LOCKHEED MARTIN ANNOUNCES F-16V DEVELOPMENT - A new F-16

[SQ8]

If it weren't so then SUPERMANEUVERABILITY wouldn't have been a vital asset or one of the 4--S of the 5th gen. fighters.
Yes
The F-22A
PAK FA
even the J-20.

Not on the F-35.. infact the thing doesnt even have a hud.
The F-22 was thought up in the early 80's... back then.. the concept of having to point a nose and get onto somebody's tail was still relevant... missiles were still thought to have a chance to miss.
The Russians can get over the TVC factor..
and the J-20 has nothing of "supermaneuverablility".
it looks more like a quiet killer rather than one to do "ballet" around the sky.

 

[DARKY]

Not on the F-35.. infact the thing doesnt even have a hud.
The F-22 was thought up in the early 80's... back then.. the concept of having to point a nose and get onto somebody's tail was still relevant... missiles were still thought to have a chance to miss.
The Russians can get over the TVC factor..
and the J-20 has nothing of "supermaneuverablility".
it looks more like a quiet killer rather than one to do "ballet" around the sky.

About turning the missile I would like to ask Chogy would he be happy to sit in a plane whose missile turns or would he prefer the plane with itself turns..

please keep the loss of kinematics while turning the missile against the motion of plane and advantage while firing the same along the motion... also how effective the seeker lock would be while it is trying to hit a target which say has turned behind the F-35 or is chasing the F-35...

 

[SQ8]

About turning the missile I would like to ask Chogy would he be happy to sit in a plane whose missile turns or would he prefer the plane with itself turns..

please keep the loss of kinematics while turning the missile against the motion of plane and advantage while firing the same along the motion... also how effective the seeker lock would be while it is trying to hit a target which say has turned behind the F-35 or is chasing the F-35...

I really cant understand what you mean to say by the initial bolded part?
Do you mean to imply that aircraft like the F-15 or F-16 have the maneuverability of a "jumbojet"??
The Aim-9X.. the ASRAAM.. all are capable of 180 degree post merge shots.
However.. since you bought the F-35 into the equation.. have you considered that an aircraft with exceptional situational awareness will actually wait for the enemy it knows and sees to get behind it?
that it will actually allow it to close up?
Or that in todays network centric battlefield there will be no warnings from friendly forces?
You are constantly thinking on 1vs1 scenarios(which such aircraft with higher SA still win) in what is a real battlefield of multiple connected assets.

 

[DARKY]

I really cant understand what you mean to say by the initial bolded part?
Do you mean to imply that aircraft like the F-15 or F-16 have the maneuverability of a "jumbojet"??
The Aim-9X.. the ASRAAM.. all are capable of 180 degree post merge shots.
However.. since you bought the F-35 into the equation.. have you considered that an aircraft with exceptional situational awareness will actually wait for the enemy it knows and sees to get behind it?
that it will actually allow it to close up?
Or that in todays network centric battlefield there will be no warnings from friendly forces?
You are constantly thinking on 1vs1 scenarios(which such aircraft with higher SA still win) in what is a real battlefield of multiple connected assets.

Talking of scenario... a good machine must be able to cope with every possible senatorial which opponent can present.. an Israeli F-35 against 6-7 Arab nation equally armed with J-10Bs/JF-17s/Mig 29s/Su30s is totally a different from the USAF+NATO+Allies against Afghanistan/Libya/Iraq.

Supersonic jets might produces such situations against the F-35 can the F-35 afford the loss of speed to align itself or can it align it self accordingly..

 

[SQ8]

Talking of scenario... a good machine must be able to cope with every possible senatorial which opponent can present.. an Israeli F-35 against 6-7 Arab nation equally armed with J-10Bs/JF-17s/Mig 29s/Su30s is totally a different from the USAF+NATO+Allies against Afghanistan/Libya/Iraq.

Supersonic jets might produces such situations against the F-35 can the F-35 afford the loss of speed to align itself or can it align it self accordingly..

The Israeli F-35 will have G-550 and the ECM Eitams backing it up.
It will have upgraded Barak's providing escort...
Supersonic jets will still be picked up the by the F-35.. a simple look from the HMS.. the DAS will align itself...and supersonic jets will find an AIM-120 that has a very very low probability of a miss after them. In the far chance that it does miss..there is already another AIM-120 cued by the F-35's escorts or another F-35 on its way.

Infact.. it doesnt even have to be an F-35.. the F-16I possess the ability to survive in a high threat environment.
You forget that the USAF/NATO trained for 50 years to fight the scenario you mentioned.
Its this game of insurgents that is new to them.. not conventional warfare.. GW-I is proof enough.

 

[DARKY]

The Israeli F-35 will have G-550 and the ECM Eitams backing it up.
It will have upgraded Barak's providing escort...
Supersonic jets will still be picked up the by the F-35.. a simple look from the HMS.. the DAS will align itself...and supersonic jets will find an AIM-120 that has a very very low probability of a miss after them. In the far chance that it does miss..there is already another AIM-120 cued by the F-35's escorts or another F-35 on its way.

Infact.. it doesnt even have to be an F-35.. the F-16I possess the ability to survive in a high threat environment.
You forget that the USAF/NATO trained for 50 years to fight the scenario you mentioned.
Its this game of insurgents that is new to them.. not conventional warfare.. GW-I is proof enough.

similar capabilities exists with R-77M also.
as far as I know F-35 has only 4 BVR in its weapon bay... while Same can't be said for its adversaries...
How many AMRAAM can it afford to loose on a single opponent ?... and where would it carry its heat seeking missiles.

F-16 would be gone long before yes Its grown old... That's why they are making F-35 and selling it so vigorously If it were so good then no point in wasting such amount of money.

 

[SQ8]

similar capabilities exists with R-77M also.
as far as I know F-35 has only 4 BVR in its weapon bay... while Same can't be said for its adversaries...
How many AMRAAM can it afford to loose on a single opponent ?... and where would it carry its heat seeking missiles.

F-16 would be gone long before yes Its grown old... That's why they are making F-35 and selling it so vigorously If it were so good then no point in wasting such amount of money.

Those 4 BVR's can get very close without anybody knowing they are there.
First look.. first kill.. with a single bullet triumphs those armed with machine guns.

 

[Safriz]

 

[DARKY]

Those 4 BVR's can get very close without anybody knowing they are there.
First look.. first kill.. with a single bullet triumphs those armed with machine guns.

How close can it afford remember there are Infra red sensors which can look upto 90km... If we consider f-35 invisible to any radar whatsoever with whatever peak power and aperture product... as well as other add--ons like L-band radars.

 

[SQ8]

How close can it afford remember there are Infra red sensors which can look upto 90km... If we consider f-35 invisible to any radar whatsoever with whatever peak power and aperture product... as well as other add--ons like L-band radars.

How do these systems track?
Do they have such a wide FoV.. high detection rate?
Do they offer similar accuracy to radars AT THESE max advertised ranges?

Also you ignore that the perceived blue force F-35 is also equipped with what is possibly the best infrared and optical sensor developed yet.

 

[DARKY]

How do these systems track?
Do they have such a wide FoV.. high detection rate?
Do they offer similar accuracy to radars AT THESE max advertised ranges?

Also you ignore that the perceived blue force F-35 is also equipped with what is possibly the best infrared and optical sensor developed yet.

actually its around 35km head on... and 90km from rear....

Defunct Humanity: OLS-35 IRST option for Su-30 family

As far as I know EFT has even better IRST.. with about 140km in rear end tracking.

 

[SQ8]

actually its around 35km head on... and 90km from rear....

Defunct Humanity: OLS-35 IRST option for Su-30 family

As far as I know EFT has even better IRST.. with about 140km in rear end tracking.

For an aircraft with reasonable IR suppression.. having to get 35km close to pick it up(using just IR) sounds like suicide by Aim-120.
IRST's will keep improving.. but are no longer the preferred silent kill method.
Again.. any asset will NOT go alone.
AWACS, ELINT.. all come into play.

 

[DARKY]

For an aircraft with reasonable IR suppression.. having to get 35km close to pick it up(using just IR) sounds like suicide by Aim-120.
IRST's will keep improving.. but are no longer the preferred silent kill method.
Again.. any asset will NOT go alone.
AWACS, ELINT.. all come into play.

So does Large AESA operating at high power and other added accessories like L-band radars and EW/ECM suite.
AWACS would stand the danger of being shot down recently Russians tested a 6-mach LR-BVRAAM which could hit targets upto 300km.
Its wouldn't be like one alone all data from different planes available on a single MFD screen... these days weapons have been design to be guided on the same.

 

[tvsram1992]

Pakistan cannot get a better 4th gen fighter than this one .

 

[SQ8]

So does Large AESA operating at high power and other added accessories like L-band radars and EW/ECM suite.
AWACS would stand the danger of being shot down recently Russians tested a 6-mach LR-BVRAAM which could hit targets upto 300km.
Its wouldn't be like one alone all data from different planes available on a single MFD screen... these days weapons have been design to be guided on the same.

Provided they can see and lock on to an AESA system on an AWACS(most future AEW&C are).. then the missile has to survive massive jamming and countermeasures while being CONSTANTLY illuminated to the target.
Too many variable that need to be constant for it to succeed.

The Russian jets bank on too much untested tech. Figures which are always "Best case"(something the Chinese have started to copy).
Here's an example of Russian exaggeration.
A particular Russian Communications company was offering a low bandwidth compression codec based on a NATO standard that is extremely robust under noise for a particular processor.
I was tasked to evaluate a sample they had sent against existing American standard.
The result was disappointing to say the least... The Russian code failed to perform even close to the benchmark of the US standard. eventually I had to write and adapt existing code based on the standard. the process was long and tedious... but the result now matches the US standard benchmark and outperforms the Russian attempt in many respects.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg.. there are many figures stated for Russian equipment in use with our military(and apparently even in India's fleet) that refuse to make up for their performance claims.
So if I am to keep the exact stated Russian capabilities in mind with what they state to be correct.. then in that case one must also take into account what supporting hardware will back up any Russian super fighter.
datalink abilities, ECM, EW..
What caliber?
The fact being that most users of Russian hardware including Malaysia and India have resorting to sourcing supplementing systems from other manufacturers such as Israel,european nations or even the US.
This has less to do with Russian ingenuity and capability.. and more to do with the decade and more lost after the collapse of the USSR.

Lets take it more close to home..
An MKI with its Bars.. and Israeli jammer.. datalinked with the Phalcon.. is a far more capable jet than a pure russian Su-35.
even then.. stand alone.. with untried weapons such as the R-77M(existing or hypothetical LRAAMS) .. one has to handicap it till its proven in combat.
Recent "combat tests" such as red flag have not been so complementing..

System such as the F-16.. have known to work seamlessly in a combat environment and be part of the defense network.
They have proven records.. whether against an inferior enemy or not becomes irrelevant when combat effectiveness is concerned.
After all.. The Rafale proved itself in Libya.. even against an inferior enemy..it went into combat unsupported.. and was able to perform both A2A and A2G taskings in a single mission(even attacking what should be traditional A2A targets using A2G weapons.
That is combat proof..