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Karachi: Zulfiqar Mirza's statement triggers another round of violence

What ever I am talking are historical facts. Quota systems for government jobs are common occurrence around the world, even in first world countries. This is to guarantee balance in government employment especially for those from improvised regions. 100% merit is purely applied in private sector and Pakistan is no exception. Nobody kept mohajirs away from armed forces, my mamoo served next to your altaf bhai in 1971 war. He went to continue his career in baloch regiment while your altaf bhai was rounded up as suspicious. Because he took a keen interest in mukhti bahni propaganda and expressed to his peers the desire to rise like a leader and have his own millitia.

Quota system came much later on due to illegal immigration during 50-60's. People who came with proper repatriation documents were naturalized as per legal means and had domiciles from the respective provinces they settled into. The illegal immigrants used shoddy means to acquire passports. Many of them still have their Indian passports stacked somewhere in archives. I recommend you to blow the dust on some and check the Pakistani visit visa date-stamp. What kind of bigoted argument you are offering that others should be killed. Have you evaluated the logic of your statements?? You are following the MQM practice, if one cannot debate he should spoil it for others.




What is the co-relation between %% of gdp being contributed from Karachi versus someone being rich or poor. You are using typical pro-mqm argument tactics of mixing two issues to create a third one. The question here is not that of rich and poor. The question here is of busting myths, and thanks you busted one of your own today that migrants came with massive wealth and build fishing village into a industrial hub. Quota system needs to be enforced to guarantee employment for improvised areas. Otherwise those areas will have no means of betterment. This is a common practice around the world. Quota system only applies for low-status jobs not on those with require specialized knowledge or experience. Why are are these supposed academically mightier people fighting for?? And what kind of merit you are talking about low-status jobs?? Are you going to award a Phd degree in garbage cleaning skills?

Not sure the reason why they will remain poor. I know an MQM operative in Jeddah for past 11 years. I have never seen him holding any kind of employment but he buys a new Prado each year and thanks his pir altaf bhai.



I grew up in Saudi Arabia, no jamatis here.
And secondly, jamat power brokers in Karachi are also urdu speaking migrants, much like pro-MQM are and the same people MQM claims to protect rights of. Then why this two dimensional animosity?
Thirdly, I know jamat from inside as much as I know MQM and your Mustafa Kamal bhai. I am anti-Jamat. Dig my posts in other threads, will ya?
Mind you, Kamal really knows how to sober up when placed in the right gathering. He wont dare talk his party gibberish even when cornered he will say "Yeh sab siyasat ka khel hai" People like you are just party political fodder and are fed what you please to hear. I wish you had the IQ to rise above bogus perceptions and actually see into the heads of leaders you adore day and night.

Instead of engaging in civil debate and taking the challenge to answer the question, you are making personal attacks and calling names..wah wah..what a justice..why don't you sit down, take time to at-least bring some facts to refute my question??

First your co-sympathist came and said I should vote for mullah umar. Now you come and say all non-punjabis should be killed..

are we playing Koun bane ga biggotiare?

SMR I am not saying you are a traitor or anti-Pakistan. People migrate over time and education makes a person excel from nothing to the heights of worldly achievements. Barak Obama is a shining example of that. Its high time we bury the past and you bury your party propaganda and see the situation as a Pakistani, as the son of this land and you will realize whose vote banks fills up faster with speeches of hate.

In the 90's some of my Dad friends used to pass by and drop Altaf video cassettes. In the beginning, we were all like supportive, Ahh bechare but then it became evident that it was only an entertainment show nothing else.

In this regards, I would respect Nawaz Shariff a lot - he might be stupid in politics but he had really put his constituencies on an immense push of education. Punjabis who used to put their children as "chota" in transport trucks or mechanics workshops are now vying by every means to educate their children. I myself witness the "Punjabi revolution" in gulf when children of absolutely illiterate labor class people are turning out to be renowned architects, engineers, business men , researchers etc etc.


They did not sit and beg "wasail nahe hai". Instead they went to great lengths for creating the resources they needed.

And to please your jamati appetite, here is your pir trying to please the very same jamaits


I doubt if your adversary is really mentally able to digest all these lengthy posts and facts but thanks for answering on my behalf anyway :)
 
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What ever I am talking are historical facts. Quota systems for government jobs are common occurrence around the world, even in first world countries. This is to guarantee balance in government employment especially for those from improvised regions. 100% merit is purely applied in private sector and Pakistan is no exception. Nobody kept mohajirs away from armed forces, my mamoo served next to your altaf bhai in 1971 war. He went to continue his career in baloch regiment while your altaf bhai was rounded up as suspicious. Because he took a keen interest in mukhti bahni propaganda and expressed to his peers the desire to rise like a leader and have his own millitia.

The problem is that you rely upon your own sources like your mamoo, chacha, taaya etc.. Well your mamoo is exception like my dad and other family members who were / are part of armed forces. But they themselves say about the discrimination towards urdu speakers. Whatever Altaf has done and is doing, why didn’t they take any action against him. Don’t you think there were some people who allowed him flourished with the aim to achieve their own objectives? Apart from his every negativities, he is much appreciated and million of people are after him. You may argue that these people are forced to attend his speeches, while you ignore that these people had always the option to join Haqiqi.

Quota system came much later on due to illegal immigration during 50-60's. People who came with proper repatriation documents were naturalized as per legal means and had domiciles from the respective provinces they settled into. The illegal immigrants used shoddy means to acquire passports. Many of them still have their Indian passports stacked somewhere in archives. I recommend you to blow the dust on some and check the Pakistani visit visa date-stamp. What kind of bigoted argument you are offering that others should be killed. Have you evaluated the logic of your statements?? You are following the MQM practice, if one cannot debate he should spoil it for others.

Well if you look at the present leadership of MQM, you will hardly find anyone who was born in india… its been 63 years now. I am not aware which illegal immigrants you are talking about, was there any timeline for muslims for going to Pakistan? Whom do you call legal immigrants? 1947 when Pakistan came into being, and people continued to migrate even after 1947. However, if the illegal immigrants somehow managed to get the illegal citizenship / domiciles, then the option for their verification is always open and can be done at any time.
Regarding my statement that kill rest of the people was in context of your co-supporter’s baseless argument that Pakistan was idea of Punjabi. In response to that, I said, does that give you right to kill anyone?

With regard to the quota system, I never appreciate / support any system which is meant to deprive the basis rights. Take an example of a medical student, I have personally met few persons victims of quota system, that they were not able to get admission in medical colleges despite of having good percentages, but a person having much low marks was able to get the admission. Is this justified? Well the supporters of quota system say what you have said. But just tell me, why not focus on establishing new educational institutions in rural areas rather than sending the people to urban areas. A person already knows ooh, why to worry, thanks to quota system, I ll get admission / jobs easily. These feudal instead of spending money on education, will start supporting quota system. Even, this quota system is against the Islamic laws wherein justice for everyone prevails so the motives behind the quota system might be noble but it cannot be referred as justice.

What is the co-relation between %% of gdp being contributed from Karachi versus someone being rich or poor. You are using typical pro-mqm argument tactics of mixing two issues to create a third one. The question here is not that of rich and poor. The question here is of busting myths, and thanks you busted one of your own today that migrants came with massive wealth and build fishing village into a industrial hub. Quota system needs to be enforced to guarantee employment for improvised areas. Otherwise those areas will have no means of betterment. This is a common practice around the world. Quota system only applies for low-status jobs not on those with require specialized knowledge or experience. Why are are these supposed academically mightier people fighting for?? And what kind of merit you are talking about low-status jobs?? Are you going to award a Phd degree in garbage cleaning skills?
Since you jumped into to save your supporter’s argument, well if you have read his post as well, that might have helped you to understand the context of my post. He was saying what ZM has said that these migrants were ‘bhookay nangay log’ and all the stories of their wealth is false. In response thereto, I just that these bhookay nangay log have managed to contribute massively towards economy of Pakistan. I have never supported and will never support the lame quota system, which allows the few people to embezzle the funds allocated for education, they will keep pocketing them as long as quota system is there. We must give this quota system and persons should be appointed / inducted if they are ‘capable’ of doing something. Well you gave example of private sector where merit system is strictly followed. You can see the and compare the financial results of private and public organizations. Pak Railways is biggest and hot example of now.

Not sure the reason why they will remain poor. I know an MQM operative in Jeddah for past 11 years. I have never seen him holding any kind of employment but he buys a new Prado each year and thanks his pir altaf bhai.
The status of living of every parliamentarian do not corroborate with their declared wealth. So MQM is no exception. I am not advocating them but just telling you that you should not apply double or even triple standards base on you pre-determined thoughts / mindset.

I grew up in Saudi Arabia, no jamatis here.
And secondly, jamat power brokers in Karachi are also urdu speaking migrants, much like pro-MQM are and the same people MQM claims to protect rights of. Then why this two dimensional animosity?
Thirdly, I know jamat from inside as much as I know MQM and your Mustafa Kamal bhai. I am anti-Jamat. Dig my posts in other threads, will ya?
Mind you, Kamal really knows how to sober up when placed in the right gathering. He wont dare talk his party gibberish even when cornered he will say "Yeh sab siyasat ka khel hai" People like you are just party political fodder and are fed what you please to hear. I wish you had the IQ to rise above bogus perceptions and actually see into the heads of leaders you adore day and night.
The problem starts here, as you grew up in SA, and even know MQM / Jamaat more than anyone else. Apart from every thing about Mustafa Kamal, I would love to see him as Mayor of Karachi again and again, Mr. Nematullah will be the 2nd option.

Instead of engaging in civil debate and taking the challenge to answer the question, you are making personal attacks and calling names..wah wah..what a justice..why don't you sit down, take time to at-least bring some facts to refute my question??

First your co-sympathist came and said I should vote for mullah umar. Now you come and say all non-punjabis should be killed..

are we playing Koun bane ga biggotiare?
I am sorry, as far as I know I didn’t call names of anyone. Even I have been facing harsh statements from others. Whatever you ask have already been answered, spare some time dig the thread. Regarding non-Punjabis I have already explained above.

SMR I am not saying you are a traitor or anti-Pakistan. People migrate over time and education makes a person excel from nothing to the heights of worldly achievements. Barak Obama is a shining example of that. Its high time we bury the past and you bury your party propaganda and see the situation as a Pakistani, as the son of this land and you will realize whose vote banks fills up faster with speeches of hate.
Thanks for the statement. And no one has right to call anyone ‘traitor’. Barak Obama is good example to quote, but as long as we do not have presidential system, those revolutions will remain dream. The local govt. system was an attempt toward that but has been ruined by feudal / waderas back to Commissioner system, now a landlord from rural areas of sindh, (by getting degrees / positions through bless of quota system) will be here to rule us.

In the 90's some of my Dad friends used to pass by and drop Altaf video cassettes. In the beginning, we were all like supportive, Ahh bechare but then it became evident that it was only an entertainment show nothing else.
Unsupported claim, so cannot comment. I personally know many things about our beloved ‘CJ’, but will never say.
In this regards, I would respect Nawaz Shariff a lot - he might be stupid in politics but he had really put his constituencies on an immense push of education. Punjabis who used to put their children as "chota" in transport trucks or mechanics workshops are now vying by every means to educate their children. I myself witness the "Punjabi revolution" in gulf when children of absolutely illiterate labor class people are turning out to be renowned architects, engineers, business men , researchers etc etc.


They did not sit and beg "wasail nahe hai". Instead they went to great lengths for creating the resources they needed.
Well…. Nawaz Sharif, bhai iss ko to rehnay hi do… Beside I also like Nawaz Sharif, merely because of the fact that he has dare to do danda to the establishment. I know these Sharif Brothers very well… Their status / standard of living in no way matches with their declared wealth. Even I pay tax more than Mr. Nawaz Sharif.

And to please your jamati appetite, here is your pir trying to please the very same jamaits


Cannot see the video right now due to connectivity problem as I am not in Karachi. Half of the post I have typed while I was on motorway. :P.

Anyways summing up, I am not saying that MQM consist saints, and it is free from militant element, My family members used to be in ISI / MI, they know these people better than anyone. But for Karachi violence MQM is not and cannot be held responsible alone. MQM, PPP, ANP are same type parties. Militancy, badmaashi main PHD ki huee hai teenon nay, and Karachi riots are pre planned, and MQM, PPP, ANP are being used for the same and they deliberately getting used themselves to settle their personal scores against each other.
 
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MQM Supporters:


what steps are being taken by the party and the leader of the party to demonstrate that it is NOT an ethnic party; rather they have a nationalist agenda instead of regional (Karachi-focused) one?


I am aware about election turnout in the AJ&K region
 
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my policy is simple...i try to avoid ethnicity talks altogether!!!!

but to answer your question -- if Mohajirs are considered Sindhis (which, being residents of Sindh that makes it fair enough) -- then they represent Sindhis....though its confusing since indigenous Sindhis (from peasants to land-owners -- all the spectrums) seem to support PPP

these Goddam political parties are corrupt, they are apathetic, feudal, run like mafias --- and worst of all, some of their members are trying to promote ethnic politics and that is not a good thing........that is TREASON
 
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my policy is simple...i try to avoid ethnicity talks altogether!!!!

but to answer your question -- if Mohajirs are considered Sindhis (which, being residents of Sindh that makes it fair enough) -- then they represent Sindhis....though its confusing since indigenous Sindhis (from peasants to land-owners -- all the spectrums) seem to support PPP

these Goddam political parties are corrupt, they are apathetic, feudal, run like mafias --- and worst of all, some of their members are trying to promote ethnic politics and that is not a good thing........that is TREASON

by using mohajir word, arnt you being racist here in the first place??
 
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by using mohajir word, arnt you being racist here in the first place??

Uhhh no.....it isnt racist if you know what the word means.


and that brings me back to ''my policy''


I try to avoid ethnicity talks altogether


by the way, having settled in Pakistan; working in Pakistan; living in Pakistan; breathing Pakistani air and speaking Pakistani national language ---- their loyalty should not be brought into question. That is inappropriate talks. (leave religion even from this conversation)



didnt MQM (in the past) used to stand for ''Mohajir Qaumi Movement'' ??? So was that a racist name the ''party'' had adopted?
 
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by using mohajir word, arnt you being racist here in the first place??
No he isn't. And that was why I asked him that question in the first place.

Th muhaajureen from India (let's even say those not from East Punjab or Gujarat or Rajputana, since they are not called muhajirs by these two-tongued nationalists) were not one race/ethnicity, and not even a single-language monolith.

my policy is simple...i try to avoid ethnicity talks altogether!!!!
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Not a good policy these days particularly IMO. We need balanced people like you to strike some sense into the hate-mongers.




...
but to answer your question -- if Mohajirs are considered Sindhis (which, being residents of Sindh that makes it fair enough) -- then they represent Sindhis....though its confusing since indigenous Sindhis (from peasants to land-owners -- all the spectrums) seem to support PPP
...
That is the irony of it. There is massive qaum-parasti/nationalism among the local people resting on an anti-Pakistan foundation, and mohajiriin of Sindh sort of represent Pakistan locally. There are several other reasons as well. They have no 'backing' being unintegrated into the tribal badla system and can be bullied easily.

You have no idea how pervasive is anti-Pakistanism in Pakistan. Let's talk of identity. Ask any Sindhi how he identifies himself and the answer is invariably "Maan Sindhi aahyaan", close to home you'd get the reply "Za Pukhtun yam" but the poor son-of-the-son-of-a-muhaajir invariably says "I'm a Pakistani". That is an inflammatory statement in much of Pakistan. Fine, I totally understand that for many people being a Sindhi/Punjabi/Pukhtun is not antagonistic to being a Pakistani. But for many it is. The latter also carry guns and believe 'the other' can be killed without remorse.

Just do one little experiment: you must have read Urdu and English newspapers from Pakistan. Now read one Sindhi one. You'll find the answer therein.
 
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noo i wouldnt lose too much hope bro....Maybe its just the people i hang around -- but there is very much a sense of nation-hood.

if we had this conversation in 1970s --- i would be more pessimistic. but those were days when people like Z.A. Bhutto believed that the only way to solve political problems (e.g. Baloch insurgency) was only through iron fisted tactics ---which was a totally failed strategy on his part and a very dangerous one


my village is barely 15 kilometers from border with Afghanistan......the people identify themselves as Pakistani Pakhtuns -- and that is despite the fact that some of them have land or financial interests on both sides of the border :)
 
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Well I have a suggestion, If Mohajirs wants to shrug off the stigma of association with MQM and are keen to recover from their embarssment, they should form a Justice and Development Party founded on solid idealogical principles and not one reprsenting MQM thugs. That will give them a political voice as well clear their image which has been tarnished by MQM. However, I am not sure if Altaf Bhai will tolerate the idea so again it will be one group of mohajrs against other.
 
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That is the irony of it. There is massive qaum-parasti/nationalism among the local people resting on an anti-Pakistan foundation, and mohajiriin of Sindh sort of represent Pakistan locally. There are several other reasons as well. They have no 'backing' being unintegrated into the tribal badla system and can be bullied easily.

You have no idea how pervasive is anti-Pakistanism in Pakistan. Let's talk of identity. Ask any Sindhi how he identifies himself and the answer is invariably "Maan Sindhi aahyaan", close to home you'd get the reply "Za Pukhtun yam" but the poor son-of-the-son-of-a-muhaajir invariably says "I'm a Pakistani". That is an inflammatory statement in much of Pakistan. Fine, I totally understand that for many people being a Sindhi/Punjabi/Pukhtun is not antagonistic to being a Pakistani. But for many it is. The latter also carry guns and believe 'the other' can be killed without remorse.

Just do one little experiment: you must have read Urdu and English newspapers from Pakistan. Now read one Sindhi one. You'll find the answer therein.



Why have you left out Punajabis, or it is only Pathans and Sindhis who still need to prove their loyalty to Pakistan?

These people are Sindhis and Pathans for thousands of years and you are expecting them to give up their age-old identity without any reason - they are proud of their ethnic identities but it still doesn't mean that they are not patriotic Pakistanis. Muhajirs are recent immigrants and hardly a monolith people but they still have created a mythological ethnic identity within few decades which is based upon their common Urdu language, therefore they usually identify themselves as being Muhajirs, Hindustanis or just Urdu-Speakers. If you meet a Pakistani first time and ask him whether he is a Punjabi, what would be his answer if that person turned out to be a Mohajir?
 
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^Porus. Does an example have to include all permutations and possibilities? Fine, include the Punjabis too. But the problem you'd get is that a lot of them do see themselves as Pakistanis first and Punjabis second, so that wouldn't help my argument, and if you noticed the argument was limited to the Sindh sarzameen and I gave AZ one outside one he could easily recognize.

And if you could pay more attention, I have already explained that composite identities need not be antagonistic. I can be a Pakistani and a Urdugo and a Sindhi and a man all at the same time. Do you see a problem with that? Why? Are you a petty nationalist?
 
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MQM "ethical" standing on waderas and fedulaism!
Kursi ke liye sab kuch jayez hai!
Soon you will hear slogans from MQM:
Wadera maan ke sachey! hahaha
 
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cartoon1.jpg
 
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No he isn't. And that was why I asked him that question in the first place.

Th muhaajureen from India (let's even say those not from East Punjab or Gujarat or Rajputana, since they are not called muhajirs by these two-tongued nationalists) were not one race/ethnicity, and not even a single-language monolith.


Not a good policy these days particularly IMO. We need balanced people like you to strike some sense into the hate-mongers.





That is the irony of it. There is massive qaum-parasti/nationalism among the local people resting on an anti-Pakistan foundation, and mohajiriin of Sindh sort of represent Pakistan locally. There are several other reasons as well. They have no 'backing' being unintegrated into the tribal badla system and can be bullied easily.

You have no idea how pervasive is anti-Pakistanism in Pakistan. Let's talk of identity. Ask any Sindhi how he identifies himself and the answer is invariably "Maan Sindhi aahyaan", close to home you'd get the reply "Za Pukhtun yam" but the poor son-of-the-son-of-a-muhaajir invariably says "I'm a Pakistani". That is an inflammatory statement in much of Pakistan. Fine, I totally understand that for many people being a Sindhi/Punjabi/Pukhtun is not antagonistic to being a Pakistani. But for many it is. The latter also carry guns and believe 'the other' can be killed without remorse.

Just do one little experiment: you must have read Urdu and English newspapers from Pakistan. Now read one Sindhi one. You'll find the answer therein.

Wow .. what load of rubbish.. have you also spoken to these poor sons-of-muhajirs who always ask - are you from Sindh? without realizing that Karachi is part of of Sindh too ..

Also, how many muhajirs have integrated in Sindh? How many of these poor sons speak Sindhi? Perhaps you should do this experiment before advocating your hatred any further ... shame on you
 
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