JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 1]

[fatman17]

i thought we were discussing the JF-17 here! what gives!

 

[Keysersoze]

I dont think China will take JF-17. I think PLAAF is looking to J-10 and J-11 to replace ageing j-7s.

Dude check out the numbers of J-7's that might need replacing ~500 or so. Thats roughly $20 billion+

 

[Keysersoze]

i thought we were discussing the JF-17 here! what gives!

Yeah sorry I was just using the tanks as a example. I doubt the J-10 and J-11 will replace all the older aircraft in the PLAAF simply cost ineffective.

 

[PakSniper]

I read in the Pakistani paper, during the summer, where it said 18 planes will be built in the initial stages, and half of that will go to Pakistan and China. As Key's and other people on PakDef have been saying it's to much money even for China to replace every old plane with J-10s, etc, so "Yes" their will be some more orders from China, and remember Pakistan itself has not fully inducted them and tests are still going on! So have patience instead of wet dreams.

SUP KEY'S LONG TIME NO SEE

 

[su-47]

Dude check out the numbers of J-7's that might need replacing ~500 or so. Thats roughly $20 billion+

Thats assuming that China will replace every J-7. They might decide to cut down numbers and focus on quality. It will be more prudent to replace 500 J-7s with 300 Flankers than with 500 JF-17s

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Dude check out the numbers of J-7's that might need replacing ~500 or so. Thats roughly $20 billion+

You're looking at a 1 to 1 replacement. If they go by history, ie the J6s, it may very well be 1 to 3-4 replacement.

 

[Keysersoze]

You're looking at a 1 to 1 replacement. If they go by history, ie the J6s, it may very well be 1 to 3-4 replacement.

Possibly, but I have a feeling that some FC-1's will still make it in there.

 

[con]

The problem is JF-17 does not provide any further improvement to PLAAF on it's existing abilities.
JF-17 was made for PAF to give it a BVR capabilities.
At 3.5 -4 tonne load out,it is not a bomb truck either. Why would PLAAF replace it's inventory with a "primary air-to-air" aircraft?

 

[Sena Lee]

I dont think China will take JF-17. I think PLAAF is looking to J-10 and J-11 to replace ageing j-7s.

The J-10 and J-11 would ofcourse be the main backbone of the PLAAF but we would need to consider the costs and roles.

J-10 and J-11 without doubt would be superior than the FC-1, but the FC-1 is a solid simple fighter which is useful for some roles and better suited than to use the J-10 and J-11.

Another important factor is the cost, it is cheaper to make and replace. China's goal of modernisation is a smart one, China wants to modernise is a smart way. This would ofcourse modernising cost effectively aswell as purpose and requirements.

China's inventory of old fighters is quite large and modernising them takes time. If China replaces them with J-10 and J-11, this would bring a heavy cost to China.

One thing is for sure, China's future fleet would consist of the J-10, J-11, J-XX and future aquirements and productions. China would also keep a small squadrons of FC-1's.

 

[blain2]

The problem is JF-17 does not provide any further improvement to PLAAF on it's existing abilities.
JF-17 was made for PAF to give it a BVR capabilities.
At 3.5 -4 tonne load out,it is not a bomb truck either. Why would PLAAF replace it's inventory with a "primary air-to-air" aircraft?

Because unlike what you are saying, JF-17 is not an air-to-air aircraft only. Its as Multirole as PAF F-16s to put it succinctly which is something (A Multi-role platform) that PLAAF do not currently have (even the Multi-role capabilities of J-11 and J-10 are not fully operational) whereas PAF's requirement for JF-17 include the ability to deliver PGMs along with SRAAMs and WVRAAMs. The aircraft is cheap compared to J-10 and J-11 (especially J-11). A force of 150 JF-17s in the PLAAF provides more effective capabilities than the entire fleet of J-6/7s in the PLAAF.

I can very easily provide the road-map matrix of weapons capabilities to be introduced on the JF-17 and rest assured that JF-17 provides considerable enhancements to PLAAF that it does not have even with J-10 or J-11 currently.

 

[con]

Because unlike what you are saying, JF-17 is not an air-to-air aircraft only. Its as Multirole as PAF F-16s to put it succinctly which is something (A Multi-role platform) that PLAAF do not currently have (even the Multi-role capabilities of J-11 and J-10 are not fully operational) whereas PAF's requirement for JF-17 include the ability to deliver PGMs along with SRAAMs and WVRAAMs. The aircraft is cheap compared to J-10 and J-11 (especially J-11). A force of 150 JF-17s in the PLAAF provides more effective capabilities than the entire fleet of J-6/7s in the PLAAF.

I can very easily provide the road-map matrix of weapons capabilities to be introduced on the JF-17 and rest assured that JF-17 provides considerable enhancements to PLAAF that it does not have even with J-10 or J-11 currently.

Are you saying PLAAF does not have a multi-role aircraft,but would make JF-17 multi-role capabilities operational first?
Sorry difficult to believe. There is nothing more to to develop on J-11. They are license manufactured. They are multi-role aircraft. Chinese will not be mass producing them if it not able to obtain FOC multi-role capabilities.

150 J-17 might be better than J-6/J-7,but how better? Is it worth replacing it with another type which other than being a new air-frame and probably new radar, nothing more. It is the need of PAF to "super upgrade" JF-17,not PLAAF. If needed it is cheaper and faster for PLAAF to upgrade it aircrafts with new radars/avonics than induct a new type.

Please dont consider what PAF does/needs should be okay/same for PLAAF as well. At 3.5 tonne load out it is very lighter for PLAAF's need. Remember PLAAF ..is PLA Airforce. PLA expects it to carry out substantial amount of air artillery job. Why did China choose AL-31 engine for J-10 and not RD-33/93?

JF-17 from day one was meant for PAF to obtain BVR capabilities. China sure see an export potential with this aircraft. It just doesn't make sense for PLAAF to induct similar gen aircraft(J-10 & J-17) at the same time.Add to this J-11 production as well. 3 aircraft types?

 

[Officer of Engineers]

The PLAAF will commit this bird to its inventory. If the PLA is willing to sacrifice 30,000 men to teach a lesson, then the induction of a less worthy bird in support of an ally is a no brainer. The PLAAF may hate this bird with a passion but to keep Pakistan fully armed and determined is worth far more than the 150 birds the PLAAF is committed to buy.

 

[Keysersoze]

The PLAAF will commit this bird to its inventory. If the PLA is willing to sacrifice 30,000 men to teach a lesson, then the induction of a less worthy bird in support of an ally is a no brainer. The PLAAF may hate this bird with a passion but to keep Pakistan fully armed and determined is worth far more than the 150 birds the PLAAF is committed to buy.

Well remember that the USAF didn't want the F-16 either, And I think you are underestimating it usefulness.

 

[EagleEyes]

The PLAAF will commit this bird to its inventory. If the PLA is willing to sacrifice 30,000 men to teach a lesson, then the induction of a less worthy bird in support of an ally is a no brainer. The PLAAF may hate this bird with a passion but to keep Pakistan fully armed and determined is worth far more than the 150 birds the PLAAF is committed to buy.

Why would PLAAF hate JF-17?

As far as i know Pakistani JF-17 will be far more advanced than anything China will have in the category.

FC-1 (Chinese configuration) can of course be third rated in terms of the west, but it suits their needs, and perfectly meets their requirements.

I need to know what is NOT meeting the PLAAF requirements. Fighter planes dont work like tanks.

 

[Neo]

Webby i too havnt read anything that stated PLAAF was to induct JF-17. When there is so much news going around abt PAF getting them, why the same enthusiasm isnt mentioned wrt PLAAF?

PLAAF is commited to FC-1 JV by contract, atleast 150 jets will be built for China. Currently
PLAAF is inducting three different types of planes, FC-1, J-10 and J-11 to replace ageing fleet of 5.000+ museaumpieces. Even if the future combat strength is cut to 25% China will need 1250 fighter jets.

FC-1 may not come in numbers but it will definately serve PLAAF for couple of reasons:

- Political will
- Cheap and potent alternative to replace J-6/J-7 variants
- Testbed for future systems
- PR purpose as it will sell better when in service with PLAAF and PAF
- Export potential