'Made in Pakistan', unlike the perception following products are all local made.

[xyxmt]

Try exporting that to the international market.

Dawlance does export to international market

 

[N.Siddiqui]

I regard exports as the litmus test of a hi-tech manufacturing firm.

From their website...

Amidst the various divisions of Descon, “Descon Manufacturing Division” has been offering high-class fabricated equipment for projects within Middle East, Central Asia, Far East and North Africa for the last three decades.

http://www.descon.com/en/engineering-expertise.php

 

[xyxmt]

Turn the task of industrial development over to Army. Initially, there can be a dedicated section in the Army, but over time this branch will have a completely separate induction and career path. They will be subject to Army's strict character building, disciplined training regime. Fraud and malpractice will lead to court martial. The most shining example of industrialization done right is PAF's Thunder project.

I was thinking this guy may be a smart ones, but then you post this and killed it

A civil-mil collaboration, contribution, a nexus is better rather, ideally speaking. Like Pak Army Burraq armored drones are mostly developed in NESCOM, a civilian entity with support from Army. In 2004 the number of people working in NESCOM Pakistan was 30,000, now must be more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Engineering_and_Scientific_Commission

Fully Integrated, Precision Engineering for Demanding Industries

The Precision Engineering Complex (PEC) at PIA manufactures high precision parts for the aerospace industry and a number of other industries

Across the globe, PEC products take to the skies every day. The PEC is a supplier to USA and Europe and serves companies such as General Electric, Airbus Industries and Boeing. Services run the gamut from simple machining jobs to complex shaping using high precision CNC controlled equipment.

PAC Kamra also supplies precision parts to Boeing company USA.

http://www.piac.com.pk/PIA_Business/pia-engineering_pec.asp

http://www.historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5633

so the message to those who wants pakistani companies to produce everything in their factories is that not even boeing makes all the parts for their air planes and import from whoever can produce quality parts at competative prices...in todays global economy its stupid to produce everything inhouse but use products that are competitive to reduce cost of their final product.

 

[CriticalThought]

Dawlance does export to international market

But they don't just take a compressor and randomly weld it into a shell like you want to do.

so the message to those who wants pakistani companies to produce everything in their factories is that not even boeing makes all the parts for their air planes and import from whoever can produce quality parts at competative prices...in todays global economy its stupid to produce everything inhouse but use products that are competitive to reduce cost of their final product.

No one is saying we should produce all nuts and bolts in the country. But we need the balance of trade to be in our favor so we become a net exporter.

From their website...

Amidst the various divisions of Descon, “Descon Manufacturing Division” has been offering high-class fabricated equipment for projects within Middle East, Central Asia, Far East and North Africa for the last three decades.

http://www.descon.com/en/engineering-expertise.php

This is awesome. Given their huge size, they are the ideal company that should be investing in R&D and looking to improve their patent portfolio. I wonder why they don't pay any attention towards this?

 

[N.Siddiqui]

so the message to those who wants pakistani companies to produce everything in their factories is that not even boeing makes all the parts for their air planes and import from whoever can produce quality parts at competative prices...in todays global economy its stupid to produce everything inhouse

I agree with you, there is no such thing as 'car manufacturing' its is always car assembly unit. No need to 'reinvent the wheel'. IBM the computer giant doesn't makes a single computer hardware equipment, what it does is it outsource all its requirement to vendors all over the world, mix and match, assemble it and Voila...the cutting edge computer is ready...

Pakistan is doing fairly good in manufacturing and quite good in engineering service industry...but need to expand and set a new benchmark. Need more investment, it goes without saying.

Also take the example of HMC(heavy mechanical complex) Taxila, it manufactures cement plants, sugar plants all in house and at the same time makes tanks and armored vehicles for Pak Army, and HMC is a under civilian control, i guess. So ideally it should be some collaboration like PAC Kamra collaborating with engineering firms in Pakistan to develop small passenger planes, avionics, and what not. And it goes both ways....but not in favor of Army calling the shots...they can bring in their administration skills in some segments.

 

[ChennaiDude]

But we are working hard to being able to do this.

I agree!..This is a good start. Local Manufacturing is the 1st step to innovation and progress.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

should be investing in R&D and looking to improve their patent portfolio. I wonder why they don't pay any attention towards this?

It is not possible that a company grows to a 30,000 employee company from a 2 people company without the research and development, evolution, marketing and innovation, it is all part of the evolution process. Same with other big companies in Pakistan.

Only those companies will survive which has in house evolution and innovation and R&D, otherwise companies only involved in warehousing and assembly without any technical skills cannot survive, new companies will take over their position. Check DESCON workforce it is 30,000 strong in 2010.

Descon Engineering

Type
Private
Industry Engineering, Construction, Manufacturing & EPC
Founded 1977
Headquarters Lahore Pakistan
Area served
Pakistan, UAE, KSA, Qatar & Kuwait
Key people
>Abdul Razaq Dawood (Chairman & CEO)
Products Boilers, HRSGs, Skids, Pressure Vessels, etc.
Services Engineering, construction and EPC for onshore projects
Number of employees
30,000 (2010)
Website www.descon.com

 

[CriticalThought]

I agree with you, there is no such thing as 'car manufacturing' its is always car assembly unit. No need to 'reinvent the wheel'. IBM the computer giant doesn't makes a single computer hardware equipment, what it does is it outsource all its requirement to vendors all over the world, mix and match, assemble it and Voila...the cutting edge computer is ready...

Pakistan is doing fairly good in manufacturing and quite good in engineering service industry...but need to expand and set a new benchmark. Need more investment, it goes without saying.

Also take the example of HMC(heavy mechanical complex) Taxila, it manufactures cement plants, sugar plants all in house and at the same time makes tanks and armored vehicles for Pak Army, and HMC is a under civilian control, i guess. So ideally it should be some collaboration like PAC Kamra collaborating with engineering firms in Pakistan to develop small passenger planes, avionics, and what not. And it goes both ways....but not in favor of Army calling the shots...they can bring in their administration skills in some segments.

Then answer me this simple question. How come we can't design our own assault rifle? Why do we need to partner with Ukraine for a new tank? Why aren't we creating our own cars? I find these smoking gun evidences of our lack of design and engineering ability.

It is not possible that a company grows to a 30,000 employee company from a 2 people company without the research and development, evolution, marketing and innovation, it is all part of the evolution process. Same with other big companies in Pakistan.

Only those companies will survive which has in house evolution and innovation and R&D, otherwise companies only involved in warehousing and assembly without any technical skills cannot survive, new companies will take over their position. Check DESCON workforce it is 30,000 strong in 2010.

Descon Engineering

Type
Private
Industry Engineering, Construction, Manufacturing & EPC
Founded 1977
Headquarters Lahore Pakistan
Area served
Pakistan, UAE, KSA, Qatar & Kuwait
Key people
>Abdul Razaq Dawood (Chairman & CEO)
Products Boilers, HRSGs, Skids, Pressure Vessels, etc.
Services Engineering, construction and EPC for onshore projects
Number of employees
30,000 (2010)
Website www.descon.com

A lot of assumptions going on here. In Pakistan it is possible to be one a billionaire through corruption instead of ability. The figures don't tell us a thing.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Another success story of a pure local Pakistani brand 'WAVES'...naam hi kafi hay.

Number one choice in deep freezers, no other brands are even close....so the point is Pakistanis do prefer local products if they are worth it.

Waves Cool Industries (Pvt) Limited. was established in 1973 and grew to a leading Home Appliances manufacturing Company in Pakistan, in a very short span of time. This was achieved by the tireless efforts of our devoted Management, highly motivated professionals and dedicated team work, committed to excel in the quality and services.

check their website here...

http://www.waves.net.pk/about

Why aren't we creating our own cars?

Check the car vendor industry in Pakistan, there are not tens, but now now the number of car vendor units are in hundreds, with over 200 billion worth of products last year, about 75% of all parts is small cars are all local made, in big cars the deletion level is close to 65%.

In Motorcycle industry the deletion level is as high as 95%, and some manufacturers like Indus bikes has started manufacturing engines as well.

Check car vendor industry website here.

http://www.paapam.com/

A lot of assumptions going

Facts and figures do tell the story...its is not about financial prowess and billionaires and not.

There are approximately around 2,000-2,400 companies operating in the automotive parts market in Pakistan. A large number of these are involved in the production of aftermarket parts 200-240 companies supply parts for OEM (original equipment manufacturer) production.

http://fp.brecorder.com/2016/12/20161230118454/

 

[CriticalThought]

Another success story of a pure local Pakistani brand 'WAVES'...naam hi kafi hay.

Number one choice in deep freezers, no other brands are even close....so the point is Pakistanis do prefer local products if they are worth it.

Waves Cool Industries (Pvt) Limited. was established in 1973 and grew to a leading Home Appliances manufacturing Company in Pakistan, in a very short span of time. This was achieved by the tireless efforts of our devoted Management, highly motivated professionals and dedicated team work, committed to excel in the quality and services.

check their website here...

http://www.waves.net.pk/about




Check the car vendor industry in Pakistan, there are not tens, but now now the number of car vendor units are in hundreds, with over 200 billion worth of products last year, about 75% of all parts is small cars are all local made, in big cars the deletion level is close to 65%.

In Motorcycle industry the deletion level is as high as 95%, and some manufacturers like Indus bikes has started manufacturing engines as well.

Check car vendor industry website here.

http://www.paapam.com/



Facts and figures do tell the story...its is not about financial prowess and billionaires and not.

There are approximately around 2,000-2,400 companies operating in the automotive parts market in Pakistan. A large number of these are involved in the production of aftermarket parts 200-240 companies supply parts for OEM (original equipment manufacturer) production.

http://fp.brecorder.com/2016/12/20161230118454/

Reality check: the basic design of cars in Pakistan is of Japanese origin. It does not show our indigenous design and engineering capability in any way. Please don't confuse manufacturing with design/engineering.

 

[Afzal2010]

Very informative thread. In reality, in 3rd world countries corruption is the number 1 stagnating factor to any domestic entrepreneurs. I assume Pakistan isn't any different? Are there any state incentives towards creating small businesses which create employment in Pakistan?

 

[N.Siddiqui]

PAEC, Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission,



List of nuclear medicine and oncology centers in Pakistan operated by PAEC.

• Pakistan Institute of Nuclear Science & Technology (PINSTECH)
  PINSTECH, being a premier R&D institute of PAEC has contributed to the frontiers of knowledge in a number if fields. Over the years, it made significant contribution in PAEC program by carrying out various technical assignments of national interest. The highly qualified manpower is engaged in the R&D at PINSTECH.
  
  
  
• 
  
  Pakistan Research Reactor - I (PARR-I)
  In the beginning, the experimetnal & research facilities at PINSTECH were limited to PARR-I, a 5 MW swimming pool type research reactor. The reactor has now been upgraded to 10 MW. With this upgrdation, the experience and know-how obtained in redesigning, engineering and renovation has promoted indigenous expertise and led to a greater degree of self reliance.
  
  
  
• 
  
  Pakistan Research Reactor - II (PARR-II)
  PARR-II is a Tank-In-Pool type, 27 KW research reactor. It is a safe and economical tool for neutron activation analysis and training. PARR-II is an ideal facility for teaching and training.
  

http://www.paec.gov.pk/Medical/

A list of civilian nuclear power plants in Pakistan, all managed by PAEC, some are to be commissioned in 2019.

 

[Alternative]

Are they exporting as well? If not, then why not?



I regard exports as the litmus test of a hi-tech manufacturing firm. And I mean export to places such as EU, America, South East Asia. And it's excellence is in the patents it holds. How many patents do they have?

PEL and other industries do export to Asian, African destinations, but huge, huge local demand is making them Pakistan-centric: In local market these companies get good prices, and you can compare the prices of comparable consumer goods across South Asia, and you will (may) be surprised that these are much pricier. A cursory look at prices of Car and motorcycle will confirm this.
Descon does projects all Asia and Africa, and such projects are own in competition of Chinese, European, etc companies.

Then answer me this simple question. How come we can't design our own assault rifle? Why do we need to partner with Ukraine for a new tank? Why aren't we creating our own cars? I find these smoking gun evidences of our lack of design and engineering ability.

A lot of assumptions going on here. In Pakistan it is possible to be one a billionaire through corruption instead of ability. The figures don't tell us a thing.

Question is, do we have ability to design a car on our own? Answer is Yes.
Students of University of Engineering and Technology, Lahore, decades ago designed and manufactured cars from locally produced parts as Project. Few attempts were made to launch local car brand in past by some parties, but not successful, for example Adam Revo : Car was made but company was not financial strong enough to provide 3S services across significant area.
Following is the link to Pakistani designed and manufactured EURO compliant engines.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pride-pakistan-millat-tractors-limited-takes-lead-1st-tipeg

In the manufacturing of vehicles the Finance is main ingredient to make it work; to establish and maintain a 3S network across Pakistan still ordinary workshops and parts dealers do start to work for new brand.

I think Designing a weapon system, like, tank, has more to deal with strategy and battle doctrines rather than engineering ability. We do lack in conceptualizing, designing in weapon systems, but we do have manufacturing ability, people in Darra can copy/manufacture an AK or M16 at a fraction of original's cost.

 

[CriticalThought]

PEL and other industries do export to Asian, African destinations, but huge, huge local demand is making them Pakistan-centric: In local market these companies get good prices, and you can compare the prices of comparable consumer goods across South Asia, and you will (may) be surprised that these are much pricier. A cursory look at prices of Car and motorcycle will confirm this.
Descon does projects all Asia and Africa, and such projects are own in competition of Chinese, European, etc companies.


Question is, do we have ability to design a car on our own? Answer is Yes.
Students of University of Engineering and Technology, Lahore, decades ago designed and manufactured cars from locally produced parts as Project. Few attempts were made to launch local car brand in past by some parties, but not successful, for example Adam Revo : Car was made but company was not financial strong enough to provide 3S services across significant area.
Following is the link to Pakistani designed and manufactured EURO compliant engines.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pride-pakistan-millat-tractors-limited-takes-lead-1st-tipeg

In the manufacturing of vehicles the Finance is main ingredient to make it work; to establish and maintain a 3S network across Pakistan still ordinary workshops and parts dealers do start to work for new brand.

I think Designing a weapon system, like, tank, has more to deal with strategy and battle doctrines rather than engineering ability. We do lack in conceptualizing, designing in weapon systems, but we do have manufacturing ability, people in Darra can copy/manufacture an AK or M16 at a fraction of original's cost.

A couple of points. First of all, I should modify the argument I have presented. Technically, there is no objective way to answer the question "Does Pakistan have the capability to design and then industrially manufacture X". And that is because we can have small scale projects to demonstrate design of X, but in order to make a profit from industrial manufacturing you need to comply with patent laws. It becomes a chicken and egg problem. So, in today's world, it actually doesn't make much sense to ask the question: can we design and manufacture X from scratch?

A better question to ask is: what initiatives are we taking to increase exports of hi-tech products that are manufactured in Pakistan and whose IP rights we hold. This means showing the following capabilities:

1. A plan for license production of hi-tech equipment. Show that it is being executed successfully.
2. A plan to systematically acquire patents in various aspects of the manufacturing process in license production. Show that it is being executed successfully.
3. A plan to systematically increase the goods produced in 1 and 2. Show that it is being executed successfully.
4. A plan to systematically increase the exports of goods in 1, 2, and 3. Show that it is being executed successfully.

I think these would better questions to ask. They still require honest commitment from the government and multiple generations of visionary leaders who keep the plans working and keep updating them to meet modrn challenges.
3

 

[N.Siddiqui]

Following is the link to Pakistani designed and manufactured EURO compliant engines.

Didn't know about it, good progress here. From the Linkedin site you attached.

Pride of Pakistan Millat Tractors Limited takes lead in the automobile industry by developing Pakistan's 1st Emission Compliant Diesel Engines.

Its a moment of great pride that MTL has indigenously developed emission Compliant Diesel Engines meeting the international standards for cleaner environment. The company has made sizeable investment in this project with the establishment of a dedicated Engine R&D Lab for design, development and testing of emission complaint engines. This pioneer improvement by MTL promises to open new doors for the export of Pakistani Tractors in global markets and earning precious foreign exchange for the country.

Millat Tractors Pakistan production range, it is in the export market as well, and holds about 60% of Pakistan market.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0972820115619258

http://www.millatgroup.net/?page_id=754