KFX/IFX News and Development

[Indos]

KFX/IFX model is also tested in Indonesia wind tunnel test facility which has 30 years of experience in testing aircraft. If we do close look, it look like C 103 design that become a base of final design of C 109.

 

[Indos]

originally posted by @LKJ86

 

[Whizzack]

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air-warfare/kf-x-prototype-assembly-continues-apace/

AIR WARFARE
KF-X prototype assembly continues apace
28th July 2020 - 01:43 GMT | by Gordon Arthur in Christchurch

KAI said in June that it would finalise assembly of the first prototype by the end of this year. Seoul plans to eventually produce around 120 of these aircraft for the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF).

The first fighter could roll out as early as next April. Its first flight is scheduled for 2022 with further development and testing continuing until 2026, by when the Block 1 variant will be considered ready for full production.

This is the second fighter programme for KAI after the FA-50 light fighter. The ROKAF needs the platform to replace ageing F-4 Phantom II and F-5E/F Tiger II fighters that continue to soldier on in service (see table below).

The $7.4 billion KF-X project kicked off in January 2016, and the design was unveiled on 29 June 2018 after the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) completed a preliminary design review immediately prior to that.

DAPA reported last September that the critical design review had been completed, paving the way for construction of the first prototype to commence.

South Korea has already selected precision-guided munitions and guidance kits to be used aboard the KF-X. These are the Raytheon GBU-12 Paveway II, Boeing GBU-31/38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), GBU-54/56 Laser JDAM, GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bomb 1 and Textron Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser CBU‐105.

The integration process of these weapons, expected to take six to seven years, will start later this year.

MBDA declared last November that its Meteor beyond-visual-range AAM had been awarded a contract for integration on the KF-X. The Diehl IRIS-T short-range AAM is also set to be added.

South Korea is also developing a supersonic air-to-surface missile suitable for the KF-X. Its speed will be around Mach 2.5, have a range of at least 250km and weigh less than 1.36t.

The US refused to transfer four critical technologies to South Korea for its fighter programme, namely the AESA radar, EO targeting pods, IR search and track system and RF jammer, despite these being promised by Lockheed Martin when Seoul signed up for the F-35A.

Consequently, avionics on the KF-X are primarily indigenous. Assisted by IAI Elta, Hanwha Systems is responsible for the AESA radar, and it announced within the past month that the radar’s development was complete. The first prototype is expected to be unveiled on 12 August. The radar passed a critical design review on 26 September 2019, and it has since been conducting aerial testing.

For the radar, Israel’s Elbit Systems is providing the terrain following/terrain avoidance system, with a $43 million contract announced in February.

In May, General Electric delivered the first F414-GE-400K turbofan engines to South Korea. The engine manufacturer will deliver 15 engines for six prototype fighters by 2021. In all, Hanwha Techwin will licence-produce the remainder of 240 of these GE engines. The KF-X will also utilise Martin-Baker Mk18 ejection seats.

Indonesia has a 20% investment share in the KF-X programme, although Jakarta’s payments were well in arrears to the tune of $415 million by April. Approximately 100 engineers from PT Dirgantara Indonesia have been cooperating with KAI; they will shortly return to South Korea after they temporarily departed in March due to the growing COVID-19 crisis.

The future fighter fleet of the ROKAF will therefore comprise the single-engine FA-50, F-16 and F-35A, plus the twin-engine KF-X and F-15K.

 

[Indos]

@SgtGungHo @dr.knowhow

From what I read, Jokowi administration feel reluctant to have 20 % of KFX/IFX financial contribution. The reluctancy is still seen from February official statement, but IMO it doesnt mean Indonesia will leave the program as the administration only want to reduce the financial contribution into 15 %.

I also think Indonesia want to get some TOT of subsystems being developed using KFX/IFX development cost.

Latest statement from Defense Minister Deputy (July), he said Indonesia will fully support the program and pay 20 % financial contribution if it gets "sufficient" benefit from the program. The benefit that he mean is more on access of 9 critical technology of the plane.

 

[dr.knowhow]

@SgtGungHo @dr.knowhow

From what I read, Jokowi administration feel reluctant to have 20 % of KFX/IFX financial contribution. The reluctancy is still seen from February official statement, but IMO it doesnt mean Indonesia will leave the program as the administration only want to reduce the financial contribution into 15 %.

I also think Indonesia want to get some TOT of subsystems being developed using KFX/IFX development cost.

Latest statement from Defense Minister Deputy (July), he said Indonesia will fully support the program and pay 20 % financial contribution if it gets "sufficient" benefit from the program. The benefit that he mean is more on access of 9 critical technology of the plane.

Thanks for the info. You are giving quite some insight about how things are going on in Indonesia that I'm grateful of.

Unfortunately for those who want the transfer of critical technologies, there are already a fixed list of transferable technologies developed via KF-X/IF-X program.

So it really comes down to what thoes 9 technologies are. I highly doubt that techs like flight control techniques or AESA, sensor fusion related stuff etc would be able to be transfered to any foreign country.

For instance the development of AESA for fighter jet has already been under works since 2006 and was followed by series of development programs. Same applies to other core avionics technologies involved in the KF-X program. All of them were developed without ToT from the outside.

(side note : Unlike what is widely known outside of Korea the request for the transfer of 4 critical technologies denied by the US was more of a "good if it works, if not no problem" kind of a call. Like I've said, a lot of the avionics being integrated into the KF-X has been on development for a long time and ADD and ETRI was quite confident qbout it.)

If we take a look on other foreign involvements apart from LM's TAC role in the program, Saab was on the advisory role for the development of the radar and Elta has helped us with testing of the AESA hardware. Non of those foreign involvments had transfer of technology.

Then there is Leonardo who's going to supply the hardware of the IRST but no software, so Korea had to develop that on their own. Of course there were no ToT for the core tech of the hardware. Importing the hardware was more down to cost savings rather than lack of technology so it also wasn't much of a big deal for both parties.

Other cases outside of Korea only proves that ToT of critical components is impossible. Japan for instance had to develop their FBW system after being denied of ToT by the US. Fortnuately for them, they were already developing FBW using their F-1 jet which they quickly applied to the F-2.

In any case where the transfer of critical tech occured, it was never unilateral. For instance Japan obtained the core tech of F110 engine as a bilateral exchange of their technologies to the US, composite structure manufacturing techniques among other things.

The Jokowi administration or anyone who wants ToT of core components has to first think of what they can offer. They should know that the reason we are able to proceed with the plan of devloping a full-blown fighter jet with such a small budget compared to other countries is not because we are doing miracles but rather down to the fact that Korea has already paid the price with all the preceding development programs. Doubling down on their demands of more ToT with less involvment is never gonna bear any fruit.

 

[dr.knowhow]

@Indos
Could you tell me what those 9 technologies are?

For instance I know that Indonesia has developed its own FBW sytem for the cancelled N250 aircraft so that's not where Indonesia is lacking much. It might be the case that they want the data of the newest flight control algorithms like NDI model but it's hard to say that Indonesia won't be able to develop such algorithms on they're own.

AESA or EW technologies and techniques are other cases but for me it's difficult to judge because I'm not really well informed of Indonesia's capabilities on developing avionics apart from the fact that they have quite some experience on developing the flight control systems.

 

[Indos]

@Indos
Could you tell me what those 9 technologies are?

For instance I know that Indonesia has developed its own FBW sytem for the cancelled N250 aircraft so that's not where Indonesia is lacking much. It might be the case that they want the data of the newest flight control algorithms like NDI model but it's hard to say that Indonesia won't be able to develop such algorithms on they're own.

AESA or EW technologies and techniques are other cases but for me it's difficult to judge because I'm not really well informed of Indonesia's capabilities on developing avionics apart from the fact that they have quite some experience on developing the flight control systems.

He doesnt specify the 9 critical technologies that he mentioned. I see him as bias and he looks like to prefer buying F 35 from what I read from his comment history. He said something which is not true like his critics on the way Indonesian engineers working in Korea that according to him dont transfer the knowledge into engineers who are staying in Indonesia.

His statement is not true since Indonesian Aerospace has made shadow KFX/IFX program in Indonesia that is intended to make other Indonesian engineers who dont go to Korea study the KFX R&D process in Korea and also IMO to make other engineers who stay in Indonesia can contribute on the program. This is why we can see KFX/IFX model being tested in Indonesian wind tunnel facility (BBTA3) as we can see in my previous post.

He is appointed as Minister of Defense deputy due to his political carrier in which he become part of Jokowi campaign team in 2019 election. He doesnt have military and technology background as he is a businessman. His task as Deputy is to develop our defense industry according to Jokowi.

Luckily he is not our Minister of Defense. So far there is no statement coming out from our Minister of Defense regarding the renegotiation other than diplomatic statement he said during meeting with Korean Minister of Defense in Jakarta early this year. Our new Minister of Defense has appointed the men in charge with KFX/IFX program during Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono period as his advisor, so I believe he has person behind him who really understand the situation regarding the program.

 

[SgtGungHo]

@SgtGungHo @dr.knowhow

From what I read, Jokowi administration feel reluctant to have 20 % of KFX/IFX financial contribution. The reluctancy is still seen from February official statement, but IMO it doesnt mean Indonesia will leave the program as the administration only want to reduce the financial contribution into 15 %.

I also think Indonesia want to get some TOT of subsystems being developed using KFX/IFX development cost.

Latest statement from Defense Minister Deputy (July), he said Indonesia will fully support the program and pay 20 % financial contribution if it gets "sufficient" benefit from the program. The benefit that he mean is more on access of 9 critical technology of the plane.

Than you for you info. I have been busy at my work as the pandemic wreaked havoc on many Australian businesses including my firm's clients.

Anyway, @dr.knowhow is right. Demanding more concessions on ToT for even less financial commitments towards the program wouldn't get you any good result. Especially this is true when Indonesia is in arreas for their program payments.

I am not sure what those 9 critical technologies are (I'd be appreciated if anyone could clarify on this issue), but Indonesia can't seriously expect to receive more than what they were promised for less money.

It seems like the Indonesian government is making excuses of quiting the program. They have already made up their mind on KFX/IFX and are looking for alternatives (including used Typhoon from Austria), but the Indonesian government has to pretend that the decision is made by Korea, not by them to deflect the blame as the opposition party will surely criticize the incumbent government of Indonesia over the fallout.

If their demands are accepted by Korea, Jokowi's administration would celebrate that as one of their accomplishments and use this for their political campaigning.

If their demands are rejected by Korea, Jokowi's administration would put the blame on Korea for refusing to re-negotiate the joint program despite of Indonesia's "commitment" to the flighter jet and present used Typhoon from Austria or whatever other alternatives as a better solution for Indonesia by claiming that KFX/IFX was a bad project for Indonesia to begin with.

I mean it is just all politics and it seems it's clear to me that Indonesia believes it is not worth to cooperate Korea over military projects anymore, at least in the incumbent government's views. I am sure Jokowi's administration would cancel sunmarine contracts with Korea if the Indonesian government could opt out from the contract without paying much financial penalty.
https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/ind...south-korea-for-3-diesel-electric-submarines/

It is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. The dead end is when it is due for Korea to deliver all parts for the 6th prototype of KF-X/IF-X which is supposedly reserved for Indonesia for final assembly in the country and this will happen during Jokowi's administration.

Korea can't and won't deliver the 6th prototype if Indonesia doesn't honor the origianl contract.
The Indonesian government thinks they win either ways so they won't fullfil their financial obligation and will keep demanding both re-negotiation for the joint program and the 6th prototype.

In any case, Indonesia has proven to be an unreliable partner. If the government of Korea is ready to cave in costly demands of Jokowi's administration (sadly I can't competely rule out of the weak & incompetent government of Korea caving in), the country needs to return Indonesian engineers back to home and formally expel Indonesia from the program, just like what the US did to Turkey over F-35 program as it seems like their exit from the joint project is certain and it is just a question of when. Indonesia has already learned from the project more than what they paid as they are in arrears.

I have no doubt Indonesia will find other cost efficient alternatives for what their airforce needs.

 

[Indos]

Than you for you info. I have been busy at my work as the pandemic wreaked havoc on many Australian businesses including my firm's clients.

Anyway, @dr.knowhow is right. Demanding more concessions on ToT for even less financial commitments towards the program wouldn't get you any good result. Especially this is true when Indonesia is in arreas for their program payments.

I am not sure what those 9 critical technologies are (I'd be appreciated if anyone could clarify on this issue), but Indonesia can't seriously expect to receive more than what they were promised for less money.

It seems like the Indonesian government is making excuses of quiting the program. They have already made up their mind on KFX/IFX and are looking for alternatives (including used Typhoon from Austria), but the Indonesian government has to pretend that the decision is made by Korea, not by them to deflect the blame as the opposition party will surely criticize the incumbent government of Indonesia over the fallout.

If their demands are accepted by Korea, Jokowi's administration would celebrate that as one of their accomplishments and use this for their political campaigning.

If their demands are rejected by Korea, Jokowi's administration would put the blame on Korea for refusing to re-negotiate the joint program despite of Indonesia's "commitment" to the flighter jet and present used Typhoon from Austria or whatever other alternatives as a better solution for Indonesia by claiming that KFX/IFX was a bad project for Indonesia to begin with.

I mean it is just all politics and it seems it's clear to me that Indonesia believes it is not worth to cooperate Korea over military projects anymore, at least in the incumbent government's views. I am sure Jokowi's administration would cancel sunmarine contracts with Korea if the Indonesian government could opt out from the contract without paying much financial penalty.
https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/ind...south-korea-for-3-diesel-electric-submarines/

It is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. The dead end is when it is due for Korea to deliver all parts for the 6th prototype of KF-X/IF-X which is supposedly reserved for Indonesia for final assembly in the country and this will happen during Jokowi's administration.

Korea can't and won't deliver the 6th prototype if Indonesia doesn't honor the origianl contract.
The Indonesian government thinks they win either ways so they won't fullfil their financial commitments and will keep demand both re-negotiation for the joint program and the 6th prototype.

In any case, Indonesia has proven to be an unreliable partner. If the government of Korea is ready to cave in costly demands of Jokowi's administration (sadly I can't competely rule out of the weak & incompetent government of Korea caving in), the country needs to return Indonesian engineers back to home and formally expel Indonesia from the program, just like what the US did to Turkey over F-35 program as it seems like their exit from the joint project is certain and it is just a question of when. Indonesia has already learned from the project more than what they paid as they are in arrears.

I have no doubt Indonesia may find other cost efficient alternatives for what their airforce needs.

For your information, current Minister of Defense, which is Prabowo is a rival of Jokowi during the last 2 elections and he is quite close with the opposition. This is why I am still quite optimistic that the renegotiation some how can be concluded with both parties are satisfied and Indonesia is still inside the program. He is the man who is appointed by Jokowi to handle the renegotiation.

 

[SgtGungHo]

For your information, current Minister of Defense, which is Prabowo is a rival of Jokowi during the last 2 elections and he is quite close with the opposition. This is why I am still quite optimistic that the renegotiation some how can be concluded with both parties are satisfied and Indonesia is still inside the program. He is the man who is appointed by Jokowi to handle the renegotiation.

The problem that I see here is that any amendment to the original contact would not be a satisfactory result for Korea. This is not a re-negotiation, but more of a demand for additional concessions by Indonesia.

It seems to me the only difference between between the incumbent government of Indonesia and the opposition is that the Indonesian govt believes it is not worth to persue the joint program and the opposition believes it is worth to persue the program ONLY IF the Korean government concurs with Indonesia and make additional concessions to Indonesia.

I wish Korea and Indonesia would develop more military partnerships over various other projects from UAV to turboprop&turboshaft engines (Korea is developing various gas-turbine engines for many decades) for both military & civilian aircraft in the future, but alas it seems like that future looks very bleak. Maybe after 2024 when there is a new government in Indonesia (as well in Korea).

 

[Indos]

The problem that I see here is that any amendment to the original contact would not be a satisfactory result for Korea. This is not a re-negotiation, but more of a demand for additional concessions by Indonesia.

It seems to me the only difference between between the incumbent government of Indonesia and the opposition is that the Indonesian govt believes it is not worth to persue the joint program and the opposition believes it is worth to persue the program ONLY IF the Korean government concurs with Indonesia and make additional concessions to Indonesia.

I wish Korea and Indonesia would develop more military partnerships over various other projects from UAV to turboprop&turboshaft engines (Korea is developing various gas-turbine engines many decades and for both military & civilian aircraft in the future, but alas it seems like that future looks very bleak. Maybe after 2024 when there is a new government in Indonesia (as well in Korea).

From what I see from the news, parliament members in Defense commission support KFX/IFX program and it includes the high profile members of Jokowi own coalition. The person who ask government to pay KFX/IFX contribution that I posted in previous page is also coming from Jokowi coalition parties. While inside Jokowi inner circle in his administration, I still see people who supported the program and see South Korea as the best partner for Indonesia in defense industry cooperation. But of course there are opposition inside his inner circle, but Jokowi I believe understand the important to keep good relation with South Korea.

Contrary to your judgement, I believe Jokowi still want to keep Indonesia inside the program with some concessions. If he think the cooperation is not worth it, he has already cut the cooperation in June 2018. At that time there are two opinion regarding the program, first stop the cooperation and the second is to continue. There was cabinet meeting discussing that two options and they then made a compromise by saying Indonesia will keep inside the program but with some concession from current contract.

Jokowi is older generation leaders who dont really understand the important of R&D and feel that Indonesia should focus more on basic economic infrastructure investment. Current government even dont finance N 245 program although Indonesia Aerospace only need about 200 million dollar, let alone more ambitious R80 program which is kicked out from our strategic priority program 2020-2024.

In 2024, there will be many young leaders whose ages are in early 50's and in majority has either master or Phd degree. So I think those leaders have more understanding about R&D importance and will likely to be more ambitious in high technology program. Prabowo is the only older generation leader that still has strong support for 2024 election (he got the highest pooling). I have made a special thread about those young leaders in PDF. Indonesia basic infrastructure will also likely have been quite good at that time that make our budget can be diverted more on R&D budget.

That is why this period IMO is critical, if we can make a fair compromise to each other, the future for both cooperation will be quite bright IMO. Indonesia government also has already got parliament permission to get higher budget deficit, so I see more capability from Indonesian side to comply with its 20 percent financial obligation.

 

[Whizzack]

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-...indigenous-aesa-radar-for-k-fx/139669.article

South Korea unveils indigenous AESA radar for K-FX
By Greg Waldron7 August 2020

• Save article

Seoul has rolled out the first production prototype of the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar that will equip the developmental Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) KF-X fighter.

The ceremony took place at the research facility of manufacturer Hanwha Systems in Hanjin, according to South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration.

Following the US government’s refusal to share sensitive AESA technology with Seoul in 2015, South Korea’s Agency for Defense Development embarked on the creation of an indigenous AESA set, with Hanwha Systems producing the radar’s hardware and LIG Nex1 the software.

The radar passed its critical design stage in 2019 and has 1,000 independent transmit and receive modules. The entire system includes the antenna, processing device, and a power supply.

A video of the unveiling ceremony shows the radar searching for and detecting targets in the air, sea, and land, as well as a synthetic aperture radar function. It also shows technicians working on the system in laboratories.

In April 2019, airborne tests of the KF-X’s AESA hardware systems, including the transmit-receive antenna and the power supply unit, took place in South Africa with the attendance of KF-X developers from the ADD, Hanwha and KAI.

In addition to extensive Korean industrial participation, foreign firms such as Elta Systems, Leonardo, and Saab are involved in the project.

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In addition to equipping the KF-X, Hanwha Systems sees its AESA technology as a potential upgrade for Seoul’s force of Boeing F-15Ks and T-50 family aircraft.

The unveiling of the radar follows other steps indicating progress with the KF-X, which is due to be rolled out in April 2021.

In early July KAI issued a photograph of the first KF-X fuselage, which is undergoing assembly in the company’s Sacheon factory. In June, GE Aviation confirmed that it had shipped the first F414 engine for the twin-engined type. Eventually, F414s for the K-FX will be produced locally by Hanwha Aerospace.

 

[Indos]

Official video from the Agency for Defense Development (ADD) teases that Internal Weapons Bay (IWB) is already reflected in KF-X's software development.

The cockpit GUI (Graphical user Interface) features open / close function of an IWB and 6 x AAMs inside the IWB.

 

[Whizzack]

Official video from the Agency for Defense Development (ADD) teases that Internal Weapons Bay (IWB) is already reflected in KF-X's software development.

The cockpit GUI (Graphical user Interface) features open / close function of an IWB and 6 x AAMs inside the IWB.

@Indos
I think I read somewhere before that in the block 1 version of KFX, the space reserved for IWB will be used to install additional fuel tank... and that this is to satisfy TNI AU's requirement for a longer range/endurance version of KFX (IFX)..? After the development of the bay doors and release mechanism in block 2 (or later version), this space will then revert back as IWB for additional stealth but less range /endurance compared to block 1...
What do you think..? Is there any truth in that notion...?

 

[Indos]

@Indos
I think I read somewhere before that in the block 1 version of KFX, the space reserved for IWB will be used to install additional fuel tank... and that this is to satisfy TNI AU's requirement for a longer range/endurance version of KFX (IFX)..? After the development of the bay doors and release mechanism in block 2 (or later version), this space will then revert back as IWB for additional stealth but less range /endurance compared to block 1...
What do you think..? Is there any truth in that notion...?

I dont know, there is no official confirmation about that, but the possibility for that is quite high. They will try to make the design as efficient as it can to store the fuel since Indonesia need to have fighter that has good range, and I believe Korea also see this as something important as well since I also think KFX is actually more intended to neutralize any challenge coming from China and Japan, not necessarily from North Korea, thus range becomes quite important. It is also why both Indonesia and Korean airforce prefer double engine fighter.

The thing that is sure enough and has already been confirmed is that the final design which is C109 has already been made with IWB in mind.