JASDF - Japan releases images of first F-35

[Beast]

even J21 was once in a prototype stage
i would rather over estimate my enemy rather than under estimating them
but yes in my debates i've always managed that Japan do poses but not a very big threat to china

J-20 is already not just prototype. The problem is X-2 haven even reaches prototype stage. Japan aviation is not as advance as you all think. Many people think Japan aviation is advance just becos of their consumer electronic products?

Many of their aviation project heavily depends on american assist. Without US assist, many will not materialized. Russian has not build much consumer electronic yet anybody could doubt Russia aviation?

Their C-2 plane started earlier than China Y-20 and yet China commission Y-20 while Japan C-2 still under testing..

 

[ebrahym]

J-20 is already not just prototype. The problem is X-2 haven even reaches prototype stage. Japan aviation is not as advance as you all think. Many people think Japan aviation is advance just becos of their consumer electronic products?

Many of their aviation project heavily depends on american assist. Without US assist, many will not materialized. Russian has not build much consumer electronic yet anybody could doubt Russia aviation?

Their C-2 plane started earlier than China Y-20 and yet China commission Y-20 while Japan C-2 still under testing..

yes that is a fact
better electronics but not better jets

 

[BoQ77]

J-20 is already not just prototype. The problem is X-2 haven even reaches prototype stage. Japan aviation is not as advance as you all think. Many people think Japan aviation is advance just becos of their consumer electronic products?

Many of their aviation project heavily depends on american assist. Without US assist, many will not materialized. Russian has not build much consumer electronic yet anybody could doubt Russia aviation?

Their C-2 plane started earlier than China Y-20 and yet China commission Y-20 while Japan C-2 still under testing..

Btw, Japan domestically designed and manufactured twin jet-engine C-1 back to 1970 including engines.
That's the reason C-2 could enter slowly. @ebrahym

Another model Kawasaki P-1 jet already in service. Mentioned that the jet engines made by IHI
Introduced in 2013, but now there're 33 in service, 60 in ordered. Wow

 

[Beast]

Btw, Japan domestically designed and manufactured twin jet-engine C-1 back to 1970 including engines.
That's the reason C-2 could enter slowly. @ebrahym

Another model Kawasaki P-1 jet already in service. Mentioned that the jet engines made by IHI
Introduced in 2013, but now there're 33 in service, 60 in ordered. Wow

I wished you can be more forecoming of your info. Without revealling more, ordinary reader will be easily misled by your post.

C-1 is flying an american license engine. JT8D by Pratt Whittney. Make in Japan but I can be sure many crititcal parts are still import from USA. Just ask Turkey who has licensed build many F-100 engine but until now still couldn't properly desing their own modern turbofan engine.

As for P-1, do you know why it needs 4 engines despite weighting less than 100tons? Becos the turbofan has very low thrust to weight power and is short of the so being called modern turbofan. F-7 engines make by Japan is not something impressive. It is even inferior to D-30KP2 engines thrust to weight ratio.

It looks nothing impressive if you ask me compare to modern aviation standard.

 

[Daniel808]

Their C-2 plane started earlier than China Y-20 and yet China commission Y-20 while Japan C-2 still under testing..

Yes, that's tell us many things, bro

 

[BoQ77]

C-1 is flying an american license engine. JT8D by Pratt Whittney. Make in Japan but I can be sure many crititcal parts are still import from USA. ....

As for P-1, do you know why it needs 4 engines despite weighting less than 100tons? Becos the turbofan has very low thrust to weight power and is short of the so being called modern turbofan. F-7 engines make by Japan is not something impressive. It is even inferior to D-30KP2 engines thrust to weight ratio.

Name any transport or MPA aircraft of China with domestic impressive turbofan engines please.

 

[Beast]

Name any transport or MPA aircraft of China with domestic impressive turbofan engines please.

Why must it be turbofan? We want greater loiter time and range. MPA need not fly very fast. As if submarine can outrun MPA?

100% everything made in China.

 

[BoQ77]

Okay, you found NONE.
Let talk about thrust to weight of F7 and D-30 engine.

Kawasaki manufactured over 100 turboprop engine P-3C
now they have been replacing P-3C by turbofan powered P-1, as P-3C become obsolete. and you just start to achieve the same level as P-3C

and they may soon introduce the jet airliner based on P-1 with twin engine, 150 seaters

 

[gambit]

As for P-1, do you know why it needs 4 engines despite weighting less than 100tons? Becos the turbofan has very low thrust to weight power and is short of the so being called modern turbofan. F-7 engines make by Japan is not something impressive. It is even inferior to D-30KP2 engines thrust to weight ratio.

This is why you PDF Chinese should stay out of technical issues.

The IHI F7 is a high bypass turbofan and for an indigenous effort, it is an impressive engine. The P-1 as is reads like a well designed dedicated maritime patrol platform better than what China have.

Sounds like someone is jealous.

It looks nothing impressive if you ask me compare to modern aviation standard.

Why should anyone ask you or any of the PDF Chinese for that matter ? Any of you ever served ?

Why must it be turbofan?

The turbofan is much quieter than turboprop. For an anti-sub warfare platform, noise reduction is good. But of course, China thinks differently.

Many of their aviation project heavily depends on american assist.

There is nothing wrong with this. China relied heavily on the Soviet Union and to this day, Russia.

Russian has not build much consumer electronic yet anybody could doubt Russia aviation?

Yes, we do doubt. Precisely because Russia do not have a high quality indigenous electronics industry. Russia imports much, if not most, foreign electronics and modify them to suit custom indigenous needs. While this works, it does present serious challenges for capabilities and features that should be controlled by avionics whose designs are dedicated. So while on paper, those capabilities and features sounds impressive, in combat, a few milliseconds delays of anything will mean life or death. Your Chinese scientists understand this and that is why China have a vigorous native semiconductor industry program.

Your China doubt. But here you ask us, especially some Americans who do have relevant experience, not to doubt ?

 

[Beast]

This is why you PDF Chinese should stay out of technical issues.

The IHI F7 is a high bypass turbofan and for an indigenous effort, it is an impressive engine. The P-1 as is reads like a well designed dedicated maritime patrol platform better than what China have.

How can it be well designed when it has such thrust? For a thousand over kg engine that has only 60kn thrust, hello? Are you ok?

Modern turboprop are very fuel efficient. Many MPA uses turboprop and is none of the nonsense noise you make up that will affect it submarine detection.

 

[BoQ77]

How can it be well designed when it has such thrust? For a thousand over kg engine that has only 60kn thrust, hello? Are you ok?

Modern turboprop are very fuel efficient. Many MPA uses turboprop and is none of the nonsense noise you make up that will affect it submarine detection.

F-7 engines make by Japan is not something impressive. It is even inferior to D-30KP2 engines thrust to weight ratio.

F-7 weighted a half of D30KP engine,
P-1 designed to be able to turn off 2 engines in flight.
P-3C ( as Many MPA in your post ) with your ideal turboprop served a half of a century, now they were replacing by P-1 / P-8

 

[Beast]

F-7 weighted a half
P-3C ( as Many MPA ) with your ideal turboprop served a half of a century, now they were replacing by P-1 / P-8

Can you write properly? I don't think anybody can understand what are you trying to tell.

 

[gambit]

How can it be well designed when it has such thrust? For a thousand over kg engine that has only 60kn thrust, hello? Are you ok?

It is funny that you guys crows about China's indigenous jet engine, which STIL have problems, but make every nonsensical attempts to denigrate the JPNese effort.

If you want long range and long duration for a cargo aircraft, a multi-engine platform is necessary. If the JPNese felt that for their maritime patrol purposes, four engines are better than two, then they will design a four engines platform. If four F7s get the P-1 off the ground inside a certain runway distance, up to a designated mission altitude, and cruise for a certain amount of time, the engine is a good design.

Your comment about the T/W ratio is absurd because in order to have that ratio, there must be a weight, and if we install the F7 into another and lighter aircraft, there would be a higher ratio, thereby it is ridiculous to criticize the F7 about its T/W ratio when it is used in the P-1 and that combination accomplished its mission.

Hello ? Do you have any experience in aircraft design ? Are you OK ?

Modern turboprop are very fuel efficient. Many MPA uses turboprop and is none of the nonsense noise you make up that will affect it submarine detection.

Riiiight...

There is no denying the fact that the turboprop is noisier than the turbofan. But the noise in reference here is for the sub, as in a sub can hear the aircraft's engine noise. This is well known since WW II submarine warfare. The Tu-95 with its counter rotating props are so loud that some US pilots who have escorted that aircraft reported they could hear the -95's engine noise thru their helmets and headsets. The Tu-95 is reputedly the world's noisiest propeller driven aircraft.

You think I make this shit up ?

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150225-the-worlds-noisiest-spyplane

The Tu-95 is considered to be the noisiest aircraft in current service; it's even claimed that US submarines can hear the aircraft flying high overhead through their sonar domes while still underwater. Western fighter pilots who shepherded Bears over international airspace have reported being able to hear its turboprops above the sound of their own jet engines.

So in a manner of speaking, the turboprop's noise does affects submarine detection -- the sub can hear it and know someone is up there.

 

[BoQ77]

Why must it be turbofan? We want greater loiter time and range. MPA need not fly very fast. As if submarine can outrun MPA?

100% everything made in China.
View attachment 326547

This platform and turboprop engines design from Soviet Union. China get license to manufacture in China.
You blamed Japan licensed turbofan engine on C1 and design of 4 engines on P1, why you dont make your "advanced turboprop" Y8 a twin engine?

1958

Y-8 smokey advance turboprop

 

[Beast]

This platform and turboprop engines design from Soviet Union. China get license to manufacture in China.
You blamed Japan licensed turbofan engine on C1 and design of 4 engines on P1, why you dont make your "advanced turboprop" Y8 a twin engine?

Another ill attempt by you. China never gets licensed from Soviet Union to manufacture anything. We can manufacture the new design Y-9 series as many as we want and export them as will as demonstrated by our ZK-03 AWACS to PAF w/o any restriction. Why don't Vietnam make a proper passenger plane first before talking about others? Year 2099?

It is funny that you guys crows about China's indigenous jet engine, which STIL have problems, but make every nonsensical attempts to denigrate the JPNese effort.

If you want long range and long duration for a cargo aircraft, a multi-engine platform is necessary. If the JPNese felt that for their maritime patrol purposes, four engines are better than two, then they will design a four engines platform. If four F7s get the P-1 off the ground inside a certain runway distance, up to a designated mission altitude, and cruise for a certain amount of time, the engine is a good design.

Your comment about the T/W ratio is absurd because in order to have that ratio, there must be a weight, and if we install the F7 into another and lighter aircraft, there would be a higher ratio, thereby it is ridiculous to criticize the F7 about its T/W ratio when it is used in the P-1 and that combination accomplished its mission.

Hello ? Do you have any experience in aircraft design ? Are you OK ?


Riiiight...

There is no denying the fact that the turboprop is noisier than the turbofan. But the noise in reference here is for the sub, as in a sub can hear the aircraft's engine noise. This is well known since WW II submarine warfare. The Tu-95 with its counter rotating props are so loud that some US pilots who have escorted that aircraft reported they could hear the -95's engine noise thru their helmets and headsets. The Tu-95 is reputedly the world's noisiest propeller driven aircraft.

You think I make this shit up ?

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150225-the-worlds-noisiest-spyplane


So in a manner of speaking, the turboprop's noise does affects submarine detection -- the sub can hear it and know someone is up there.

You are comparing orange to Apple. Tu-95 turboprop is a product design during Soviet Union era of achieving more raw power than efficiency. Our WJ-6C turboprop is modern , 6 skew composite blade , low noise.

Then may I ask you why USAF has been using P-3C for so many decades and only recently switch to P-8. If turboprop noise is really such a concern? You are just making up things and try to confuse ordinary reader.