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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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So we agree that "official" Pakistani policy does'nt stand for the right of self-determiniation for people of J&K then?

"Self-determination is defined as free choice of one’s own acts without external compulsion; and especially as the freedom of the people of a given territory to determine their own political status or independence from their current state."

I am not sure how Pakistan's support for the UNSC resolutions that call for a plabisicte in Kashmir so that the kashmiris may select between India and Pakistan does not stand for 'self-determination', though in a narrower context.

Pakistan's official position is one based on the UNSC resolutions, and the UNSC resolutions only allow for two choices - India or Pakistan.

This should answer Blueoval's rant as well.
 
If an autonomous like set-up of governance is possible in "Azad Jammu and Kashmir", why the same is not replicated in the region, people wonder.

That is precisely what the recent political reforms in G-B intend to do, EjazR.

This article was originally posted in 2007, so you are a bit late in posting it, since his central critique, of lack of autonomy ala Azad Kashmir, stands addressed.
 
Kasab's Hindi tutor, an LeT terrorist, killed in Jammu - India - NEWS - The Times of India

MUMBAI/JAMMU: Top Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) commander Abu Jundal was gunned down in an encounter in Jammu on Friday. The Mumbai Crime Branch is in touch with Jammu cops and trying to get Jundal's photograph to establish if he is the same militant who had taught Hindi to the 10 terrorists who entered Mumbai last November and killed 163 people.

Jammu police officers said they received information about the presence of a group of LeT terrorists in the Batoi forest in Mahore, 120 kms from Jammu. Security forces and local policemen launched a joint combing operation and an encounter ensued; an AK-47, a magazine and some ammunition were recovered from the site and self-styled LeT commander Jundal alias Mohammad Avais (going by the code name of Zuman in ***) was killed.

Pakistani terrorist Ajmal Kasab on July 20 told the trial court that one Abu Jundal was part of the LeT group that had tutored them; he had described Jundal as his Hindi teacher. "Woh hamein Hindi sikhathe the,'' Kasab had told the court and added that Jundal was an Indian.

But Jundal was not mentioned in the 26/11 chargesheet nor did his name come up during the investigation. It was Kasab's statement in court that first brought the spotlight on Jundal.

City Crime Branch officials said there was no confirmation if the Jundal killed by Jammu cops was the same person described by Kasab. "We will ask for the dead man's photograph and show it to Kasab to identify him. Code names are very common in LeT and so it's difficult to say anything more without further verification,'' a senior officer said.
 
I cant help it...its a sad news hear as we celebrate teacher' day in india today. :devil:
 
Strange,in 2002 Karakoram International University was established and the writer doesnt know about that.SCO doesnt have any monopoly now.
 
That is precisely what the recent political reforms in G-B intend to do, EjazR.

This article was originally posted in 2007, so you are a bit late in posting it, since his central critique, of lack of autonomy ala Azad Kashmir, stands addressed.

Yes this article is old, but G-B package was announced only last week. Besides, the article mentions the history of how FANA areas got to be part of Pakistan and the invasion of tribals in Gilgit.

The recent G-B package is only partly addressing the problems. Pakistani govt. should be commended that finally after 60+ years the people of G-B can elect their representatives and govern themselves. Something that other parts of J&K have been enjoying for most of the past 60 years with a few exceptions.

Although how autonomous it will be is still to be seen. Will the assemble vote to allow its people to freely move out of G-B without getting an exit visa from GoP? Will there be free and fair media functioning there? And most importantly will pro-independence groups allow to canvass and present their point of view to the people of G-B? or even in PaK?
 
"Self-determination is defined as free choice of one’s own acts without external compulsion; and especially as the freedom of the people of a given territory to determine their own political status or independence from their current state."

I am not sure how Pakistan's support for the UNSC resolutions that call for a plabisicte in Kashmir so that the kashmiris may select between India and Pakistan does not stand for 'self-determination', though in a narrower context.

Pakistan's official position is one based on the UNSC resolutions, and the UNSC resolutions only allow for two choices - India or Pakistan.

This should answer Blueoval's rant as well.

There is a significant pro-independence presence. Unfortunately some Kashmiris have been misguided that independence is an option under UNSC resolutions which is not the case. So the plebiscite as per UNSC with the option of only India and Pakistan loses relevance.

As opinion poll after poll has shown, Kashmiris living in India would prefer India rather Pakistan as the "lesser evil" if no other option is given. What they really want is independence, which Pakistan doesn't want and neither is it a viable given that it will be landlocked surrounded by four nuclear states and most likely become the playground for external powers like Afghanistan.

And correct me if I'm wrong, under Musharraf, Pakistan had agreed to fore go the plebiscite and move to joint management of the valley region. Which IMO shows that he realised that a plebiscite would most likely not be in GoPs favor.
 
There is a significant pro-independence presence. Unfortunately some Kashmiris have been misguided that independence is an option under UNSC resolutions which is not the case. So the plebiscite as per UNSC with the option of only India and Pakistan loses relevance.

As opinion poll after poll has shown, Kashmiris living in India would prefer India rather Pakistan as the "lesser evil" if no other option is given. What they really want is independence, which Pakistan doesn't want and neither is it a viable given that it will be landlocked surrounded by four nuclear states and most likely become the playground for external powers like Afghanistan.

And correct me if I'm wrong, under Musharraf, Pakistan had agreed to fore go the plebiscite and move to joint management of the valley region. Which IMO shows that he realised that a plebiscite would most likely not be in GoPs favor.

The Plebiscite under the UNSC resolutions does not lose relevance based on opinion polls - the UNSC resolutions remain the only agreement that had the unanimous endorsement of the global community, India and Pakistan, and continue to offer the only moral and ethical solution to the dispute - of allowing the people of Kashmir to choose between India and Pakistan.

Indeed it is ironic that assuming the claims of the Kashmiris choosing India over Pakistan, in a plebiscite under the UNSC resolutions, are true, it is India that has doggedly refused to hold a plebiscite in Kashmir in violation of its commitment to the UNSC resolutions.

Why so much fear of a plebiscite then? Have your government agree to hold it and end the dispute.
 
Yes this article is old, but G-B package was announced only last week. Besides, the article mentions the history of how FANA areas got to be part of Pakistan and the invasion of tribals in Gilgit.

And also points out something that Indians refuse to accept -that there was an indigenous rebellion against the dictator Maharajah in various parts of Kashmir before the Tribals and Pakistan Army joined in.

In fact, I have pointed out several times how the Maharajah's brutal crackdown against the rebellion resulted in thousands of refugees into Pakistan and acted as a catalyst for the Tribal invasion.

The recent G-B package is only partly addressing the problems. Pakistani govt. should be commended that finally after 60+ years the people of G-B can elect their representatives and govern themselves. Something that other parts of J&K have been enjoying for most of the past 60 years with a few exceptions.
Lets not get self-righteous here. While you may argue that India granted autonomy in principle to IaK a long time ago, it is also true that the region has been under the occupation of over 500,000 Indian military and paramilitary forces, with tens of thousands (innocent civilians) killed, tortured and raped by those security forces.

I do agree that Pakistan should have extended autonomy a long time ago, ala Azad kashmir, but better late than never.
Although how autonomous it will be is still to be seen. Will the assemble vote to allow its people to freely move out of G-B without getting an exit visa from GoP? Will there be free and fair media functioning there? And most importantly will pro-independence groups allow to canvass and present their point of view to the people of G-B? or even in PaK?
Technically G-B is not part of Pakistan, it is disputed, and if the region is landlocked by Pakistan, should there not be some sort of 'visa' process in place to track people? I don't see harm in it either way personally, though I think it would be better from a PR PoV to not have any bureaucratic hurdles in movement.

Free and fair media is a relatively new phenomenon in all of Pakistan (thanks to Musharraf). Given time it will expand into G-B as well.

I don't see why the canvassing of pro-independence groups is 'most important'. They advocate a solution that is not endorsed in the UNSC resolutions which is what Pakistan's official position is based on.
 
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India in its effort to preserve the Kashmiri's and Kashmir from being diluted has passed Article 370 more.....Same cannot be said about Pakistan.... unless you can show me proof!!....

Besides we all know how easily one can be made "Kashmiri" in the sub-continent....forging papers/birth certificates/ID cards is very common.

So I throw it back to you....how can you prove to us that Pakistani Kashmiri's are actually "Kashmiri"...in fact I am going to go ahead and say that there is a good chance that the "Militant Mujahideen" fighting and infiltrating are not even Kashmiri....they could be Pushtun, Baloch, Punjabi......Do you have any proof except Pakistani propoganda reports to prove that the insurgency is actually "Kashmiri"?

In fact there ae no "Kashmiris" on the Pakistani side because they do not belong to the Kashmiri ethnic group and do not know how to speak the Kashmiri language. All the genuine Kashmiris are on the Indian side.

Nevertheless, it must be noted that even the non-Kashmiri speaking populations who are native to Pakistan occupied Kashmir have been diluted with immigrants from Punjab and NWFP. Obviously, such non-natives and their descendants should have no role in determining the future of Pakistan occupied Kashmir.
 
One more thing. Indian Kashmiris are free to go to any part of India and settle their with their business or anything. While no one in India can go to Kashmir and purchase land and settle there. Recent example was of "Amarnath Shrine where land was not given even though Amarnath is in J&K.
 
Interesting to note that whereas other political leaders prefer to move around "with protocol" in bullet proof cars, Abdulla doesn't as he knows he is popular enough in J&K

fullstory

Leh, Sep 2 (PTI) Union Minister Farooq Abdullah today went shopping for vegetables, particularly turnip, grown in Ladakh much to the surprise of the roadside vendors and onlookers.

Abdullah, who was accompanied by his Chief Minister son Omar, bought patatoes, cauliflower and apricot, besides turnip, which is famous in this part of the state for its sweet flavour.

The senior Abdullah, who was here to attend a conference on new and renewable energy, paid for the vegetables he purchased before he left the market.

In his usual style, he hugged a Lama and enquired about his well being and also posed with foreigners for a picture.
 
And also points out something that Indians refuse to accept -that there was an indigenous rebellion against the dictator Maharajah in various parts of Kashmir before the Tribals and Pakistan Army joined in.

In fact, I have pointed out several times how the Maharajah's brutal crackdown against the rebellion resulted in thousands of refugees into Pakistan and acted as a catalyst for the Tribal invasion.
Agreed that Dogras were autocratic just like any royals of that time. But instead of supporting the revolutionaries, and giving some status to the president of gilgit (Even as a politcal agent) Pakistani actions caused resentment. Later on, once Sheikh Abdulla was released from prision, and the tribals wrecked havoc not only among non-muslims but among the muslims as well, they moved to call in Indian support.

So we might say that initially the people of G-B and even Kashmir might have joined Kashmir if tribals hadn't entered. But their actions negated this. Infact, like one of the sepratist leaders said that Pakistan through its action pushed Kashmir into India's lap in 1948.

Lets not get self-righteous here. While you may argue that India granted autonomy in principle to IaK a long time ago, it is also true that the region has been under the occupation of over 500,000 Indian military and paramilitary forces, with tens of thousands (innocent civilians) killed, tortured and raped by those security forces.

I do agree that Pakistan should have extended autonomy a long time ago, ala Azad kashmir, but better late than never.
I apologies if I sounded like that. I know you will understand that communicating on forum is impersonal.

Regarding troops in J&K, it was only after 1988 that troop levels had to increased massively. Before that there was not even popular protest against India. While I agree that during the 90s gross violations of human rights occurred. In the past few years, its the militants who have outpaced human rights violations wether it be murder or rape or just plain terrorism. Any army, para-military or police officials involved are prosecuted and sentenced, including backdated cases.

Technically G-B is not part of Pakistan, it is disputed, and if the region is landlocked by Pakistan, should there not be some sort of 'visa' process in place to track people? I don't see harm in it either way personally, though I think it would be better from a PR PoV to not have any bureaucratic hurdles in movement.

Free and fair media is a relatively new phenomenon in all of Pakistan (thanks to Musharraf). Given time it will expand into G-B as well.
All good but I guess we will just have to wait and see.

I don't see why the canvassing of pro-independence groups is 'most important'. They advocate a solution that is not endorsed in the UNSC resolutions which is what Pakistan's official position is based on.

That is because that is one of the opinions held by a large section of the valley population. It might not be popular in Pakistan, but then again, any pro-independence Kashmirs have been discouraged arrested or killed.

While the viability of an Independent J&K is another discussion given the present geo-political scenario, not having that option means people of J&K (or at least some of them in the valley) are not given what they really want.

If Pakistani policy is still to deny the Independence option, then we can agree that resolution of Kashmir is not a moral dilemma but resolving geo-politcal and strategic concerns whether they be water issues or security and what Kashmirs want has nothing to do with it. This was the early policy adopted by Pakistan up until the 80s, it was only later that it was given a communal color to fan extremism.
 
@AM

The UNSC resolutions also required full withdrawal of Pakistani forces before the plebescite among other things, but I don't want to get into technicalities.

In India there only two main groups in J&K, Pro India mainly in the ladakh and jammu regions but with a significant presence in the valley and Pro independence mainly in the border towns of Sopore and Shopian. How can we reconcile the second with giving them the only alternative option of Pakistan wrt India?

The Plebescite requires at least a few years of relative peace and free and fair media and freedom of expression in ALL parts of J&K including those areas under Chinese control. G-B only recently got self-governance, hopefully media will come as well. In IaK, although violence has come down there is still prescnece of LeT and Hizb. These grops terrorise pro - India and even pro - Independence activists. Unless these groups are reigned in and violence drops close to zero, there will be no meaningful plebiscite

Atmosphere has to be peaceful so that all parties can advocate their viewpoint without fearing being bumped of by the next LeT hit squad
 
Kashmir will be independent, secular, says Yasin Malik

LAHORE: Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) Chairman Yasin Malik on Sunday said he saw Jammu and Kashmir as an independent and secular state in the future, a private TV channel reported. “I am not talking about Western secularism but pointing towards the secularism which is based on religious mysticism,” he explained. Malik asked India and Pakistan to resume peace talks and include the Kashmiri leadership in the process as well. He said all stakeholders, including mujahideen, should be included in the peace process. “We don’t want to listen to decisions about Jammu and Kashmir on television or radios,” he said, adding Pakistan and India were just “informing” Kashmiris about their decisions. daily times monitor

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 

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