Lies My History Teacher Told Me

[Spring Onion]

Hitler led his country into war as he thought best.

and in the meanwhile he did what was needed to prove his power so basically there was no holocaust right ?

 

[Slav Defence]

on the contrary I believe in both .
both contribute exceptionally to the forum .. such comments are an unfortunate but unavoidable by-product. I am sure they will clean up the act

Regards

 

[gambit]

Lets see, Japanese Military Production Infrastructure, Personnel, Ammo, Morale, all in tatters, but the US IGNORES targets of strategic military value, and bombs the hell out major population centers. That sure makes a lot of sense. Again this is with a 1940's perspective!

After the war, it turned out there were underground factories capable of manufacturing everything from rifles to tanks to even fighters. The Japanese managed to turn peanut oil into working lubricants. Further, the Quantung Army was on the march home. This army was defeated on mainland China, but on home soil, they would have been formidable insurgent fighters.

Yes...The benefits of hindsight just to criticize America.

Regards

I know...Every yr the same crap get re-post over and over...

no he wasn't

lets move on shall we?

It must sucks big time for you Pakistanis to see the few Americans on this forum defend their country, and evidently, it sucks worse to see naturalized Americans at that.

Oh...The mental anguish so many of you must go through to see your little corner of the Internet contaminated by Americans.

 

[Hellfire]

so if this is justified and right then why Hitler wasn't ?

Because he lost the war

 

[syedali73]

Not very smart from a claimed 'academician'.

What I posted was to illustrate how the Americans could not have know how the Japanese would react. Given the benefit of today's investigation, if the US had tossed the A-bombs into the oceans as many said the US should have, the war would have been longer.

How many of you defenders of Imperial Japan know of this...

http://fas.org/irp/eprint/arens/chap4.htm

First of all I did not suggest that N Bomb should have been dropped into the sea for it would be total waste of such a marvelous piece of technology (albeit deadly). There were military targets available such as Okinawa and other islands with heavy concentration of Japanese troops. Secondly, Russia had declared war against Japan too. On August 8, 1945, Japanese ambassador Satō was informed by the soviet foreign minister Molotov that the Soviet Union had declared war on the Empire of Japan. Soon after that, Japanese troops in Manchuria came under Soviet attack that was going to be extended to Pacific and ultimately on Japan. Japans's air force was all but badly crippled and Japanese citites and industrial complexes were under constant and relentless air raids by the USAF long range bombers. Even without taking more islands from Japan, a combined assault both form the South/South East by Allies and North and North West from Russians was enough to render the Emperor to surrender. But No, the Americans were keen to show their military might and the show they made.

Lastly, thought I need not to explain myself but because you raised it... No, I am not an Imperial Japan (or Nazi Germany or fascist Italy for that matter) apologist nor do I saw anyone else here. In general, I commend what allied did in WWII and honor the sacrifices they made and respect the velour of the troops.

 

[Hellfire]

In other words, a 'real' American is one who opposes US policies according to how YOU want them to oppose US policies. Not because they gave genuine thoughts on the issues.

That is the problem with democracies both yours and mine, we have to apologize for being right and we have to criticize our nations to be termed inclusive, responsible and progressive. Bloody Shame!

 

[Indus Falcon]

You sure about that...???

After Nagasaki was destroyed, the Emperor decided to surrender, but guess what...

Kyūjō incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So even after two cities were nuclear destroyed, hardliners still wanted to prolong the war.

How many of you defenders of Imperial Japan know of this...

http://fas.org/irp/eprint/arens/chap4.htm

After you posting the above two links, one tends to wonder IF you really are a "Professional." Because the one thing no historian has been able to deny, is that Imperial Japan's back was already broken, when they got nuked.

Under ground factories, coup d'etat, you can go on, and on, and on. BUT ground realities are something you can ignore / deflect, NOT change!

The more you open your mouth, the more you look like a ..................

 

[jhungary]

250,000 Marine and 850,000 US Army soldier would have disagree with the OP.

As usual, this topic are derailed by trying to debate an historical event while benefitted by Hind Sight. Of course it would be easy for all of us sitting in front of a computer and side seat drive what the US should have done in the 1945.

Rule 1 : Never discuss an historical event when you consider what you know today.

What if you are one of the Infantrymen who just come from 2 months fighting in Iwo Jima and 4 months campaign in Okinawa? At that point, you only know this, you survive a mad fight in Iwo Jima, where 1 in 5 of your buddies dies and 1 in 2 of other of your buddies are wounded. And you are facing an enemy that literally fight to the last man (If I remember correctly only 216 of some 20,000 garrison surrendered) and then done that, and you move on to the next war in Okinawa. Which is simply 4 times bigger and 4 times as cruel as the one you just fought to finish 15 days ago. Only this war, 1 in 4 of your buddy never made it home and 1 in 2 are casualty.

Now they are telling you that you are going to Tokyo or some magical bomb that would destroy a City in 5 second. Now tell me, if you are an infantryman in frontline, which one do you prefer?

Rule 2 : There are no "READY TO SURRENDER" there are only surrendered or fights on.

War don't stop just because of you want to make peace, there are only 2 states in war, that's WAR and PEACE. trying to get there, wanting to get there,, willing to get there mean absolutely nothing in War. Or you really believe "Since we are talking bout peace, maybe we should cut down fighting?"

I am sorry, war does not go that way. In fact, if History are any stand point on this issue. Most war had actually seen more casualty during peace talk. 2/3 of Casualty during Korean war are during the peace talk stage, it does not help when the war drag on for 2 more years (2/3 of the whole war) in peace talk.

In Vietnam, 3/5 of casualty appear during and after Paris peace talk, that happened from 1969 to 1973

Rule 3 : No mercy or quarter given in war.

Have heard enough of "is it enough to just shot his hand, leg or anything but not kill him?"

There is a reason why Special Force were taught to double tap. Where you bring down your enemy with 2 shot in the chest and come up to him and shot him once in the head just to make sure.

In War, there are no maybe. And each time you second guess your decision from the "maybe" would simply kill more of your own men. You can sit in the corner and think about what "Maybe" or "Could be" when the battle or war is all over. You have plenty of time to think about that, trust me, 10 years after I came back from my first battle, I still think about the decision I made during my war, and what could be of different. But when the war is still in progress, there are no maybe or could be. Maybe they want to surrender? But what if you are wrong? Do you want to bet your life or god forbid, your friend's life on it?

You may not agree with me, but again, this is how I see things, war is just like that, it would be naïve to think otherwise.

 

[Hellfire]

If you bother to go back o the beginning of this thread you'll notice an absolute submission and apologetic behavior no question of any sort. Don't put words in my mouth that I have never said.

There indeed was a suggestion to target something like Okinawa for it was purely a military target instead of cities. Message would have been loud and clear as to what Americans could do to make the Emperor to surrender. Instead, not one but two N-bombs were dropped on the cities. If this was not war crime I don know what is.

Would not have given us the concept of counter value strike would it? Anyways, since it was a strategic strike, one needs to see why it was selected as a target by analyzing the topographical location. A logical target and suitably identified. Something which both you and I are doing for each other daily lol

 

[gambit]

After you posting the above two links, one tends to wonder IF you really are a "Professional."

Unlike most of you here, I never petitioned for titles. I do not care if you believe my military service or not. My technical arguments destroyed most misconceptions here and if the powers-that-are deemed it sufficient to believe me, you can take issues with them.

Because the one thing no historian has been able to deny, is that Imperial Japan's back was already broken, when they got nuked.

Under ground factories, coup d'etat, you can go on, and on, and on. BUT ground realities are something you can ignore / deflect, NOT change!

Yeah...That came from the benefit of hindsight.

The more you open your mouth, the more you look like a ..................

Same to you, pal. Must sucks big time to see yourself challenged by a naturalized American.

Rule 1 : Never discuss an historical event when you consider what you know today.

Noooooo...!!! How could you be so cruel...!!!

 

[jhungary]

Noooooo...!!! How could you be so cruel...!!!

lol why this would be cruel..........

 

[gambit]

lol why this would be cruel..........

Because you brought on real life experience, something these people do not have. Intellectually speaking, that was cruel because you denied them the one tool they have to criticize US decades after the fact.

 

[syedali73]

and in the meanwhile he did what was needed to prove his power so basically there was no holocaust right ?

Now that was the N Bomb.

Unlike most of you here, I never petitioned for titles.

Nobody did. Stop insulting other members. Are you not aware how TTs are chosen? They file petitions to be choses? Boy!!!

 

[Spring Onion]

he Japanese managed to turn peanut oil into working lubricants. .

then indeed American bombing of Japanese cities was justified

 

[gambit]

then indeed American bombing of Japanese cities was justified

I guess so according to your simple mind.