Japan non-committal on supply of strategic amphibious aircraft to India

[$@rJen]

Japan non-committal on supply of strategic amphibious aircraft to India

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Monday, February 29, 2016
By: The Hindu

India’s plans to acquire amphibious aircraft from Japan, in the first big military deal between the two countries, is facing serious challenges, senior diplomatic sources told The Hindu on Saturday.

Indicating at a longer waiting period for India’s plans to acquire the amphibious aircraft, US-2, in a deal involving 12-18 aircraft, senior diplomatic sources from Tokyo said on Saturday that Japan had no immediate plans for “selling or delivering” the capacity-multiplier aircraft to India.

“There is no decision about its delivery nor did the Foreign Secretaries discuss the timing of the delivery”, Yasuhisa Kawamura, Director General of Press and Public Diplomacy of Japan told The Hindu after India and Japan held Foreign Secretary-level talks in Tokyo on Friday. Mr. Kawamura said that though Friday’s bilateral dialogue, which was held on the sidelines of a trilateral meeting of India, Japan and Australia, discussed a wide range of maritime security-related issues, the issue of supplying US-2 amphibious aircraft to India did not come up during the talks.

The absence of diplomatic progress on India acquiring the aircraft is significant in view of the fact that during Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s visit to India in December 2015, the two countries had concluded agreements on Transfer of the Defence Equipment and Technology, and, Security Measures for the Protection of Classified Military Information, aimed at deals such as the one on the US-2.

The joint statement issued during Mr. Abe’s visit had also mentioned that both sides were to work on the US-2 deal. The US-2 aircraft has been part of a long-pending demand from India and was specifically mentioned by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his 2014 Japan visit. During Friday’s dialogue, the two countries discussed enhanced maritime security and freedom of navigation-related issues in the East China Sea and South China Sea as well as security-related issues of the Indo-Pacific Ocean.

The Ministry of External Affairs, however, refused to respond to Mr. Kawamura’s comments on the aircraft deal. However, strategic affairs commentators sense a looming crisis regarding the deal.

 

[Ind4Ever]

And we are sitting in our Lala land that Japan will sell us their top secret projects like Soryu SSK

 

[Echo_419]

WTF @Nihonjin1051 why you do this?

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Give the Japanese their time, they are doing this for the first time and being a democracy they are going to face some opposition to this move

For us Indians we are used to weapons makers advertising their product on Indian bus stand, for Japan this is quite tough.

 

[Skull and Bones]

For our submarine, German U-214 is the best option. Lets not count Japanese technological inputs into our defense industry before it happens.

As an immediate measure, I'd increase the number of Scorpenes to 10, and order 2-3 more Improved Kilo from Russia.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I thought we are going just for 6 and no MII due to limited order off the shelf route.. That's what was reported in news media a month or two back.now how come it's back to 12-18..

As far as productivity is concerned I believe US2 production is limited and that's why there as a proposal to set up a line in India and get the benefit of more aircraft per year.. This deal is also under negotiation with Indonesia. The inclinations I heard was more for setting line in indonesia.

So it's a bit confusing to me how its back to 12-18 when so much development already took place as I said above..


See here
'Make in India' boost: Japan offers to set up plant in India for US-2 amphibious aircraft - The Economic Times

The move comes as the Navy plans to procure six such aircraft, under a government to government deal, between 2017 and 2022. Six are proposed to be bought in the next phase.

Sources said the deal could be be a "government to government" exercise with the initial purchase being off the shelf.

"It is not simple to start manufacturing here. There has to be the necessary infrastructure and expertise," sources said.




@Abingdonboy @anant_s

 

[raktaka]

It might be because the Modi govt. do not want to spend Billions for buying foreign goods.

Since making it in India does not make economic sense, it is possible that the GoI would have pushed it at the back of the agenda and focus on Capital goods that can be made in India.

 

[Aepsilons]

WTF @Nihonjin1051 why you do this?

Give it time.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Japan non-committal on supply of strategic amphibious aircraft to India

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Monday, February 29, 2016
By: The Hindu



India’s plans to acquire amphibious aircraft from Japan, in the first big military deal between the two countries, is facing serious challenges, senior diplomatic sources told The Hindu on Saturday.

Indicating at a longer waiting period for India’s plans to acquire the amphibious aircraft, US-2, in a deal involving 12-18 aircraft, senior diplomatic sources from Tokyo said on Saturday that Japan had no immediate plans for “selling or delivering” the capacity-multiplier aircraft to India.

“There is no decision about its delivery nor did the Foreign Secretaries discuss the timing of the delivery”, Yasuhisa Kawamura, Director General of Press and Public Diplomacy of Japan told The Hindu after India and Japan held Foreign Secretary-level talks in Tokyo on Friday. Mr. Kawamura said that though Friday’s bilateral dialogue, which was held on the sidelines of a trilateral meeting of India, Japan and Australia, discussed a wide range of maritime security-related issues, the issue of supplying US-2 amphibious aircraft to India did not come up during the talks.

The absence of diplomatic progress on India acquiring the aircraft is significant in view of the fact that during Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s visit to India in December 2015, the two countries had concluded agreements on Transfer of the Defence Equipment and Technology, and, Security Measures for the Protection of Classified Military Information, aimed at deals such as the one on the US-2.

The joint statement issued during Mr. Abe’s visit had also mentioned that both sides were to work on the US-2 deal. The US-2 aircraft has been part of a long-pending demand from India and was specifically mentioned by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his 2014 Japan visit. During Friday’s dialogue, the two countries discussed enhanced maritime security and freedom of navigation-related issues in the East China Sea and South China Sea as well as security-related issues of the Indo-Pacific Ocean.

The Ministry of External Affairs, however, refused to respond to Mr. Kawamura’s comments on the aircraft deal. However, strategic affairs commentators sense a looming crisis regarding the deal.

So Japan doesn't want to sell unarmed aircraft to a nation it is trying to develop strategic ties with and has often used this deal as a signal of this? How very strange.

It almost seems too counter-intuative to be true @PARIKRAMA

 

[sathya]

I thought we are going just for 6 and no MII due to limited order off the shelf route.. That's what was reported in news media a month or two back.now how come it's back to 12-18..

As far as productivity is concerned I believe US2 production is limited and that's why there as a proposal to set up a line in India and get the benefit of more aircraft per year.. This deal is also under negotiation with Indonesia. The inclinations I heard was more for setting line in indonesia.

So it's a bit confusing to me how its back to 12-18 when so much development already took place as I said above..


See here
'Make in India' boost: Japan offers to set up plant in India for US-2 amphibious aircraft - The Economic Times

The move comes as the Navy plans to procure six such aircraft, under a government to government deal, between 2017 and 2022. Six are proposed to be bought in the next phase.

Sources said the deal could be be a "government to government" exercise with the initial purchase being off the shelf.

"It is not simple to start manufacturing here. There has to be the necessary infrastructure and expertise," sources said.




@Abingdonboy @anant_s

How many US2 s would Indonesia order ?

More than Indian requirements ? for preferring there

 

[nang2]

WTF @Nihonjin1051 why you do this?

Haha, poor @Nihonjin, why do you have to name yourself to represent all Japanese?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I thought we are going just for 6 and no MII due to limited order off the shelf route.. That's what was reported in news media a month or two back.now how come it's back to 12-18..

As far as productivity is concerned I believe US2 production is limited and that's why there as a proposal to set up a line in India and get the benefit of more aircraft per year.. This deal is also under negotiation with Indonesia. The inclinations I heard was more for setting line in indonesia.

So it's a bit confusing to me how its back to 12-18 when so much development already took place as I said above..


See here
'Make in India' boost: Japan offers to set up plant in India for US-2 amphibious aircraft - The Economic Times

The move comes as the Navy plans to procure six such aircraft, under a government to government deal, between 2017 and 2022. Six are proposed to be bought in the next phase.

Sources said the deal could be be a "government to government" exercise with the initial purchase being off the shelf.

"It is not simple to start manufacturing here. There has to be the necessary infrastructure and expertise," sources said.




@Abingdonboy @anant_s

So Japan doesn't want to sell unarmed aircraft to a nation it is trying to develop strategic ties with and has often used this deal as a signal of this? How very strange.

It almost seems too counter-intuative to be true @PARIKRAMA

At present Navy is looking for 4 critical systems/ platforms.
1. Submarines
2. ASW warfare ships Nd aircrafts.
3. Naval Helicopters.
4. Minesweepers.

Its very likely that Navy has postponed the acquisition,which our superb media is reporting it desi style. Take the news with 2 dumpers full of salt.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

How many US2 s would Indonesia order ?

More than Indian requirements ? for preferring there

It is primarily not number but concluding a agreement under which local production can be done.. It seems Indonesia has been able to put forth the plan and necessary approvals as well as government backing.. Something MOD is not able to do inspite of discussing the same for so long. What i had heard is that Indian produced US-2 would cost 25% cheaper than in Japan but taxation and transfer pricing issues needs to be resolved. Also a long financial support in the form of a loan needs to be finalized from Japanese government for this setup. So lot of work is there if you consider Indian line.

Whereas Indonesian line all such issues are more forthcoming in discussion... Owing to the fact that potential customers for US-2 is actually more than 20 countries who have requested Japanese government and have asked for details and price consideration in case the law allows the export of US-2

 

[Abingdonboy]

At present Navy is looking for 4 critical systems/ platforms.
1. Submarines
2. ASW warfare ships Nd aircrafts.
3. Naval Helicopters.
4. Minesweepers.

Its very likely that Navy has postponed the acquisition,which our superb media is reporting it desi style. Take the news with 2 dumpers full of salt.

I think this is a very fair analysis, the US-2I, right now, would be a "nice to have" but when the Sea Kings are still around and ships are going to sea with empty hangers there are clealry more pressing requirements. Addtionally, as you have pointed out, the IN is very much focused on ASW right now which the US-2 would not be able to perform.

In 3 years time, it may be right to take the plunge and make the order, these planes are still vital for the A&N islands in terms of connectivity as well as for SAR down that part of the world. If the IAF or IN want to conduct long range fighter sorties out of INS Baaz they're going to need long range SAR assets. The current SAR apparatus (Mi-8/17 and Cheetaks) will be woefully inadequate to undertake this in a timely manner. Addtionally, these assets will also be extremely useful for supporting the IN's future SSN and SSBN in emergency situations. But as all of these requirements are not quite in the near term I guess it does make sense to prioritise.

@PARIKRAMA @anant_s @ni8mare @knight11