Kargil war:a picture to change perception.

[ebrahym]

Pakistan retains some of territory it intruded into .... i.e "took territory" (albeit not very strategically important) so the war was not "status quo ant bellum"
also keep in mind the total number of Indian troops was larger than 30,000 that were involved in war and had complete aerial and political support while Pakistan forces numbered as per Indian Claims "1700 intruder"(which is also the non-official estimates of independent sources) these troops were no receiving political , logistic and aerial support.
and India was able to take back most of its territory only after Nawaz sharrif in US announced to recall its troops.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Aren't we still holding position on 5353?
If we are, we can use it in the war to cut off the strategic road, which is visible from our position.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I can see Delhi from top Pindi old buildings

 

[ebrahym]

Aren't we still holding position on 5353?
If we are, we can use it in the war to cut off the strategic road, which is visible from our position.

its not that easy ...... we can interdict the road i.e bomb it via artillery ..........
the point is Pakistan retains the territory it intruded into.

 

[YeBeWarned]

it was strategically brilliant move , but was foiled by our Dumb Politicians , with few mistakes from top Military Generals .

 

[ebrahym]

it was strategically brilliant move , but was foiled by our Dumb Politicians , with few mistakes from top Military Generals .

most pf the top military generals were unaware of the whole operation.there were a lot of mistakes, not just a few.
the biggest was logistics. Pakistani army literally stopped sending supplies and reinforcements because they had earlier said that these were militants and not our troops.

 

[loanranger]

Musharraf never listened to Nawaz anyway. So why did we withdraw when Nawaz announced. The kargil fiasco was heartbreaking and tragic. Why did we disown our own boys. Please Pak Army never do this again. Fight with full heart. Many will be surprised to know PAF did not even take part in kargil. While IAF bombed our boys unchallenged. As the current DG ISPR once said had we had the media of today we may not have committed the wrongs of the Past. Hinting to Pak Armys generals wrong doings in east Pakistan. Never again. Learn from history.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Pakistan retains some of territory it intruded into .... i.e "took territory" (albeit not very strategically important) so the war was not "status quo ant bellum"
also keep in mind the total number of Indian troops was larger than 30,000 that were involved in war and had complete aerial and political support while Pakistan forces numbered as per Indian Claims "1700 intruder"(which is also the non-official estimates of independent sources) these troops were no receiving political , logistic and aerial support.
and India was able to take back most of its territory only after Nawaz sharrif in US announced to recall its troops.

What is this stupidity?
@Irfan Baloch @Rashid Mahmood @Horus

 

[ebrahym]

What is this stupidity?
@Irfan Baloch @Rashid Mahmood @Horus

its called facts which have been twisted to infer Pakistan "lost" kargil war(which in its entirety was little more than skirmish)
also while Pakistan gave up or lost strategic mountains like toloing and jubar hills and tiger hill........ Pakistan retained some 5 to six mountain points not very deep into Indian controlled point but still strategic points on LOC or in case off point 5353 "inside indian territory"
in Wikipedia and other forums Kargil war is considered as "Indian victory" and territorial changes as "status quo ante bellum" (in common tongue-no change in territory)
both are false: Kargil war was atleast a "tactical victory" i.e lower number of troops and subsequent casualities than Indians if not strategic victory(as Pakistan gained control of keypoints on or beyond LOC.

while the victory cannot be given to any side in terms of "skirmish" (limited non aggressive military maneuver)
it has been usually said Inida "won" kargil war
all this stupidity says is that the facts prove otherwise.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

its called facts which have been twisted to infer Pakistan "lost" kargil war(which in its entirety was little more than skirmish)
also while Pakistan gave up or lost strategic mountains like toloing and jubar hills and tiger hill........ Pakistan retained some 5 to six mountain points not very deep into Indian controlled point but still strategic points on LOC or in case off point 5353 "inside indian territory"
in Wikipedia and other forums Kargil war is considered as "Indian victory" and territorial changes as "status quo ante bellum" (in common tongue-no change in territory)
both are false: Kargil war was atleast a "tactical victory" i.e lower number of troops and subsequent casualities than Indians if not strategic victory(as Pakistan gained control of keypoints on or beyond LOC.

while the victory cannot be given to any side in terms of "skirmish" (limited non aggressive military maneuver)
it has been usually said Inida "won" kargil war
all this stupidity says is that the facts prove otherwise.

Pakistan lost its credibility.The world instead of finding freedom fighters found PA.

 

[BATMAN]

Aren't we still holding position on 5353?
If we are, we can use it in the war to cut off the strategic road, which is visible from our position.

No we can't any more. Immediately after Kargil war foreign military experts visited the area on indian side, including US & Israel. They prepared a comprehensive defense plans for Indian army, part of it was to dig tunnels. Therefore all the places where Indian road was exposed to Pakistani firing they built tunnels with assistance of western allies.

Pakistan had great opportunity on 27th Feb. to create disorder in Indian ranks but than modi would have lost elections.... which was not part of western game plan.

 

[Samlee]

Pakistan retains some of territory it intruded into .... i.e "took territory" (albeit not very strategically important) so the war was not "status quo ant bellum"
also keep in mind the total number of Indian troops was larger than 30,000 that were involved in war and had complete aerial and political support while Pakistan forces numbered as per Indian Claims "1700 intruder"(which is also the non-official estimates of independent sources) these troops were no receiving political , logistic and aerial support.
and India was able to take back most of its territory only after Nawaz sharrif in US announced to recall its troops.

Pakistan Actually Got Six Peaks This Was Return For Siachen

 

[ebrahym]

Pakistan lost its credibility.The world instead of finding freedom fighters found PA.

that is true

No we can't any more. Immediately after Kargil war foreign military experts visited the area on indian side, including US & Israel. They prepared a comprehensive defense plans for Indian army, part of it was to dig tunnels. Therefore all the places where Indian road was exposed to Pakistani firing they built tunnels with assistance of western allies.

Pakistan had great opportunity on 27th Feb. to create disorder in Indian ranks but than modi would have lost elections.... which was not part of western game plan.

yes
that was the conclusion in 2002 standoff when Pakisan was unable to direct artillery fire to drass road
however its th age of drones we dont need to have our observers exposed anymore.

Pakistan Actually Got Six Peaks This Was Return For Siachen

no it was not
Pakistan's plan were not known at that time
and quite honestly there are not known today as well
it was a complete blunder and an operation to fail from very beginning
it was a completely stupid operation with no set target in mind.....if it was for siachen then the focus shold have been more on chorbat la and jubar hills i.e the batalik sector than in kargil and tiger hill.

despite all this bravery of NLI and skills of Pakistan artillery were quite remarkable
especially our anti air prowess actually kept IAF out of war and even at higher altitude they were largely ineffective ........ the only effect they had was psychological

 

[Sine Nomine]

despite all this bravery of NLI and skills of Pakistan artillery were quite remarkable
especially our anti air prowess actually kept IAF out of war and even at higher altitude they were largely ineffective ........ the only effect they had was psychological

It was IAF which pushed PA back not IA.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

Pakistan retains some of territory it intruded into .... i.e "took territory" (albeit not very strategically important) so the war was not "status quo ant bellum"
also keep in mind the total number of Indian troops was larger than 30,000 that were involved in war and had complete aerial and political support while Pakistan forces numbered as per Indian Claims "1700 intruder"(which is also the non-official estimates of independent sources) these troops were no receiving political , logistic and aerial support.
and India was able to take back most of its territory only after Nawaz sharrif in US announced to recall its troops.

Indian has captured far more valuable Point 5310 which is located on the Pakistani side of LoC.

Plus Point 5353 is surronded by 3 Indian mountains.

Which is why if you check latest Planetlabs sat images of the peak you will see that while there are Indian or Pakistani posts in all the peaks in the area but Point 5353 is empty without any post.