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Is this true. This is frightening.

but some people would want US arms in exchange for anything basically , some of them are in the military establishment too............ :disagree: .THis is nothing my friend.This country is plagued with idiots.
 
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A mere 20,000 Brits were enough to control a whole subcontinent*. As long as there are Mir Jafars in abundance, sheer numbers don't matter. The disparity between the UK and the subcontinent of the 18/1900s is even more stark than the population disparity between the great powers of today and Pakistan. How we get rid of the Jafars is a matter up for debate. Ask the religious folks and they will say even more religion needs to be introduced to make the Jafars fear God. Ask the nationalists and they will say we need to focus on a Pakistani identity to strengthen loyalty to this land and thereby reduce the Jafars. Ask the militarists and they will argue for strong central control/military dictatorship to get rid of the Jafars by force.

*During this period a tiny number of British officials and troops (about 20,000 in all) ruled over 300 million Indians https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/empire/g2/cs4/background.htm

You cannot impose loyalty by any means. It is either inside of you or you are just a disloyal person.

If we go by history, we are generally speaking a disloyal bunch who don't even back our own cause.

So why can't Pakistan simply cut diplomatic ties from the US??? Just kick out their Ambassador, recall Pakistan's ambassador and game over??

Ideally this is the solution. I have said this a trillion times. As long as the Pakistani state remains dependent on US help for IMF loans there won't be much progress.

China has a major responsibility.
 
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FYI


Halal fundraising activities in the US?

And what about USAID to the Military?

Now let us come to the truly frightening part.

The Naya Daur part is truly frightening?

Naya Daur is a TV Channel similar to others in Pakistan.


Let me tell you what is truly frightening.

The emergence of TLP and the sort, capacity of these religiously-motivated entities to influence things in Pakistan with street power tactics, and the spread of religious intolerance in the country.


These are but byproducts of Mullah-appeasing Politics and overdosage of Islam in Public discourses in the absence of a formal Education System which can impart values of Tolerance, Fact-finding and Critical-thinking in the masses.

What became of a Sri Lankan National (a Factory Manager) when he was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening.

What became of Mishal Khan when he was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening - inside a University no less.

What became of a couple when it was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening.

One should dread the day when he (or she) is accused of blasphemy by somebody. You better be on the run then and there, or a Zombie Horde of pretend-Muslims will come for you and rip you apart in the process.

I find the Religious Persecution part truly frightening.

Every Political force in Pakistan including the Military accepts and benefits from USAID from time-to-time.

Selective criticism is damaging and misleading.
 
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FYI


Halal fundraising activities in the US?

And what about USAID to the Military?

Now let us come to the truly frightening part.

The Naya Daur part is truly frightening?

Naya Daur is a TV Channel similar to others in Pakistan.


Let me tell you what is truly frightening.

The emergence of TLP and the sort, capacity of these religiously-motivated entities to influence things in Pakistan with street power tactics, and the spread of religious intolerance in the country.


These are but byproducts of Mullah-appeasing Politics and overdosage of Islam in Public discourses in the absence of a formal Education System which can impart values of Tolerance, Fact-finding and Critical-thinking in the masses.

What became of a Sri Lankan National (a Factory Manager) when he was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening.

What became of Mishal Khan when he was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening - inside a University no less.

What became of a couple when it was accused of blasphemy is truly frightening.

One should dread the day when he (or she) is accused of blasphemy by somebody. You better be on the run then and there, or a Zombie Horde of pretend-Muslims will come for you and rip you apart in the process.

I find the Religious Persecution part truly frightening.

Every Political force in Pakistan including the Military accepts and benefits from USAID from time-to-time.

Selective criticism is damaging and misleading.

Why not just become an American colony, let viceroy of America govern Pakistan. Surely they can solve all the problems.

This is not for your benefit this is to enforce their interests. They will never let you stand on your own feet brown man.

This is exactly what they did in honk Kong or the so called Arab revolution. Governing countries through proxies.
 
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That is the reason they are all against Imran Khan. by ...........................
Fake news, studies, social media and all available tools by putting money.
People should open their eyes and ears ( which I am not sure. )..8-)
Not sole reason against Imran Khan. This is Imran Khan own policies such as soft corner for banned terrorist organizations like TTP and others.
 
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Is there any official statement from PPPP or PMLN or the organisations mentioned in the letter ?
 
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A mere 20,000 Brits were enough to control a whole subcontinent*. As long as there are Mir Jafars in abundance, sheer numbers don't matter. The disparity between the UK and the subcontinent of the 18/1900s is even more stark than the population disparity between the great powers of today and Pakistan. How we get rid of the Jafars is a matter up for debate. Ask the religious folks and they will say even more religion needs to be introduced to make the Jafars fear God. Ask the nationalists and they will say we need to focus on a Pakistani identity to strengthen loyalty to this land and thereby reduce the Jafars. Ask the militarists and they will argue for strong central control/military dictatorship to get rid of the Jafars by force.

*During this period a tiny number of British officials and troops (about 20,000 in all) ruled over 300 million Indians https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/empire/g2/cs4/background.htm

I'm sorry to say but this romanticised version of colonialism, and a historical Indian past will not work any longer. We seriously need to understand the nuances and the factors at play in history. Interpreting history through repeated sound bites is unfair and simply wrong.

This simple interpretation of history has given this region Hindu extremism, the RSS and the BJP fascist government.

The British did not take over India/South Asia with 20,000, it was far less, it increased with time, neither did they take over this so-called India, because India never existed as a country, it's truly a sad and false representation of a nation that never was.

The British took over South Asia/India, a region, by defeating multiple kingdoms in multiple battle. It took them a hundred years to reach Lahore from Calcutta, that's because it never a country. Hence the size differential doesn't come into it.

The kingdoms were a lot smaller, and whatever deficiencies the British had were compensated by superior technology, better governance, and better education, plus, partnerships with local allies. Partnering with local allies has been the name of the game throughout history, it is nothing special to the British as it has been repeated for so long.
Please read The Anarchy by William dalrymple, you'll find interesting details.

The Mir Jaffar's is another overblown drama that gets repeated far too often. During the decade before the battle of Plassey in 1757, the Marathas had killed nearly 500,000 Bengalis and Biharis, which had weakened Bengal, and played a major role in the British victory. Suffering at the hands of the Marathas, that's an another kingdom, because India was never a country, losing half a million people, and the associated destruction, and paying 25% of your income to the Marathas for them to stop attacking is going to weaken you. This story gets ignored, But there is never one single reason. Mir Jaffar's were just a single reason among many.

Size matters, but please do not take one view as a singular answer, that as the only determinant factor. It is a sound bit for a bigger argument. Size always matters, but you have to get other factors right. despite the perception, Pakistan has gotten and is getting lot of things right.

India inherited a fully functioning state, that matters, and all the resources and a proper industrial base, that matters. It's main founding father lived on for 17 more years, and it had large number of other capable top tier national leaders, that matters. Still, despite all this, India does not have a national language, even today. They have created a fantasy for themselves and the world has bought into it, about a historical India, but, they still do not have a national language, meaning, they are still in the process of nation building. There was no India before 1947, just a region, there is an India now, but it is still in the process of nation building.

Pakistan inherited the poorest areas of South Asia/British India, with no industrial base at all. No resources, Not a single complete university, no governance structures, they had to build everything anew, they had to do this when it's single most important founding father was sick and died in one year, the second most capable was killed by an Afghan, just 4 years later in 1951, possibly backed by India. The rest of the leadership was second tier, just regional leaders. But they held the country together, that matters.
All this, and at the same time hosting 6-7 million refugees, that's over 20% of the population, whilst fighting a year long war with a neighbour 11 times bigger then you, that matters. India also had around 6 million refugees but that only amounted to 1.5% of their population, they had everything intact.

We Pakistanis have forgotten far too much, and disrespect our history by ignoring what we have achieved and what our Civilian leaders have delivered.

20% refugees amounts to around 250 million in India. 65 million in America, 13 million in the UK, 16 million in Germany. They cry about few hundred thousands. lets see how they would cope with those numbers, even with fully functional governments, their societies would collapse overnight.

But Pakistan did, and we did it when nothing was in place, nothing. So please do not forget and do not under value the resilience of our nation.

All Pakistanis have accepted Urdu as our national language, people have pride in their local mother tongues but they have wholeheartedly accepted Urdu, whereas India is still on that path. There is a Pakistani nation out there, it already exists, it is the foolish who cannot see it, or lack faith.

Size matters, but we have to get other things right, hopefully we will, we have been derailed by factors outside our control, but like before, we WILL deal with it, because the links between the people of Pakistan go back to the dawn of time, to the Indus Valley Civilisation, those links are in our blood, few other nations can make such a claim. Please show some faith in our resilience, and also express faith when evaluating.


@Mangus Ortus Novem
 
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I'm sorry to say but this romanticised version of colonialism, and a historical Indian past will not work any longer. We seriously need to understand the nuances and the factors at play in history. Interpreting history through repeated sound bites is unfair and simply wrong.

This simple interpretation of history has given this region Hindu extremism, the RSS and the BJP fascist government.

The British did not take over India/South Asia with 20,000, it was far less, it increased with time, neither did they take over this so-called India, because India never existed as a country, it's truly a sad and false representation of a nation that never was.

The British took over South Asia/India, a region, by defeating multiple kingdoms in multiple battle. It took them a hundred years to reach Lahore from Calcutta, that's because it never a country. Hence the size differential doesn't come into it.

The kingdoms were a lot smaller, and whatever deficiencies the British had were compensated by superior technology, better governance, and better education, plus, partnerships with local allies. Partnering with local allies has been the name of the game throughout history, it is nothing special to the British as it has been repeated for so long.
Please read The Anarchy by William dalrymple, you'll find interesting details.

The Mir Jaffar's is another overblown drama that gets repeated far too often. During the decade before the battle of Plassey in 1757, the Marathas had killed nearly 500,000 Bengalis and Biharis, which had weakened Bengal, and played a major role in the British victory. Suffering at the hands of the Marathas, that's an another kingdom, because India was never a country, losing half a million people, and the associated destruction, and paying 25% of your income to the Marathas for them to stop attacking is going to weaken you. This story gets ignored, But there is never one single reason. Mir Jaffar's were just a single reason among many.

Size matters, but please do not take one view as a singular answer, that as the only determinant factor. It is a sound bit for a bigger argument. Size always matters, but you have to get other factors right. despite the perception, Pakistan has gotten and is getting lot of things right.

India inherited a fully functioning state, that matters, and all the resources and a proper industrial base, that matters. It's main founding father lived on for 17 more years, and it had large number of other capable top tier national leaders, that matters. Still, despite all this, India does not have a national language, even today. They have created a fantasy for themselves and the world has bought into it, about a historical India, but, they still do not have a national language, meaning, they are still in the process of nation building. There was no India before 1947, just a region, there is an India now, but it is still in the process of nation building.

Pakistan inherited the poorest areas of South Asia/British India, with no industrial base at all. No resources, Not a single complete university, no governance structures, they had to build everything anew, they had to do this when it's single most important founding father was sick and died in one year, the second most capable was killed by an Afghan, just 4 years later in 1951, possibly backed by India. The rest of the leadership was second tier, just regional leaders. But they held the country together, that matters.
All this, and at the same time hosting 6-7 million refugees, that's over 20% of the population, whilst fighting a year long war with a neighbour 11 times bigger then you, that matters. India also had around 6 million refugees but that only amounted to 1.5% of their population, they had everything intact.

We Pakistanis have forgotten far too much, and disrespect our history by ignoring what we have achieved and what our Civilian leaders have delivered.

20% refugees amounts to around 250 million in India. 65 million in America, 13 million in the UK, 16 million in Germany. They cry about few hundred thousands. lets see how they would cope with those numbers, even with fully functional governments, their societies would collapse overnight.

But Pakistan did, and we did it when nothing was in place, nothing. So please do not forget and do not under value the resilience of our nation.

All Pakistanis have accepted Urdu as our national language, people have pride in their local mother tongues but they have wholeheartedly accepted Urdu, whereas India is still on that path. There is a Pakistani nation out there, it already exists, it is the foolish who cannot see it, or lack faith.

Size matters, but we have to get other things right, hopefully we will, we have been derailed by factors outside our control, but like before, we WILL deal with it, because the links between the people of Pakistan go back to the dawn of time, to the Indus Valley Civilisation, those links are in our blood, few other nations can make such a claim. Please show some faith in our resilience, and also express faith when evaluating.


@Mangus Ortus Novem

Excellent and extraordinary post, based upon factual historical data, and it's realistic interpretation.
 
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I'm sorry to say but this romanticised version of colonialism, and a historical Indian past will not work any longer. We seriously need to understand the nuances and the factors at play in history. Interpreting history through repeated sound bites is unfair and simply wrong.

This simple interpretation of history has given this region Hindu extremism, the RSS and the BJP fascist government.

The British did not take over India/South Asia with 20,000, it was far less, it increased with time, neither did they take over this so-called India, because India never existed as a country, it's truly a sad and false representation of a nation that never was.

The British took over South Asia/India, a region, by defeating multiple kingdoms in multiple battle. It took them a hundred years to reach Lahore from Calcutta, that's because it never a country. Hence the size differential doesn't come into it.

The kingdoms were a lot smaller, and whatever deficiencies the British had were compensated by superior technology, better governance, and better education, plus, partnerships with local allies. Partnering with local allies has been the name of the game throughout history, it is nothing special to the British as it has been repeated for so long.
Please read The Anarchy by William dalrymple, you'll find interesting details.

The Mir Jaffar's is another overblown drama that gets repeated far too often. During the decade before the battle of Plassey in 1757, the Marathas had killed nearly 500,000 Bengalis and Biharis, which had weakened Bengal, and played a major role in the British victory. Suffering at the hands of the Marathas, that's an another kingdom, because India was never a country, losing half a million people, and the associated destruction, and paying 25% of your income to the Marathas for them to stop attacking is going to weaken you. This story gets ignored, But there is never one single reason. Mir Jaffar's were just a single reason among many.

Size matters, but please do not take one view as a singular answer, that as the only determinant factor. It is a sound bit for a bigger argument. Size always matters, but you have to get other factors right. despite the perception, Pakistan has gotten and is getting lot of things right.

India inherited a fully functioning state, that matters, and all the resources and a proper industrial base, that matters. It's main founding father lived on for 17 more years, and it had large number of other capable top tier national leaders, that matters. Still, despite all this, India does not have a national language, even today. They have created a fantasy for themselves and the world has bought into it, about a historical India, but, they still do not have a national language, meaning, they are still in the process of nation building. There was no India before 1947, just a region, there is an India now, but it is still in the process of nation building.

Pakistan inherited the poorest areas of South Asia/British India, with no industrial base at all. No resources, Not a single complete university, no governance structures, they had to build everything anew, they had to do this when it's single most important founding father was sick and died in one year, the second most capable was killed by an Afghan, just 4 years later in 1951, possibly backed by India. The rest of the leadership was second tier, just regional leaders. But they held the country together, that matters.
All this, and at the same time hosting 6-7 million refugees, that's over 20% of the population, whilst fighting a year long war with a neighbour 11 times bigger then you, that matters. India also had around 6 million refugees but that only amounted to 1.5% of their population, they had everything intact.

We Pakistanis have forgotten far too much, and disrespect our history by ignoring what we have achieved and what our Civilian leaders have delivered.

20% refugees amounts to around 250 million in India. 65 million in America, 13 million in the UK, 16 million in Germany. They cry about few hundred thousands. lets see how they would cope with those numbers, even with fully functional governments, their societies would collapse overnight.

But Pakistan did, and we did it when nothing was in place, nothing. So please do not forget and do not under value the resilience of our nation.

All Pakistanis have accepted Urdu as our national language, people have pride in their local mother tongues but they have wholeheartedly accepted Urdu, whereas India is still on that path. There is a Pakistani nation out there, it already exists, it is the foolish who cannot see it, or lack faith.

Size matters, but we have to get other things right, hopefully we will, we have been derailed by factors outside our control, but like before, we WILL deal with it, because the links between the people of Pakistan go back to the dawn of time, to the Indus Valley Civilisation, those links are in our blood, few other nations can make such a claim. Please show some faith in our resilience, and also express faith when evaluating.

@Mangus Ortus Novem

Very good, and just to add to this, the British were invited by the Jagat Seths (Hindu bankers) of Bengal because the Muslim ruler of the time, Siraj ud Daulah, was aggressive, oppressive and didn't understand how to manage finances. Money played its role in what transpired, as it does with everything.

 
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Very good, and just to add to this, the British were invited by the Jagat Seths (Hindu bankers) of Bengal because the Muslim ruler of the time, Siraj ud Daulah, was aggressive, oppressive and didn't understand how to manage finances. Money played its role in what transpired, as it does with everything.


Yes, the book I mentioned discusses those aspects in some details. It is still just one aspect of the whole colonial enterprise.

But I would prefer to keep concentred on two facts, that they did not conquer a country called India, because there was no India, just a region referred to as India by the outsiders.
And, that the resilience of Pakistan and it's people is a historical fact, and we have renewed our identity and the historical bonds we shared since the dawn of time. Pakistan is awaking slowly but surely.
 
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Express tribune in there as well which is pretty pro-establishment these days and produces junk in the name of objective journalism. Stopped reading it ages ago.
 
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