L&T's FICV Concept

[Nilgiri]

Hi @Nilgiri
My point was pretty simple and that if we did not have the kind of private giants we have, then the situation would be something else. However we repeatedly failing to fully leverage the capabilities of our private sector is the main concern here.

Yes I am just expanding upon why that "failing to fully leverage" is happening in a broader attitude that infects Indian bureaucracy (that you also correctly bring up earlier).

You see, what many of us have forgotten is what living in a closed economy was like. When we were learning our trade, as managers, that ultimately meant people management, although I was supercilious and condescending about it when I encountered it in Ramesh Bhasin and his type. On the systems side, we had IBM 1401s, the last of which, at Hyderabad Asbestos that later became Hyderabad Industries, improved its main memory through titanic R&D efforts by Armonk to 16 kB (yes, Victoria, kB). They used paging to get anything done. They also fooled a batch computer into thinking it was doing batch jobs by using CICS, something that only the IBM people understood. Those were water-cooled machines, and the water was imported (from a purification plant in Australia). We also had Unit Record Machines, with a priestly hierarchy presiding over the Computer Room. Even management could only go in there with permission in triplicate, and the people inside had the breezy informality and casual attitude towards hierarchy that only elite formations possess.

That is when L. K. Jha broke open Indian industry.

Next installment follows.

Will have to pass this on to my dad (he worked at a telecoms PSU till he got super frustrated at very much the phenomenon you are describing here. He was one of the best mainframe specialists that graduated from IISc, even went to France in his early career days for some more training under Alcatel @Vergennes ).

I never lived through (at remember-able age anyway) the closed economy stage of India...my earliest memories of relevance are post 91 (and I suppose there was still much leftovers then too, it doesn't all just magically go away). So what I know what I do on that era's "real"stuff ....at more anecdotal level....mostly from my folks (my mom worked at a bank, so that stuff is pretty interesting too).

Can't wait for the next installment!

I've always wondered what my life would have been like had Indias 91 reforms came say just 5 years earlier...given my dad packed shop in the end (and made his career overseas) because he saw no hope in the stasis wrought there by the complexes/attitudes/environment...it was just 3 or so years before 91. If the timing was just a bit earlier, I likely would have remained in India (and be contributing to it so much better)....and destiny might have been very different. My dad also told me if he got a good job at TATA (and he was setting up for it), he would have stayed no matter what...he so wanted to honour jamshedji's name... he knew the value of what that great man did...the statue there in IISc speaks to it. But alas it didnt pan out.

 

[randomradio]

The TATA SED version looks more like a BMP analogue, whereas the TATA Motors version looks completely different, maybe even more like a western platform.

I prefer all the other models I have seen compared to Tata Motors.

All other competitors have unmanned turrets while only Motors has manned turrets.

It seems bureaucracy is the biggest enemy of Indian state! India somehow mysteriously fails to leverage a vibrant private sector in projects such as these. India has giants like TATA, Mahindra, L&T, AL, Bharat Forge to name a few that can very well design full fledged armored vehicles. However year after year, Indian MoD just sits on the proposals and mediocre PSUs are promoted. I am pretty sure if Pakistan had even half the strength of our private sector giants like TATA or Mahindra, their military would have gotten not only a much higher indigenization content in their weapons but a lot of weapons for which the Pakistani military have to go to companies like Denel or Europe could have been designed in house. And here in India we have so many giants, yet we time and again do not leverage their expertise. What a shame!
@Nilgiri
@Signalian

Yup, this particular program - FICV - should have been finalized and ready 4 years ago, all the players are ready to compete. BMP replacement is no joke, it'll basically set them in place as a big armour producer in not just India, but the world, but the gov is taking too long to finalize the requirements. The user too get in the way in some of these programs as well.

Whatever the case, private sector domination in aero and defence is an eventuality, because they will force the change to their favor, whether through good or bad methods. Even though their motive is pure profit, selfishness they will improve the efficiency and lethality of the Indian armed forces. Indian defence manufacturing cannot be controlled by one gov company in each domain.

The army is still figuring out what they need.

For example, FRCV will see the introduction of heavy IFVs. Kinda like the Armata's T-15.

If we get heavy IFVs, then we have no real need for too many light IFVs. Since the army wants the FRCV to be amphibious, including the battle tank, the need for FICV will disappear.

Also, heavy IFVs have much more armour, can carry more personnel, ammo and more assorted goodies compared to the FICV. So it shouldn't turn into a situation where they are stuck with a light IFV they have no need for.

If FRCV cannot be made amphibious, then we need FICV in large numbers. If FRCV works out, then some stopgap BMP orders are enough.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

For example, FRCV will see the introduction of heavy IFVs. Kinda like the Armata's T-15.

If we get heavy IFVs, then we have no real need for too many light IFVs. Since the army wants the FRCV to be amphibious, including the battle tank, the need for FICV will disappear.

Also, heavy IFVs have much more armour, can carry more personnel, ammo and more assorted goodies compared to the FICV. So it shouldn't turn into a situation where they are stuck with a light IFV they have no need for.

If FRCV cannot be made amphibious, then we need FICV in large numbers. If FRCV works out, then some stopgap BMP orders are enough.

I have a feeling this is like IA's small arms requirements, they waste unnecessary amount of time.

 

[randomradio]

I have a feeling this is like IA's small arms requirements, they waste unnecessary amount of time.

The idea behind FRCV is to create an RMA (Revolution in Military Affairs), whereas the FICV is simply another albeit advanced IFV.

But yeah, the army can be quite indecisive at times.