focus and identity and just become like one of them---in respect and no fear of the enemy---you really start believing in your propaganda in how strong and brave you are and weak and coward the enemy is----when that happened the americans forgot the indesputable variable---the battle terrain---whereas the afghanis could live on mountain tops and move around with ease----THE AMERICANS FOUND OUT=----THAT THEIR TROOPS WERE TOO FAT---TOO OVERWEIGHT TO FIGHT IN THAT TERRAIN AND TOO MUCH OUT OF TOUCH WHAT HIGH ALTITUDE WARFARE REALLY WAS.

Even though they had mountain training schools in the u s---but they were basically mountaion climbing schools no where close to the training that the indian or pakistani troops had for their high altitude war.

The american paid no heed to what the russian had said or what the british had wrote down in history---nobody bothered to believe what Kipling wrote---

" When you're wounded in afghanistan plain,
and the women come out to cut what remains,
just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier ".

Muse---you sympathise with the dead americam soldiers---my friend---you ought to really sympathise with the wounded who didnot die---.

If the american media is alowed to start showing the pictures of the wounded coming back from afghanistan and iraq----the whole of the u s will be in an uproar.

With new techniques and technology---they are able to save so many of the wounded who would have otherwise died in the battle field---so many people with such horrendous war wounds----may their Lord have mercy on their living souls.

America---is basically doomed in afghanistan---it has left no out let for it to escape with any kind of dignity and honour---they went against THE LAWS OF NATURE----ie---the power of the majority---they wanted to re-invent the wheel---they wheel is stuck around their neck and won't come off.

Their only source of any salvation---PAKISTAN--- they have alienated the populace with their bad policies.
 
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The best way to deal with insurgents remains to kill them

Smarter approach would be to cultivate and promote leadership rivalries and let them kill each other. This would also minimize civilian casualties and collateral damage.

SAUDIARABIAN support was thrown into battle ground.

Talk about letting the fox into the chicken coop!

if USA gives pakistan a major role to play on the grounds & behind the shadows, it will going to work for sure!

The prime US objective in Afghanistan is to establish an Indian client state. This is to build India into a regional power to contain Pakistan and counter China.

The US had no intention in 2001 of accepting the Taliban offer to try Bin Laden in a neutral country. The purpose of this war has always been to replace the pro-Pakistan Taliban with an Indian puppet government. Throughout this conflict, the main US policymakers for Afghanistan, from Khalilzad to Reidel, have all been rabidly anti-Pakistan and ardently pro-India. That is also why the pro-India Northern Alliance has been allowed to dominate certain parts of the Afghan government.

The problem for the US came when the Indian puppet dork Karzai turned out to be so congenitally inept and corrupt that he hasn't been able to cement his hold on the people. Consequently, India is now ramping up the soft approach, with significantly increased development aid. Their indirect attempt at control through their puppet has failed, so a more direct approach is now needed.
 
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ANALYSIS: Preparing to beat a retreat? —Najmuddin A Shaikh

We should note that the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS), the influential think tank at which President Zardari spoke last Friday, has said in its annual review that “Pakistan remained the biggest source of instability for Afghanistan”

The publication in the Washington Post of a redacted version of General Stanley McChrystal’s report on the situation in Afghanistan and the strategy he proposes the US and NATO should now follow contained little that had not been known earlier. Its publication has however triggered a fresh debate and fresh revelations on the differences within the inner circles of the Obama administration on what needs to be done next.

McChrystal has meanwhile been told in various ways that he should hold off on sending his recommendations on the additional troops he would need to be able to implement the strategy he proposes until President Obama and his national security team have determined what strategy they intend to follow.

The position of the US military seems clear. Chairman US Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen told Congress probably at the cost of displeasing leading members of the Obama administration that “a properly resourced counterinsurgency probably means more forces” and that “it’s very clear to me that we will need more resources.”

General David Petraeus, speaking in London, conceded that the Taliban had expanded their influence maintaining that “they benefit from reasonable freedom of movement in border areas, funding their activities from the narcotics industry and donations”. Acknowledging that the challenges in Afghanistan are significant, he maintained that the stakes are also high, and while the situation unquestionably is serious, “the mission is still do-able”. Implicit was the fact that more resources would be needed.

His sentiments were echoed by the new chief of the British Army, Gen Richards, who maintained that “defeat for allied forces in Afghanistan would have an ‘intoxicating impact’ on extremists around the world” and that defeat could have an ‘alienating and potentially catalytic effect” on millions of Afghans.

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates too, in most of his cautiously worded statements, seemed to endorse the need for more troops in Afghanistan even while maintaining that McChrystal’s review was a “pre-decisional” recommendation and that several meetings would be summoned by the President and several assessments would have to be completed before a final decision was made.

On the political front however the situation is very far from accepting the logic of the military leaders. The Republicans for the most part are supportive of a strategy that would have the US stay the course in Afghanistan but they are now insistent that Obama articulate his policy clearly and have McChrystal appear before Congress to defend it. The Democrats on the other hand offer little support for any additional troop deployments even while being supportive of the proposals for expanding the Afghan security forces. Significantly Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the house has made it clear that in her view there was not a “great deal of support for sending more troops to Afghanistan in the country or in the Congress.”

Similarly Rep John Murtha, chairman of the House Appropriations Committee’s defence sub-panel, and Michigan Sen Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, have both made clear their opposition to any additional troop deployment.

All this is being driven at least in part by public opinion polls that show a majority of Americans being opposed to any additional troops being sent to Afghanistan. Commentaries by leading figures of the security community, questioning the logic of an additional effort in Afghanistan where the election has turned out to be a fiasco and which in any case no longer plays host to Al Qaeda have further heightened the disquiet.

It seems that Vice President Biden’s suggestion that the main point of effort should now be Pakistan appears to be gaining traction. Newspaper reports suggest that Biden has argued that some thirty dollars are being spent in Afghanistan for every dollar spent in Pakistan and yet it is from Pakistan that Al Qaeda operates and it is in Pakistan-based camps that potential terrorists receive their training.

His proposal apparently is that while there be a holding operation in Afghanistan with the troops already present there, more political, diplomatic and monetary measures be deployed to persuade Pakistan to eliminate the extremists and with them the Al Qaeda safe havens in the tribal areas.

In his speech at the UN General Assembly on Wednesday, President Obama reiterated his oft stated position that “We have set a clear and focused goal: to work with all members of this body to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat Al Qaeda and its extremist allies” and that “We will permit no safe haven for Al Qaeda to launch attacks from Afghanistan or any other nation. We will stand by our friends on the front lines, as we and many nations will do in pledging support for the Pakistani people tomorrow”.

Significantly he said nothing further about Afghanistan beyond the assertion that “In Afghanistan and Pakistan, we and many nations here are helping these governments develop the capacity to take the lead in this effort, (of disrupting, dismantling and defeating the Al Qaeda) while working to advance opportunity and security for their people”.

It is too early to say that a firm policy direction has been set but it is clear that every one is agreed on the need to build the Afghan security forces (240,000 for the Afghan National Army and 160,000 for the Afghan national police). It is also clear that wildly optimistic estimates are being made about how quickly such a force can be raised and trained. It is clear that little or no attention will be paid in this process to ensuring that an ethnic balance is maintained to ensure that the Afghan Army is truly national and continues to enjoy the respect it currently has among the Afghan people.

It is clear also that with the present troop levels or with additional troops, NATO forces will be concentrated in the population centres and the sparsely populated remote areas bordering Pakistan will be left at the mercy of the Taliban. It follows that Pakistan’s current complaints about the absence of border check posts on the Afghan side to prevent infiltration will multiply but paradoxically this will lead to a greater demand for Pakistan to do more to eliminate the sanctuaries that the Afghan Taliban enjoy particularly along Afghanistan’s eastern border with Pakistan.

We should note that the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS), the influential think tank at which President Zardari spoke last Friday, has said in its annual review that “Pakistan remained the biggest source of instability for Afghanistan.”

We should note also that in a recent interview to Free Internet Press, Ambassador Patterson talked of the differences between Pakistan and the US on the treatment accorded to various groups of Afghan Taliban stating that “Where we differ, of course, is the treatment of the groups who are attacking our troops in Afghanistan. And that comes down to Haqqani and Gul Bahadur and Nazir, to a lesser extent Hekmatyar...”

She identified the Haqqani group as the biggest threat in Afghanistan, which has “shown the ability to reach all the way to Kabul with these huge attacks, which not only kill loads of people but are also politically destabilising.” She conceded that “the Pakistanis don’t have the capacity to go after some of these groups” and that Siraj Haqqani controls vast swathes of territory in North Waziristan where he has been implanted for many years. While she said that Pakistan has taken more actions against these groups than was generally known, the end picture that emerged from the interview was that Americans believe that Pakistan is still playing footsie with the Afghan Taliban.

Is this really our policy? Do we understand what the creation of a largely Tajik 240,000 strong Afghan National Army will mean for our security calculus or what effect the continued unrest in Afghanistan will have on our efforts to cleanse our body politic of the pernicious Taliban influence to which it has been subject for the last 15 years?

The writer is a former foreign secretary



last para above - very ominous prediction!
 
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Its going to take 100 years for America to understand that they are fighting hate against them with bullets, bombs, arrogance and even more hatred. Its like one F**king to save her Virg*nity. US and Coalition forces have been defeated already but generals are hopeful they can try "something different", which of course they dont know themselves, but that might result in Victory for them. In the name of security for Afghans, Americans kill 1 Terrorist and 15 innocent civilians as collateral damage. If this is the security they are here to offer, Afghans were better off in the rule of Taliban.

According to Genral Hameed Gul, America is living its final year of war in Afghanistan. I would love to see USA receiving a slap in Afghanistan which is harder, louder and more prominent than they had received in Vietnam and that will be well deserved.
 
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Mastan

It's not so much about American dead or wounded, it's that these people never really understood whats what there - they brought into an idiot line about democracy and all that rubbish - but the ordinary soldier, man or woman, what is their fault? none, they are doing what they have sworn as duty to do - and I do feel for that, I do sympathize with those parents - is their love for their flesh and blood any less than that which we feel for ours? no, so in that sense, I do feel a tragedy for them and of course I also think there is danger for Pakistan if this mission fails. Look below and see that Musharraf agrees with what we have pointed out on this forum for long with regard to Nawaz and the backing he has got from you know where


Danger for Pakistan, India if US quits Afghanistan: Musharraf

* Washington must immediately send more troops to Afghanistan, be ready for casualties
* Calls Nawaz ‘closet Taliban’, says PML-N chief never speaks against terrorism, extremism

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Pakistan and India will face great danger from Al Qaeda if the United States pulls out of Afghanistan, former president Pervez Musharraf said on Thursday.

In an exclusive interview with ABC News, Musharraf said a US pullout would result in an unstable Afghanistan.

“The country [Afghanistan] will become the centre of all Al Qaeda sanctuaries and consequently could extend its influence into Pakistan and possibly even India,” Musharraf said.

Troops: To a question on the US consideration of sending more troops to Afghanistan, he said US President Obama should have complied with Gen Stanley McChyrstal’s recommendation “yesterday”. “I think you should take it immediately. You should have taken it yesterday,” Musharraf said.

Musharraf said he “absolutely” believed there needed to be more troops in Afghanistan. But he said sending more troops could mean an increase in casualties, something the US should be prepared for.

“We must avoid casualties, as much as possible. But when soldiers move and armies act, casualties will be there, and we should accept casualties,” he said.

He said the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan should be mined, a proposition he termed “drastic”.

“As far as I’m concerned, we should mine it so that people can’t go across,” Musharraf said.

He called PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif “abrasive” and confrontational.

“He has never been on good terms with any president of Pakistan,” he said, adding that Nawaz was a “closet Taliban”.

“Even on Pakistan Television these days, talk shows are going on saying that he has met Osama Bin Laden five times – five times before 9/11 – and he has been financed by Osama,” Musharraf said. “Then the other element is that he never speaks against terrorism and extremism
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Hi Muse,

You are right about the american soldiers---they deserved better from their leaders, politicians and generals---8 years ia a long long time to die in a hell hole and tragically there is no end in sight.

Musharraf is right about Nawaz being a closet taliban---I believe that comment would have sealed Nawaz'z fate for a while.

In the interview---Musharraf is letting them have it with both the barrels.
 
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NZ likely to raise Afghanistan troops level​


Prime Minister John Key gave a strong signal Monday that New Zealand likely will increase its troop levels in Afghanistan — with a decision on any fresh commitment by mid-August. He also restated New Zealand’s desire for an “exit strategy” for its troops, with its 140-member provincial reconstruction team currently committed until September 2010. In recent months, the United States has repeatedly asked New Zealand to raise its troop levels and specifically asked for its elite strategic air service commandos to return for a fourth tour of duty. The commandos were last there in 2006 as part of the U.S.-led bid to fight hard-line Islamist insurgents. “If the world doesn’t get on top of the situation in Afghanistan, the counterfactual is that it will become a bigger hotbed for global terrorism,” Key said. “If you lose control of Afghanistan, you are leaving that country and potentially others exposed as a breeding ground for global terrorism. I can’t see how that’s in New Zealand’s best interests,” he told reporters. Afghanistan was “increasingly unstable and allied forces there are under real pressure. The Taliban is gaining greater control of area in Afghanistan,” Key said. Key said his “long term preference” was to leave Afghanistan, noting the cost of New Zealand’s deployment in Bamiyan soaks up a lot of resources. “We would like to have an exit strategy from Afghanistan — that’s our driving motivation. We do not long-term want to be there,” he said, restating his position of recent months. “The primary factor is whether we think any change in the composition of our commitment to Afghanistan will make a difference to the situation there ... to the outcome of the war, and whether we’d be successful,” he said. While New Zealand wants to give assistance where it will make a difference, “I’m not attracted to the idea of training the Afghan national army or the Afghan National police force,” he said, noting the level of danger involved in such activity.​


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NZ more troops
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Hi Muse,
You are right about the american soldiers---they deserved better from their leaders, politicians and generals---8 years ia a long long time to die in a hell hole and tragically there is no end in sight.

That is what I have been saying in all the forums, conversations etc. etc. . I have friends whose relatives are in the Army, sons, husbands, uncles, fathers....... It is very easy to say..... "we will fight for a hundred years.....". But for God's sake, step out of your armchairs and go fight yourselves sometime. When your own relatives are at danger, then, you wont be so readily giving out other people's lives


Hi Muse,
Musharraf is right about Nawaz being a closet taliban---I believe that comment would have sealed Nawaz'z fate for a while.

In the interview---Musharraf is letting them have it with both the barrels.

He is just feeling sore...... it is always Nawaz Nawaz, Nawaz. I ask you this, ponder over the following points and tell me who started them:
  • 1) Martial Law 1999
  • 2) November 3 extra constitutional actions
  • 3) Agreements that allow Drone attacks over our territory
  • 4) holding on to seats of the President, Chief Executive, COAS for so many years
  • 5) Major decisions decided one sidedly without even seeing the face of the parliament.

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Musharraf, like the leadership, or majority of it thereof, of parties like, PML-Q, PPP, PML-N etc. etc.. do not work for Pakistan, they work for themselves, I have respect only for a leader if he is working under the Law, for democracy, Pakistan, and its people.

Sadly, there are not many that deserve to be called "Leaders"
 
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Righteous

I think you are too harsh on Musharraf - we should keep context in mind when we review those decisions. The way in which present these decisions does not acount for context - Musharraf had publically advised "don't destabilize Pakistan, you'll regret it" - this caution was delivered publically and privately to those who bought into the line that the Pakistan army is untrustworthy and Musharraf doubly so and that "democratic" forces can deliver -- in the end, it is Pakistan army that is delivering while so called "democratic" forces race to garner credit for the actions of the army.

Regardless, Musharraf remains the most popular, the most trustworthy leader of Pakistan - in his retirement from office, it is clear he will never retire from the job of defending and supporting Pakistan - I think by any measure this wins him the gratitude of thinking Pakistanis.
 
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I think it would be an understatement to say that I'm no big fan of Nawaz Sharif but I don't think he has met OBL 5 times while in office. I don’t think it was appropriate for our boy Musharraf to say that because I’ll be willing to bet some money that tomorrow the Times of India is going to publish an article about another ‘revelation’ saying that the Pakistani Prime Minister was in with Al-Qaeda and all. Its the sort of thing I would expect your average Pakistani politician would say to malign a rival, not Musharraf. Nawaz not speaking out against terrorists and other anti-Pakistani outfits is a legitimate argument though.
 
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