Hellfire2006
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- May 2, 2022
- Messages
- 737
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Where's the pictures or videos of the chinese hypersonic test ?
ISRO, Integrated Defence Staff jointly conduct hypersonic vehicle trials
- Thread starter walterbibikow
- Start date
walterbibikow
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2022
- Messages
- 959
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
walterbibikow
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2022
- Messages
- 959
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
What I posted is land launched and air launched 'hypersonic cruise vehicles' (powered hypersonic flight)
DF one is 'hypersonic glide vehicle' (unpowered flight) and nothing special perse
Both are totally different & cannot be compared
Df one is a glider, our one is a powered vehicle , so no point comparing both in any way
Kingdom come
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2021
- Messages
- 1,008
- Reaction score
- -3
- Country
- Location
New Delhi: Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) on Friday successfully conducted a joint hypersonic vehicle trial along with the Headquarters, Integrated Defence Staff (HQ IDS).
According to the country's premier space research agency, the joint hypersonic vehicle trial matched with the predetermined targets.
@Hellfire2006 @SSBN81 @Skull and Bones @beijingwalker @MH.Yang @etylo @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @SIPRA @Imran Khan @Bilal9 @applesauce @bluesky
Space Agency ISRO Successfully Conducts Joint Hypersonic Vehicle Trials
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) on Friday successfully conducted a joint hypersonic vehicle trial along with the Headquarters, Integrated Defence Staff (HQ IDS).www.google.com
now have 3 parallel Hypersonic vehicle programs running
1. Brahmos Hypersonic ( based on Zircon )
2. DRDO HSTDV
3. Now by ISRO & IDS
Indian startup all set to test hypersonic glide vehicle.
Indian defense companies may have lost 3 billion in potential revenue during March 24 May 31 amid a nationwide lockdown in response to the coronavirus pandemic according to a Ministry of Defence official Those affected include more than 100 large ...
www.google.com
We have a program for glide vehicles as well glide vehicles are faster but less manageable can't be controlled easily
Heard russians avangard can go upto mach 22 don't know how that's possible
serenity
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 2,102
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
We have scramjet powered ones, we have oblique detonation powered ones, we have TRCC combined cycle powered ones, we have TBCC combined cycle ones, we have rotation detonation engine powered ones.
Here are just a few images of Chinese ones that are not powerpoint image renders.
Tsinghua University's experimental rotation detonation engine. This is just an academic project and PLA's RDE powered hypersonics would be secretive. Can see more RDE of this public project from this website.
another university project of flying combined cycle I think this one was a TRCC.
According to both China and the US governments, China has flow a mach 20 (average speed) hypersonic vehicles with range that circumnavigated the Earth.
US General has claimed in the past that China has flown hypersonic glide and powered vehicles "hundreds of times" since 2000s.
https://breakingdefense.com/2021/10...tests-vs-9-us-hyten-says-us-moves-too-slowly/
In this short clip, one can see an engine kick in. Two seperate stages at least shown in the short clip.
Another hypersonic cruise missile with scramjet stage kicking in, very clear difference between the stages. Latter stage has extremely strange contrail without the usual turbulence patterns of usual rocket contrails blowing around.
DF-100 scramjet powered hypersonic "cruise missile" was in service before 2019. Starry Sky project was just some more publicly shown thing similar to DF-100 at least in engine and intake type for that type of scramjet.
DF-17 obviously and DF-17 clearly has some exhaust control systems that are part of flight controls.
A lot more in Pentagon and US papers. More in Chinese literature reports, official and leaks from presentations and meetings.
Sodramjet is oblique detonation engine. Also a major one possibly better for larger vehicles.
CASIC's combined cycle engine at least a really old photo that has been revealed to public.
There's a jet fuel powered one that can reach mach 9. Kerosene powered engine (most likely as one section of a combined cycle engine) that can reach above mach 5 for sustained speeds. So many projects almost all only hinted on with few details online community can piece together using what is reported and written by the US in government and military papers and what news come out from both sides with only just whispers and occasionally some information such as slides, pictures video of distant flight captured by civilian.
Here are just a few images of Chinese ones that are not powerpoint image renders.
Tsinghua University's experimental rotation detonation engine. This is just an academic project and PLA's RDE powered hypersonics would be secretive. Can see more RDE of this public project from this website.
another university project of flying combined cycle I think this one was a TRCC.
According to both China and the US governments, China has flow a mach 20 (average speed) hypersonic vehicles with range that circumnavigated the Earth.
US General has claimed in the past that China has flown hypersonic glide and powered vehicles "hundreds of times" since 2000s.
https://breakingdefense.com/2021/10...tests-vs-9-us-hyten-says-us-moves-too-slowly/
In this short clip, one can see an engine kick in. Two seperate stages at least shown in the short clip.
Another hypersonic cruise missile with scramjet stage kicking in, very clear difference between the stages. Latter stage has extremely strange contrail without the usual turbulence patterns of usual rocket contrails blowing around.
DF-100 scramjet powered hypersonic "cruise missile" was in service before 2019. Starry Sky project was just some more publicly shown thing similar to DF-100 at least in engine and intake type for that type of scramjet.
DF-17 obviously and DF-17 clearly has some exhaust control systems that are part of flight controls.
A lot more in Pentagon and US papers. More in Chinese literature reports, official and leaks from presentations and meetings.
Sodramjet is oblique detonation engine. Also a major one possibly better for larger vehicles.
CASIC's combined cycle engine at least a really old photo that has been revealed to public.
There's a jet fuel powered one that can reach mach 9. Kerosene powered engine (most likely as one section of a combined cycle engine) that can reach above mach 5 for sustained speeds. So many projects almost all only hinted on with few details online community can piece together using what is reported and written by the US in government and military papers and what news come out from both sides with only just whispers and occasionally some information such as slides, pictures video of distant flight captured by civilian.
Attachments
serenity
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 2,102
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
Also US now has reported in Pentagon papers that China has fielded DF-27 hypersonic vehicle which is a superior to DF-17. The vehicle or payload craft may be boost glide, it may be powered.
BTW it should be mentioned that gliders are NOT easier than powered ones. powered ones can be straight forward and under mach 10. Gliders that reach much higher in altitude by boost phase may be mach 20 or above in speeds and much harder to intercept than some powered hypersonic cruise missiles which fly pretty straight and can usually be lower speed than some boost glide types.
Boost glide hypersonics are generally much more advanced in aerodynamics and flight controls and sometimes also at least the skin and structure of the craft needs to be more advanced than cruise missile types due to gliders making use of aerodynamic forces for control, flight, and steering. For example, Zircon and DF-100 or the US HAWC (all three are suspected to be scramjet powered lower than mach 10) would be traveling relatively straight paths. Whereas something like DF-17 would be boosted to high altitude near space and "skip" along while turning a lot more than those cruise missile types and trading altitude for speed over time and distance towards target and also of course making use of shockwaves for "propelling" itself too. hypersonic shockwaves can be ridden which is what gliders use. It is not less advanced. They are just different. China has done plenty of it all. If one chooses to not believe, whatever. If one simply doesn't know, well it's unsurprisingly. Takes a long time and lots of effort to follow all this and there is actually a wealth of information just on the public domain internet. Even in English language.
BTW Xiamen University many years ago test flown a dual shockwave riding hypersonic boost glider. Just a second rate university's team with some funding from PLA for their little project.
The other aspect of all this hypersonic stuff (engine powered and gliders not ballistic missile MaRV for example) is the supporting infrastructure. In this case the main two are hypersonic wind tunnels of which there are many types with many different roles and purposes. And of course supercomputers to crunch numbers.
BTW it should be mentioned that gliders are NOT easier than powered ones. powered ones can be straight forward and under mach 10. Gliders that reach much higher in altitude by boost phase may be mach 20 or above in speeds and much harder to intercept than some powered hypersonic cruise missiles which fly pretty straight and can usually be lower speed than some boost glide types.
Boost glide hypersonics are generally much more advanced in aerodynamics and flight controls and sometimes also at least the skin and structure of the craft needs to be more advanced than cruise missile types due to gliders making use of aerodynamic forces for control, flight, and steering. For example, Zircon and DF-100 or the US HAWC (all three are suspected to be scramjet powered lower than mach 10) would be traveling relatively straight paths. Whereas something like DF-17 would be boosted to high altitude near space and "skip" along while turning a lot more than those cruise missile types and trading altitude for speed over time and distance towards target and also of course making use of shockwaves for "propelling" itself too. hypersonic shockwaves can be ridden which is what gliders use. It is not less advanced. They are just different. China has done plenty of it all. If one chooses to not believe, whatever. If one simply doesn't know, well it's unsurprisingly. Takes a long time and lots of effort to follow all this and there is actually a wealth of information just on the public domain internet. Even in English language.
BTW Xiamen University many years ago test flown a dual shockwave riding hypersonic boost glider. Just a second rate university's team with some funding from PLA for their little project.
The other aspect of all this hypersonic stuff (engine powered and gliders not ballistic missile MaRV for example) is the supporting infrastructure. In this case the main two are hypersonic wind tunnels of which there are many types with many different roles and purposes. And of course supercomputers to crunch numbers.
walterbibikow
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2022
- Messages
- 959
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
@serenity
CJ-100 reaches supersonic speed during its terminal phase.
And DF-27 is a “long range ballistic missile"
www.chinatimes.com
en.wikipedia.org
CJ-100 reaches supersonic speed during its terminal phase.
And DF-27 is a “long range ballistic missile"
超音速航母殺手 陸長劍-100首現身 - 軍事
10月1日的中共建政70周年慶祝活動，是中方至今最大的一場武器秀，而其中最引人關注的，就是首度亮相的超音速航母殺手陸長劍-100。據央視與環球網報導，它速度快、射程遠、作戰半徑大，能快速突破敵人防空網，精確打
Cruise missile - Wikipedia
Last edited:
serenity
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 2,102
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
Some more reading to help piece the available (revealed) puzzle pieces:
1.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...tual_scroll_1&pgtype=article&campaign=3199960
2.
https://www.rt.com/news/565978-chinese-spaceplane-releases-object-ufo/
3.
Pulse detonation (much less than RDE and ODE but it's a small private company as an example).
4.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...chers-simulate-hypersonic-bombing-wind-tunnel
5.
Part of either the single stage to orbit or two stage to orbit programs with aircraft (obviously also hypersonic) that is using a combined cycle engine.
^
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1570373483359776770
6.
part of the communications and target information guidance problem
7.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...r?module=more_top_stories_int&pgtype=homepage
recall that US observation and reports revealed that the Chinese hypersonic craft which circumnavigated the globe also released an object that is part of its delivery payload. Chinese state did not say anything about this until after the US made a lot of noise about it and the Americans suggest it is used to simulate nuclear delivery and after that the Chinese state representatives claimed that the object released is only part of the craft's self defence suite rather than testing a nuclear payload delivery run.
one of the most revealing articles which is also re-reported with similar content on FP which is Washington's military propaganda arm at least deliverying some geostrategic military related news oftentimes breaking them similar to the "China just broke physics and Sputnik moment" articles (reported by FP first) about the circumnavigation flight.
8.
sodramjet AKA oblique detonation engine which was only theorized by some NASA scientists in the past but never achieved or done until recent years by China.
9.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ff4y1o7ZT/
^
Basically commentator says this is Northwest Polytech University research project flew a RBCC combined cycle engine with:
Mach 0-2: air-augmented rocket + ramjet mode
Mach 2-4: ramjet + rocket mode
Mach 4-6: scramjet mode
Mach 6-7: scramjet + rocket mode
10.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...m-has-tested-engine-hypersonic-flight-powered
^
Mianyang Aerodynamics Research Institute has successfully conducted a test on a prototype RDE engine (running on ethylene and kerosene) that can reach a speed of mach 5.
Another RDE
http://www.syltlx.com/cn/article/doi/10.11729/syltlx20210086
https://www.uah.edu/news/items/new-...nation-ramjet-engine-gets-hypersonics-funding
^
The US project here of RDE is academic (Chinese guy's doing it lol). While Europe have their university RDE programs no one except China has flown an RDE powered craft (Tsinghua university has public one while PLA have secretive military ones).
11.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...r?module=more_top_stories_int&pgtype=homepage
DF-100 (I think some call it CJ-100 since designations depend on service branch) is low hypersonic speed at max speed. In Chinese, hypersonic is called literally as "high supersonic" hence translations into English contain the word supersonic. All hypersonic vehicles when described in Chinese are called high supersonic. So Russia's Avangard, USA's HAWC and their other one what it's called, would all be described as high "supersonic" in Chinese.
Anyway there is indeed uncertainty in what DF-100's speed is. It has been claimed by reputable Chinese military commentators as simply mach 3 to mach 5 rather than mach 5+ so if that is accurate then indeed DF-100 would not be a hypersonic at least as average speed sustained.
In any case my point is that gliders and powered vehicles are different and have different challenges. China has both gliders and powered hypersonic craft. After all Tsinghua's public program has test flown a rotating detonation engine in hypersonic speeds. NWPU has tested a RBCC in flight. CASIC and CASC both have flown their single and two stage to orbit craft with combined cycle engines.
1.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...tual_scroll_1&pgtype=article&campaign=3199960
2.
https://www.rt.com/news/565978-chinese-spaceplane-releases-object-ufo/
3.
Pulse detonation (much less than RDE and ODE but it's a small private company as an example).
4.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...chers-simulate-hypersonic-bombing-wind-tunnel
5.
Part of either the single stage to orbit or two stage to orbit programs with aircraft (obviously also hypersonic) that is using a combined cycle engine.
^
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1570373483359776770
6.
part of the communications and target information guidance problem
7.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...r?module=more_top_stories_int&pgtype=homepage
recall that US observation and reports revealed that the Chinese hypersonic craft which circumnavigated the globe also released an object that is part of its delivery payload. Chinese state did not say anything about this until after the US made a lot of noise about it and the Americans suggest it is used to simulate nuclear delivery and after that the Chinese state representatives claimed that the object released is only part of the craft's self defence suite rather than testing a nuclear payload delivery run.
one of the most revealing articles which is also re-reported with similar content on FP which is Washington's military propaganda arm at least deliverying some geostrategic military related news oftentimes breaking them similar to the "China just broke physics and Sputnik moment" articles (reported by FP first) about the circumnavigation flight.
8.
sodramjet AKA oblique detonation engine which was only theorized by some NASA scientists in the past but never achieved or done until recent years by China.
9.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ff4y1o7ZT/
^
Basically commentator says this is Northwest Polytech University research project flew a RBCC combined cycle engine with:
Mach 0-2: air-augmented rocket + ramjet mode
Mach 2-4: ramjet + rocket mode
Mach 4-6: scramjet mode
Mach 6-7: scramjet + rocket mode
10.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...m-has-tested-engine-hypersonic-flight-powered
^
Mianyang Aerodynamics Research Institute has successfully conducted a test on a prototype RDE engine (running on ethylene and kerosene) that can reach a speed of mach 5.
Another RDE
http://www.syltlx.com/cn/article/doi/10.11729/syltlx20210086
https://www.uah.edu/news/items/new-...nation-ramjet-engine-gets-hypersonics-funding
^
The US project here of RDE is academic (Chinese guy's doing it lol). While Europe have their university RDE programs no one except China has flown an RDE powered craft (Tsinghua university has public one while PLA have secretive military ones).
11.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...r?module=more_top_stories_int&pgtype=homepage
@serenity
CJ-100 reaches supersonic speed during its terminal phase.
And DF-27 is a “long range ballistic missile"
超音速航母殺手 陸長劍-100首現身 - 軍事
10月1日的中共建政70周年慶祝活動，是中方至今最大的一場武器秀，而其中最引人關注的，就是首度亮相的超音速航母殺手陸長劍-100。據央視與環球網報導，它速度快、射程遠、作戰半徑大，能快速突破敵人防空網，精確打
Cruise missile - Wikipedia
DF-100 (I think some call it CJ-100 since designations depend on service branch) is low hypersonic speed at max speed. In Chinese, hypersonic is called literally as "high supersonic" hence translations into English contain the word supersonic. All hypersonic vehicles when described in Chinese are called high supersonic. So Russia's Avangard, USA's HAWC and their other one what it's called, would all be described as high "supersonic" in Chinese.
Anyway there is indeed uncertainty in what DF-100's speed is. It has been claimed by reputable Chinese military commentators as simply mach 3 to mach 5 rather than mach 5+ so if that is accurate then indeed DF-100 would not be a hypersonic at least as average speed sustained.
In any case my point is that gliders and powered vehicles are different and have different challenges. China has both gliders and powered hypersonic craft. After all Tsinghua's public program has test flown a rotating detonation engine in hypersonic speeds. NWPU has tested a RBCC in flight. CASIC and CASC both have flown their single and two stage to orbit craft with combined cycle engines.
Last edited:
serenity
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 2,102
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
https://twitter.com/JenJudson/status/1425102415146233859
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...unnel-put-china-decades-ahead-hypersonic-race
TSTO vehicle test flown within atmoshere test only.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...u-s-lags-china-on-hypersonic-weapons-by-years
China has done hundreds of hypersonic weapons tests in the past several years, VCJS Gen Hyten said, as opposed to 9 for the US.
"They launched a long-range missile," Hyten told CBS News. "It went around the world, dropped off a hypersonic glide vehicle that glided all the way back to China, that impacted a target in China." Asked if it hit the target, Hyten replied, "Close enough."
https://www.ft.com/content/a127f6de-f7b1-459e-b7ae-c14ed6a9198c
I recall other articles providing the time of flight for this one where it traveled 40,000km in around 1.5 hours = mach 20 average speed sustained.
they call it FOBS but these new "FOBS" use similar trajectory and flight characteristics to modern boost glide HGVs.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...t-revealed-unprecedented-military-capability/
oblique detonation engine which is used by larger HGVs of China
this one is a bit weird but basically long range anti air hypersonic weapons. so called as air to air missile but think of it as DF-100 or Zircon or HAWC like smaller sized hypersonic air breathing simply types that are designed to attack probably large air targets
just one of literally thousands of public papers on the topic in just English language. Same can be found for so many. Can link a few more if required.
interesting article about the relevance of sodramjets now.
this one is about mass production of air breathing hypersonic missiles to keep cost down and attritionable weapons types of hypersonic "cruise missile" aka air breathing
communication technology for hypersonics to find a way around the plasma cloud problem. Similar technology has been applied to China's 6G telecommunications tech which has been in experimentation and testing for over 3 years now and many satellites part of this test network. China has over 400 satellites in orbit (not counting deorbited or retired ones). Only a few dozen are testing next gen communications that is not the quantum encryption type.
That's ``the greatest distance and longest flight time of any land attack weapon system of any nation to date. The PRC is investing heavily in HGV and directed energy weapons technology for global strike and defeat of missile-defense systems, anti-satellite, anti-missile''
another Tsinghua project on continuous detonation engine.
The hypersonic vehicle flew 40,000 km (25,000 miles) for more than 100 minutes, Admiral Charles Richard wrote in the testimony -- the most detailed U.S. account of the test to date
Last edited:
Kingdom come
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2021
- Messages
- 1,008
- Reaction score
- -3
- Country
- Location
Gliders are uncontrolled they move on kinetic speed that's why they reach higher speed
True air breathing scramjet will always be superior
HydraChess
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2022
- Messages
- 1,014
- Reaction score
- -10
- Country
- Location
False. DF-100 uses rocket integrated ramjet. It will give it near hypersonic speed but not really 7-8 mach speed.
INDIAPOSITIVE
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 9,318
- Reaction score
- -28
- Country
- Location
Kingdom come
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2021
- Messages
- 1,008
- Reaction score
- -3
- Country
- Location
They are ahead the top 3 are
US
Russia
China
We are on the second tier but very few countries are even on the second tier
Japan and india and australia with US assistance we just have to keep at it
By reports alone avangard should be the fastest hgv in history i believe it can reach a speed of mach 22-27 but i heard 83-92 percent of burns up during the flight
And useful for delivering strategic payloads
HydraChess
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2022
- Messages
- 1,014
- Reaction score
- -10
- Country
- Location
Huh?
The entire point about HGV is you do not want it to reach higher altitude and get easily detected.
Hypersonic cruise missiles fulfill a totally different need: Anti ship missiles. They are way more manuverable than HGV and NO they do not need to fly straight!
Irrelevant. His posts have too many factual issues.
serenity
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 2,102
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
This is actually not well known to us outsiders. It's quite possible it's controllable and extremely so. As outsider observers we can only see that US China and Russia all have either fielded (China has certainly fielded while Russia's Avangard hasn't been seen or heard or observed in flight and US's ARRW project is a glider. Therefore it makes at least some sense that gliders are controllable well enough. China has mass produced DF-17's HGV and recent US military white papers have mentioned it while China has semi officially disclosed production rate ranges for just DF-ZF glider.
Again it's not certain to say there is any type that is "superior" to another type. In any case, China does indeed have air breathing, engine powered hypersonic craft. There are already two that were publicly shown - Tsinghua's RDE and NWPU's RBCC. And many others the US has observed, China has officially disclosed and reported on test flying and in some cases where it is SSTO/TSTO, landed. US has not once contradicted these statements from China or mentioned lies or not watching them fly from their observation platforms from space, from sea, from land, from air.
It is not known what DF-100 uses. Its intake that was grainy photo shown accidentally and then removed, showed an intake geometry similar to the Starry Sky hypersonic test platform. Where the DF-100 even resembles the Starry Sky test platform's last stage section. It is most likely scramjet. Ramjet intakes are not designed like this.
BUT due to few info or details of DF-100 and a few contradictions (probably on purpose) by state sponsored Chinese military commentators who claim DF-100 is less than Mach 5, it may indeed be different to Starry Sky test platform and DF-100 could indeed be a very long range ramjet powered missile instead of a hypersonic one.
Australia and Japan are less than second tier. They have the brains and the funding but not the desire and the projects. Their projects that have in the past occurred were all US sponsored ones and cooperative joint tests like the one with Queensland University. Really that one was 99% a US project just carried out with Australia for optics and handshakes.
India is certainly ahead of Japan and Australia here as India does have projects on these.
Similar threads
