Lies My History Teacher Told Me

[Slav Defence]

Personal insults like calling someone a slave in a racial context is never required in a debate. But catching someone in an intellectual gaff -- pants down -- is required and is never considered a personal insult.

Both are insults Mr.Gambit..on serious note and both actions are highly condemnable.Should I clean up the thread or there is something else you like to add?
Regards

 

[gambit]

Both are insults Mr.Gambit..on serious note and both actions are highly condemnable.Should I clean up the thread there is something else you like to add?
Regards

Clean up the thread. I call it a euphemism for covering up. But do as you wish. You must put up a good image for your fellow Pakistanis.

 

[syedali73]

I fail to see the connection between American Native Indian and the 2 Atomic Bombs, or am I the only one cannot see the connection??

It came from the following statement in which you implied Nazis as racists and acquitted Americans from any such sin. Whereas the fact of the matter is, Americans were as much racists as were their European cousins and it was not Japan where segregation laws were sill enforced until late1960s, it was US.

It is a bit different between bombing someone in war til they are submitted than putting people in gas chamber because they are a particular race or religion.

 

[Slav Defence]

Clean up the thread. I call it a euphemism for covering up. But do as you wish. You must put up a good image for your fellow Pakistanis.

...and I call it wastage of time and stupidity. Everyone knows who is what.Both you people needs some time out.

regards

 

[Armstrong]

September 1940. The U.S. placed an embargo on Japan by prohibiting exports of steel, scrap iron, and aviation fuel to Japan, due to Japan's takeover of northern French Indochina.

April 1941. The Japanese signed a neutrality treaty with the Soviet Union to help prevent an attack from that direction if they were to go to war with Britain or the U.S. while taking a bigger bite out of Southeast Asia.

June 1941 through the end of July 1941. Japan occupied southern Indochina. Two days later, the U.S., Britain, and the Netherlands froze Japanese assets. This prevented Japan from buying oil, which would, in time, cripple its army and make its navy and air force completely useless.

Toward the end of 1941. With the Soviets seemingly on the verge of defeat by the Axis powers, Japan seized the opportunity to try to take the oil resources of Southeast Asia. The U.S. wanted to stop Japanese expansion but the American people were not willing to go to war to stop it. The U.S. demanded that Japan withdraw from China and Indochina, but would have settled for a token withdrawal and a promise not to take more territory.

Prior to December 1941, Japan pursued two simultaneous courses: try to get the oil embargo lifted on terms that would still let them take the territory they wanted, and ... to prepare for war.

After becoming Japan's premier in mid-October, General Tojo Hideki secretly set November 29 as the last day on which Japan would accept a settlement without war.

The Japanese military was asked to devise a war plan. They proposed to sweep into Burma, Malaya, the East Indies, and the Philippines, in addition to establishing a defensive perimeter in the central and southwest Pacific. They expected the U.S. to declare war but not to be willing to fight long or hard enough to win. Their greatest concern was that the U.S. Pacific Fleet, based in Pearl Harbor could foil their plans. As insurance, the Japanese navy undertook to cripple the Pacific Fleet by a surprise air attack.

Interesting. I read somewhere that Admiral Yamamotto was against going to War with the US because he did not think that Japan could sustain the war effort required to win the war.

 

[gambit]

It came from the following statement in which you implied Nazis as racists and acquitted Americans from any such sin. Whereas the fact of the matter is, Americans were as much racists as were their European cousins and it was not Japan where segregation laws were sill enforced until late1960s, it was US.

That is absurd. The use of the A-bombs were for wartime necessity, not because the Japanese was -- Japanese. What Hitler did was because Jews were -- Jews.

Interesting. I read somewhere that Admiral Yamamotto was against going to War with the US because he did not think that Japan could sustain the war effort required to win the war.

You mean this...

Isoroku Yamamoto's sleeping giant quote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."[1]

Although the quote may well have encapsulated many of his real feelings about the attack, there is no printed evidence to prove Yamamoto made this statement or wrote it down.

 

[syedali73]

...and I call it wastage of time and stupidity. Everyone knows who is what.Both you people needs some time out.

regards

At any rate, it is 11PM, time to hit the bed. Good night.

 

[syedali73]

That is absurd. The use of the A-bombs were for wartime necessity, not because the Japanese was -- Japanese. What Hitler did was because Jews were -- Jews.

you sir might want to pay a visit to Hawaii and get to talk to some old Japanese who witnessed those days. They'll tell you the meanings of racism towards Japs.

 

[Aepsilons]

Their expectation was clearly wrong, as subsequent events would prove quite spectacularly.

Yes, in hindsight, of course. The issue was that defeat was unplanned, it was not part of the equation, so to say. One word: Enigma. That changed everything.

 

[gambit]

you sir might want to pay a visit to Hawaii and get to talk to some old Japanese who witnessed those days. They'll tell you the meanings of racism towards Japs.

I grew up in Hawaii, academician. I even personally knew members of the war time Japanese soldiers who settled in Hawaii.

 

[syedali73]

I grew up in Hawaii, academician. I even personally knew members of the war time Japanese soldiers who settled in Hawaii.

OK. Sometimes you claim you are a Vietnamese, now you claim you grew up in Hawaii. This kind of academics is out of my reach. It is pointless to continue. BTW, Hawaii was settled by Japanese even before the war... wait, but how can I claim this? I am only an academician.

 

[Armstrong]

Yes, in hindsight, of course. The issue was that defeat was unplanned, it was not part of the equation, so to say. One word: Enigma. That changed everything.

What ? I thought the Enigma was the German Code-Machine - What did the Japanese have to do with it ?

 

[VCheng]

Yes, in hindsight, of course. The issue was that defeat was unplanned, it was not part of the equation, so to say. One word: Enigma. That changed everything.

Very well said. That is also why is is not right to judge war decisions with hindsight. For either side.

 

[gambit]

OK.

You got it. I lived on Paani St. Went to the Ala Wai canal for crabs. Graduated from Kaimuki High School in 1982. Took flying lessons in high school and often flew over Pearl Harbor.

 

[Aepsilons]

You mean this...

Isoroku Yamamoto's sleeping giant quote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Therein lies the unique aspect of Admiral Yamamoto. His personal opinings were his own , that did not influence his decision and plan to strike Pearl Harbor, above all else, the sense of duty to the Nation trumped personal opinions. In fact, I would even say that Yamamoto was more of a 'defense' player. His peer, Admiral Nagumo, actually called for the Nihon Kaigun to initiate the invasion and occupation of Hawaii after the Kido Butai pummeled the defenses.

1. Yamamoto sought to target only military facilities and only Pacific Fleet assets
2. Nagumo wanted to strike Pacific Naval Assets + strategic civilian areas
3. Yamamoto proposed for the striking at Pearl + retreat to Japan-occupied areas
4. Nagumo protested, stating that defense was the worst decision; Nagumo sought to capture Hawaii and then strike Panama Canal + consider invading Western coast of the USA.