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Make-in-India: Plan to develop 5th-generation fighter aircraft

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NEW DELHI: India plans to kick-off its own fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) development project this year to build on the expertise gained in the long developmental saga of the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft.

Top defence sources on Wednesday said the preliminary design stage of the futuristic fighter called the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA), with collaboration among IAF, DRDO and Aeronautical Development Agency, is now "virtually" over.

"Once the project definition and feasibility is completed in the next few months, the defence ministry will go to the cabinet committee on security for approval. It will require Rs 4,000-5,000 crore for the initial design and development phase," said a source.

The aim is to fly the first twin-engine AMCA prototype by 2023-2024, which will be around the time deliveries of Tejas Mark-II fighters will be underway. IAF is slated to get its first Tejas Mark-I in March this year, over 30 years after the LCA project was first approved in August 1983. But the Tejas Mark-II jets, with more powerful engines, will start to come only by 2021-2022, as was first reported by TOI.

"After Tejas-II, we have to move ahead to a fifth-generation-plus AMCA. Basic design work of AMCA as well as presentations by five to six global aero-engine manufacturers is over. Simulation modelling is also in the works," said the source.

India, of course, is also trying to sort out its differences with Russia over their proposed joint development of the Indian "perspective multi-role fighter" based on the latter's under-development FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA.

45802840.cms


India, in fact, had told Russia it cannot wait till 2024-2025 to begin inducting 127 of these single-seat fighters, which will entail an overall expenditure of around $25 billion. But India also wants its own home-grown AMCA project in the long-run for strategic and economic reasons.

A swing-role FGFA basically combines advanced stealth, supercruise (capability to achieve supersonic cruise speeds without use of afterburners), super-maneuverability, data fusion and multi-sensor integration on a single fighter.

But the 20-year long development of the American F/A-22 "Raptor", the only fully-operational FGFA in the world today, has shown that such a project is an extremely complex and costly affair.

The US shut down the production of Raptors in 2012 after inducting 188 of them at an overall cost of $67 billion due to huge costs, technical glitches and time overruns. The US is now finally moving towards operationalizing a more advanced FGFA, the F-35 "Lightning-II" joint strike fighter. With the project yet to overcome all technical and software glitches, the overall cost for the planned induction of almost 2,500 such fighters stands at around $400 billion.

Make-in-India: Plan to develop 5th-generation fighter aircraft - The Times of India
 
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NEW DELHI: India plans to kick-off its own fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) development project this year to build on the expertise gained in the long developmental saga of the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft.

Top defence sources on Wednesday said the preliminary design stage of the futuristic fighter called the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA), with collaboration among IAF, DRDO and Aeronautical Development Agency, is now "virtually" over.

"Once the project definition and feasibility is completed in the next few months, the defence ministry will go to the cabinet committee on security for approval. It will require Rs 4,000-5,000 crore for the initial design and development phase," said a source.

The aim is to fly the first twin-engine AMCA prototype by 2023-2024, which will be around the time deliveries of Tejas Mark-II fighters will be underway. IAF is slated to get its first Tejas Mark-I in March this year, over 30 years after the LCA project was first approved in August 1983. But the Tejas Mark-II jets, with more powerful engines, will start to come only by 2021-2022, as was first reported by TOI.

"After Tejas-II, we have to move ahead to a fifth-generation-plus AMCA. Basic design work of AMCA as well as presentations by five to six global aero-engine manufacturers is over. Simulation modelling is also in the works," said the source.

India, of course, is also trying to sort out its differences with Russia over their proposed joint development of the Indian "perspective multi-role fighter" based on the latter's under-development FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA.

45802840.cms


India, in fact, had told Russia it cannot wait till 2024-2025 to begin inducting 127 of these single-seat fighters, which will entail an overall expenditure of around $25 billion. But India also wants its own home-grown AMCA project in the long-run for strategic and economic reasons.

A swing-role FGFA basically combines advanced stealth, supercruise (capability to achieve supersonic cruise speeds without use of afterburners), super-maneuverability, data fusion and multi-sensor integration on a single fighter.

But the 20-year long development of the American F/A-22 "Raptor", the only fully-operational FGFA in the world today, has shown that such a project is an extremely complex and costly affair.

The US shut down the production of Raptors in 2012 after inducting 188 of them at an overall cost of $67 billion due to huge costs, technical glitches and time overruns. The US is now finally moving towards operationalizing a more advanced FGFA, the F-35 "Lightning-II" joint strike fighter. With the project yet to overcome all technical and software glitches, the overall cost for the planned induction of almost 2,500 such fighters stands at around $400 billion.

Make-in-India: Plan to develop 5th-generation fighter aircraft - The Times of India


Should not AMCA fall in " Made in India" category rather than " Make in India " ?
 
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Should not AMCA fall in " Made in India" category rather than " Make in India " ?

for now the our limitations are no Indigenous engine no Indigenous radar no Indigenous standoff weapons no Indigenous air to air missiles only one air to air missile that is Astra produced made by our country if we fail to develop the critical and import that are crucial mainly radar and engine then we are still vulnerable to sanctions so it should be make in India. because it will be same like a license produced aircraft similar to PAKFA
 
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for now the our limitations are no Indigenous engine no Indigenous radar no Indigenous standoff weapons no Indigenous air to air missiles only one air to air missile that is Astra produced made by our country if we fail to develop the critical and import that are crucial mainly radar and engine then we are still vulnerable to sanctions so it should be make in India. because it will be same like a license produced aircraft similar to PAKFA

same applies to tejas ...but then we are still presenting as " made in India " product ....

I guess it is just a matter of semantics ...
 
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same applies to tejas ...but then we are still presenting as " made in India " product ....

I guess it is just a matter of semantics ...

exactly so it will be more feasible to go for PAKFA since both are equivalent to assembling job and we have already invested money in PAKFA project

my point is if we are not going to develop anything critical components like engine and radar and the above mentioned in my post then there is no difference between PAKFA and AMCA as afar as gaining knowledge is concerned because in both the cases we are importing critical components. so if AMCA has to become worthy project then it hase to be make in india rather made in india
 
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The poster forgot about J-20 which enters serial production next year.
 
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exactly so it will be more feasible to go for PAKFA since both are equivalent to assembling job and we have already invested money in PAKFA project

my point is if we are not going to develop anything critical components like engine and radar and the above mentioned in my post then there is no difference between PAKFA and AMCA as afar as gaining knowledge is concerned because in both the cases we are importing critical components. so if AMCA has to become worthy project then it hase to be make in india rather made in india


Then India might as well not make Kolkata class, LCH, IAC1, Dhruv, etc. because they also use important foreign in origin subsystems. Depending on others for the platform will only build other peoples industries in the long run. Having an industry in place to design and develop a new platform alone is a big achievement. Let the others fall in place.

Look at all the crap India has done with the Dhruv platform. That's India's own, FGFA, you'll always have to go through the Russians in some way. After all the freshco Russians have pulled with T90, ships, etc. You would think this is a priority.
 
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Maybe India should work together with other upstarts such as s Korea, turkey or Iran to build a 5th gen fighter. Each country can contribute some components.
 
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Should not AMCA fall in " Made in India" category rather than " Make in India " ?

There's nothing that's 'made' right now except for the design and calculations in ADA's computers. So unless they actually get a prototype out, it won't be made. :D
 
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5th-generation fighter aircraft
9 Jan, 2015
Rajat Pandit, TNN

India plans to kick-off its own fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) development project this year to build on the expertise gained in the long developmental saga of the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft.

The aim is to fly the first twin-engine AMCA prototype by 2023-2024, which will be around the time deliveries of Tejas Mark-II fighters will be underway.
5th-generation-fighter-aircraft.jpg



Tejas Mark-I
9 Jan, 2015
IAF is slated to get its first Tejas Mark-I in March this year, over 30 years after the LCA project was first approved in August 1983.

But the Tejas Mark-II jets, with more powerful engines, will start to come only by 2021-2022, as was first reported by TOI.
tejas-mark-i.jpg


Features of 5th gen fighters
9 Jan, 2015
Fifth generation fighters are multi-role or swing-role but also incorporate advanced stealth technology, composite materials, supercruise (achieve supersonic cruise speeds without use of afterburners), thrust-vectoring & multi-sensor integrated avionics.

In pic: F/A-22 Raptor
features-of-5th-gen-fighters.jpg


Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA
9 Jan, 2015
The only fully operational fifth-generation fighter at present is the American F/A-22 Raptor, developed for $28 billion, with each fighter costing $350-400 million extra.

Two FGFA in pipeline are America's F-35 Lightning-II Joint Strike Fighter & Russian Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA.

In pic: Russian Sukhoi T-50
sukhoi-t-50-or-pak-fa.jpg

Trying to get Sukhoi T-50 from Russia
9 Jan, 2015
India is also trying to sort out its differences with Russia over their proposed joint development of the Indian 'perspective multi-role fighter' based on the latter's under-development FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA.

India, in fact, had told Russia it cannot wait till 2024-2025 to begin inducting 127 of these single-seat fighters, which will entail an overall expenditure of around $25 billion. But India also wants its own home-grown AMCA project in the long-run for strategic and economic reasons.

In pic: Russian Sukhoi T-50
trying-to-get-sukhoi-t-50-from-russia.jpg

Other features of 5th gen fighters
9 Jan, 2015
A swing-role FGFA basically combines advanced stealth, supercruise (capability to achieve supersonic cruise speeds without use of afterburners), super-maneuverability, data fusion and multi-sensor integration on a single fighter.

In pic: Russian Sukhoi T-50
other-features-of-5th-gen-fighters.jpg

F/A-22 Raptor too costly
9 Jan, 2015
But the 20-year long development of the American F/A-22 'Raptor', the only fully-operational FGFA in the world today, has shown that such a project is an extremely complex and costly affair.

The US shut down the production of Raptors in 2012 after inducting 188 of them at an overall cost of $67 billion due to huge costs, technical glitches and time overruns.

In pic: F/A-22 Raptor
a-22-raptor-too-costly.jpg

F-35 Lightning-II
9 Jan, 2015
The US is now finally moving towards operationalizing a more advanced FGFA, the F-35 'Lightning-II' joint strike fighter.

With the project yet to overcome all technical and software glitches, the overall cost for the planned induction of almost 2,500 such fighters stands at around $400 billion.

In pic: F-35 'Lightning-II'
f-35-lightning-ii.jpg

Older fighters
9 Jan, 2015
First generation jet fighters (1940s-1950s) used turbojets for propulsion, instead of earlier piston-driven aircraft (Messerschmitt-Me262, Mystere-IV, MiG-15 etc)

Second generation fighters (1950s-1960s) integrated new technologies, swept or delta wings & guided missiles for BVR (beyond visual range) combat (MiG-21, sukhoi-7, F-104 Starfighter etc)

In pic: MiG-21
older-fighters.jpg

Older fighters
9 Jan, 2015
Third generation fighters (1960s-1970s) inducted improved radars, missiles & avionics (Mirage-III, MiG-25, F-4 Phantom-II etc)

Fourth generation fighters (1970s-1990s) incorporated fly-by-wire controls & multi role capabilities (Mirage-2000, MiG-29, Sukhoi-27, Tornado, F-16 Fighting Falcon etc)

In pic: MiG-29
older-fighters.jpg

 
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4.5 generation fighters
9 Jan, 2015
4.5 generation fighters (1990s onwards) use more advanced avionics & electronics, with some stealth. (Sukhoi-30 MKI, Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16F Desert Falcon, F/A-18 Super Hornet etc)

In pic: Sukhoi-30 MKI, Image by IAF
4-5-generation-fighters.jpg
 
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