Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Awesome]

separatist supporters are getting desparate. they have lost their ground and political viability.so they tend to put up a hissy fit every now and then trying to get attention...and in the process if anyone's hurt ,blame it on security forces!no big deal....moving along.....

It's funny how many times they are managing to do it...

Kashmiris are the separatists. No other way around it.

 

[advaita]

Asim, what do you think the repercussions would be on both sides if the leaders decide to actually implement such a plan??
Especially from the public point of view?

In the case of Pakistan, I feel this would be possible only with a Military regime as the civilian govt. have been quite weak in Pakistan.
As far as India goes, I feel the opposition parties will create a major storm.....might even lead to protests and internal unrest.......

But definitely the advantages outweight the losses!!!

Oh Oh. Peshwaji looks like you fell for a red herring.

Just my opinion though.... We can surely differ.

Still I think jis ka kaam usi ko saaje.

BTW except the third front every govt let by a National party (Congress or BJP) had exactly the same policies regarding national defence, economics. Even the 123 was discussed and passed.

 

[fryndfire]

It's funny how many times they are managing to do it...

Kashmiris are the separatists. No other way around it.

hardly the case.kashmiris are waking up and they're chosing ballot over bullet.majority of kashmiris voted in the election.and the lone separatist leader contesting the poll lost.

 

[R.A.W.]

Pakistanis would whole heartedly support such a deal. Remember all of Musharraf's proposals were rejected by India. They were even warmly received by Kashmiris, only Indians were rejecting every single proposal.

India wants the status quo to continue, which is just not possible.

The only and only solution to Kashmir is to liberate it, neither Pakistan's nor Indias. That is what the Kashmiris want too. Pakistanis would support that, would Indians?

If we liberate it will be more trouble because of its location..... and the way things are we will add one more poor nation to south asia and it can very well be trapped by anyone Indians, Chinese, Pakistan, Russians and not forget US. Kashmir is one location from where you can watch India, Pakistan, China all of them....

 

[Awesome]

hardly the case.kashmiris are waking up and they're chosing ballot over bullet.majority of kashmiris voted in the election.and the lone separatist leader contesting the poll lost.

If you're so sure about the majority let there be a plebiscite and we'll know the truth.

 

[Awesome]

If we liberate it will be more trouble because of its location..... and the way things are we will add one more poor nation to south asia and it can very well be trapped by anyone Indians, Chinese, Pakistan, Russians and not forget US. Kashmir is one location from where you can watch India, Pakistan, China all of them....

Thats the Kashmiris concern then. Kashmiris are saying it won't be any trouble, then who are Indians to play big brother on them.

 

[Peshwa]

Pakistanis would whole heartedly support such a deal. Remember all of Musharraf's proposals were rejected by India. They were even warmly received by Kashmiris, only Indians were rejecting every single proposal.

India wants the status quo to continue, which is just not possible.

The only and only solution to Kashmir is to liberate it, neither Pakistan's nor Indias. That is what the Kashmiris want too. Pakistanis would support that, would Indians?

Thats not true Asim....the vibe that most members give on this forum is that Kashmir should be integrated with Pakistan.....in accordance with the UN charter where the only choice is India or Pakistan.......
I think Agnostic had a bitter argument regarding the same.....
Wish I could remember which thread....its just that every India-Pak thread is also a mini Kashmir thread.....

I agree with you......the stakes are too high now for either country to give up their demands.....so feedom for Kashmiri's is the only solution.....
But does the solution mean peace and end of problem for Kashmiri's??No...a landlocked country dependednt on two giant neighbors vying for their resources etc will only bring us back to square one!!

 

[R.A.W.]

Asim I have been to Kashmir. Let me tell you something. No doubt there are separatists in Kashmir. But these protests are the only thing which are worthy of reporting over there. Or there are terrorist attacks. So this is the only thing that comes in news so it looks like as if whole of Kashmir is burning. An average Kashmiri has colored himself Indian by now. Kashmiris are all over India. This is the only thing that fuels the sentiments. Will you read the news which says Indians did this good thing in Kashmir. Hardly people will read it. If it is bad it sells that is the first point in Journalism.

My take on the solution is the LOC to be the international border because the people on the other side have colored themselves as Pakistanis. So it will only increase problems for India if we take whole of Kashmir.

 

[Skeptic]

Remember all of Musharraf's proposals were rejected by India.

Cant be... Since they were so close to closing the deal some ground of mutual understanding must have been arrived at. atlest one of the proposal must have been resonated by India.

India wants the status quo to continue, which is just not possible.
It is possible but not desirable

The only and only solution to Kashmir is to liberate it, neither Pakistan's nor Indias. That is what the Kashmiris want too.
That is not the solution. I guess Musharraf / existing indian FO realised the same and hence working on the alternate formula. Actual solution will dissolve indian position but not to the extent of "Liberating" Kashmir. From a pragmatic prespective it will be
a) foolish, since India is in a position of strength (control of territory)
b) Political suicide for the political party reaching any such arrangement which seriously undermines Indian stance.
c) Will derive zero support from within India.


Pakistanis would support that, would Indians?
That is the moral high ground taken by most Pakistanis, whilst calling for UN pelbscite in the same breath which offers no such option.

Fact is Pakisan stands to gain everything from by such "Liberation" and India stands to loose everything. Deals are never made on such uneven grounds. We can see additional autonomy to the region, we can negotiate porus borders but outright giving up on the issue - No deal Sir.

 

[fryndfire]

If you're so sure about the majority let there be a plebiscite and we'll know the truth.

if they didnt want to be a part of india,they wouldnt have voted in the first place,or would have chosen the separatist leaders.most separatist leaders didnt contest the poll because they knew they'd lose and the turth will be out.

but on another note, what about a plebiscite in baluchistan?

 

[Awesome]

Thats not true Asim....the vibe that most members give on this forum is that Kashmir should be integrated with Pakistan.....in accordance with the UN charter where the only choice is India or Pakistan.......
I think Agnostic had a bitter argument regarding the same.....
Wish I could remember which thread....its just that every India-Pak thread is also a mini Kashmir thread.....

I agree with you......the stakes are too high now for either country to give up their demands.....so feedom for Kashmiri's is the only solution.....
But does the solution mean peace and end of problem for Kashmiri's??No...a landlocked country dependednt on two giant neighbors vying for their resources etc will only bring us back to square one!!

Pakistan has always pushed for plebiscite, not simple integration. The rules of the plebiscite always clearly state that they may join India, Pakistan or choose Independence. So we're quite open to the idea of a Kashmiri independence.

 

[Peshwa]

Oh Oh. Peshwaji looks like you fell for a red herring.

Just my opinion though.... We can surely differ.

Still I think jis ka kaam usi ko saaje.

BTW except the third front every govt let by a National party (Congress or BJP) had exactly the same policies regarding national defence, economics. Even the 123 was discussed and passed.

Difference in opinion is necessary my friend.....Gives us Indians a varied perspective on things....

To a certain extent I agree with you.....policies have remained the same accross parties, but only once the party came to power......BJP and Congress systematically use current agendas and actions of the govt to prove inefficiency and rile people up!!!

 

[Awesome]

if they didnt want to be a part of india,they wouldnt have voted in the first place,or would have chosen the separatist leaders.most separatist leaders didnt contest the poll because they knew they'd lose and the turth will be out.

but on another note, what about a plebiscite in baluchistan?

Balochistan is not the topic of this discussion nor is it a disputed territory.

IF India ever knew that people would vote for India, it would be the first in line demanding a plebiscite just like India ran to the UN actually involved the UN in, and was a willing signatory to the UN resolutions calling for the plebiscite.

 

[Skeptic]

Pakistan has always pushed for plebiscite, not simple integration. The rules of the plebiscite always clearly state that they may join India, Pakistan or choose Independence. So we're quite open to the idea of a Kashmiri independence.

No sir that is misinformation. Kindly quote the clause in UN resolution sighting freedom as an alternative.

 

[R.A.W.]

Balochistan is not the topic of this discussion nor is it a disputed territory.

IF India ever knew that people would vote for India, it would be the first in line demanding a plebiscite just like India ran to the UN actually involved the UN in, and was a willing signatory to the UN resolutions calling for the plebiscite.

There is no point of having plebiscite when the people have already voted their government to power. This already justifies their decision. And in actual for the plebiscite to happen one would require to remove the forces and this can form the safe grounds for the insurgents to peek into kashmir and create a havoc over there.