Is this the real issue between India and Pakistan?

[GURU DUTT]

OK my Shupa Powa friend, no problem. Keep spreading the terrorism and day dreaming that Pakistan can submit to your wishes.

You have been trying it for the last 67 years and can keep dreaming for the next 100 years. We are a warrior nation and will defeat your terrorism in time.

Just don't go crying like a little girl around the world next time something happens in India though...

try it whoes stopping you

 

[M.SAAD]

Ego's from both sides , specially India is the real issue.

 

[ito]

And we are talking about the long history of Indian sponsored terrorism in the neighborhood, which is spanned over decades.

LTTE and Mukti Bahini are but just two examples (BLA, TTP being the other two). And you guys are even shamelessly denying that, which is why your denials worth a tiny rat's arse.

I am not going into this "provide evidence" bullshyte, the whole world including you Indians know it so lets just stick to main point.

Stop destablizing our country via your terrorist proxies and we have no immediate problem with India.

LTTE is where Indian provided the support and see the results...one of our prime minister was killed.

Indian did not provided any support to Mukti Bahini. Mukti Bahini is a result of west Pakistan's systematic genocide and denial of political rights to then east Pakistanis.

Support to BLA. TTP by India are Pakistani imagination. If you have evidence you guys should put in before UN.

 

[coffee_cup]

LTTE is where Indian provided the support and see the results...one of our prime minister was killed.

...
.

Ok so your govt has been sponsoring cross-border terrorism in the neighborhood, not a very nice thing to do, especially when you know that the victim of your terrorism might react and India might have to pay heavy price.

Several things have happened in India already as a reaction and Indian crying face in that case did not make much of impression on the world. Because they know you....

 

[Bang Galore]

Keeping part of Kashmir has not been good for India's mental health. They would have been better off letting it go for the greater good of the region and their own sanity. Seeing Pakistani flags being waved in Indian territory every month surely is not good for their state of mind and herewith lies the root of the problem.

Thanks for your opinion but we will keep the part of Kashmir that we administer with us. No one in India is interested in a Pakistani's opinion on that matter. It actually gives the lie to the rest of your posts about good relations etc. If the price of good relations with Pakistan be Kashmir, you can be certain that it will remain unpaid.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Ego's from both sides , specially India is the real issue.

 

[AHAM BRIHMASMI]

The mor0ns in Dawn at it again!

Laanat on this media group really. I hope one day a serious govt sits in power and cleans up the media in Pakistan, which is mostly running on foreign NGO aid.

Of course the biggest issue for Pakistan is Indian sponsored terrorism to keep Pakistan destablized and to fulfill this "Akhanad Baharat" wet dream. And this issue has been there for the past many decades.

Pakistanis have seen how they have supported terrorism in East Pakistan. We have seen (and still seeing) their support for BLA, TTP and so on.

If India leaves us alone, stops her obsession to keep us destablized by terrorism, we have no major issue with them.
Disputes like Kashmir, Siachen etc can be adressed in time.

1. Akhand Bharat is only a term used by RSS to troll Pakistanis. No body in India want to live with Pakistan. You take my word, 90% of Indians including me will fight against this move like TTP if some Govt. will try it.

2. India or R&AW dont have capability to motivate terrorism in Pakistan, We are KAFIR for hardliner muslims so taking us as friend or guide will lead them to hell as per Quran. We can only pretend as supporting them to tease you, nothing more; because they themselves would not like to get our support. They are MUSLIM first and balochistani afterwords, and TTP consider themselves the purest Muslims. All terrorism and insurgency in Pakistan are only violent efforts to prove oneself more muslim than others, nothing else.

3. Of course R&AW have its assets in Pakistan, but that is only for getting the information about terrorists operating in India. Beyond that, we neither have will nor power.

4. What most Pakistanis (at least those are in PDF) think about India is pure BS, nothing else, and that is because you are incompetent to see the world with out Quranic lenses. We know that nobody in this world can do anything on that aspect, so you please live in your own hell and let us live in our own........ PEACEFULLY

 

[SarthakGanguly]

FORGET the loons and the kooks, the puff-chested braggarts and the incorrigible denialists, and ask yourself this: what is the Pak-India relationship really about?

At its core, as defined in the present era, stripped of hype and hyperbole, denuded of posturing and silliness, what is it that Pakistan and India need of each other in strategic terms?

Not trade, not normalisation, none of the aspirational stuff — what can the two of them simply not ignore about the other?

For India, it’s pretty straightforward: avoid another Mumbai. That means, can’t ignore the anti-India lot, LeT and the like, sloshing around in Pakistan.

Combined, the Pakistani and Indian responses make for some fireworks and a great deal of noise. But it does little to change the contradiction at the heart of the relationship.
From an Indian perspective, anti-India militancy in Pakistan has to be the baseline — no state, government or security establishment can possibly ignore it. Nor should they. Nor will they.

For Pakistan, you have to probe a little more, but it comes into view all right. It’s not Kashmir, at least not Kashmir in the conventional sense described here.

The K-boat sailed a long time ago and nothing more will be wrested, at the negotiating table or on the battlefield, than roughly the four-point solution of the Mush era.

So, unfinished business or not, what we’re lectured about or not, Kashmir is hardly a strategic core, whose presence or absence directly determines the very course of the country.

At most Kashmir is an institutional core — allowing the boys to justify their exalted status and internal predominance.

So, what then? It’s the Indian war machine, specifically, its conventional capabilities. It’s the only thing that’s unsustainable — the threat of a chasm between the conventional capabilities of the two countries.

The Kashmir dispute we can sustain, water we can probably keep squabbling over, no-trade status we can continue, people-to-people contact we can ignore, but there’s an inherent divergence in the conventional capabilities of us and them that folk here gloss over with a little lie.

That lie is this: the wider the conventional gap grows — as India plays catch-up with and overtakes Pakistan in various aspects of the military realm — all that will happen is that Pakistan will lower the nuclear threshold and hence Pakistan will still be able to protect itself. Neat and deadly.

But follow that logic a bit. We already have an example: from the Indian parliament attack to Operation Parakram to the quasi-mooting of Cold Start to Pakistan developing smaller missiles that can carry miniaturised nuclear warheads, the whole spiral has already played out.

Great. We feel safe. Here’s the problem though: tactical nuclear missiles only respond to the threat of a rapid and limited ground invasion by the Indians. There are a whole bunch of other options.

A sea blockade by the Indian navy or air strikes by the Indian air force, for example. Or, if we want to get really fancy, imagine a multi-day episode like Mumbai that triggers an OBL-style Indian raid on Muridke before the militant attack is snuffed out in India.

Much of that is fantasy, either because India can only dream of such capabilities or because it’s insanely expensive to assemble. But, given its economic trajectory, given the money it can set aside for its military, given its external relationships and given the highly skilled pockets of labour available to it, India can afford to at least take a partial stab at fantasy.

Then what? To every new conventional capability India threatens or acquires, Pakistan can’t simply lower the nuclear threshold further. That would be absurd and unworkable for a bunch of reasons, not least because it would mean us sitting on a hair-trigger that would give the world jitters.

So, in every realistic scenario, Pakistan cannot let the conventional parity with India grow too out of whack. And in every realistic scenario, Pakistan simply doesn’t have the resources to compete conventionally — if India decides to hit the accelerator.

Either it would bankrupt us à la the Soviets and the Cold War or it would drive us to do something desperate before the point of no return is reached.

That, then, is the core of the Pak-India relationship: the intolerable threat of militancy for India and the unsustainable proposition of a conventional arms race for Pakistan.

And that also explains why the relationship is again near insoluble — the fear of one feeds the fear of the other.

Why should Pakistan give up on the proxy threat when it can’t compete in the long term in the conventional realm and militancy is the one thing India doesn’t have an answer to?

And why would India give up the option of pulling away conventionally if it’s the one thing that could make Pakistan consider giving up its proxies for good?

The worst thing about the Pak-India relationship is not that it doesn’t make sense, but that, when you look at it closely, the damn thing makes a kind of perverse sense.

Which brings us to the present. Pakistan’s hedge against a possible arms race with India has been to stabilise ties with the US: chummy up to the Americans and keep the weapons flowing while there’s a hawk in Delhi. It’s no accident that ties with the US are at their most stable in years.

India’s response to the continuing militancy threat has been to change tack from Manmohan Singh’s tentative diplomacy to Modi flirting with the proxy threat against Pakistan.

Combined, the Pakistani and Indian responses make for some fireworks and a great deal of noise. But it does little to change the contradiction at the heart of the relationship.

An intolerable threat for the Indian side and an unsustainable proposition for the Pakistani side is a riddle no one appears to have the answer to.

India, Pakistan, again - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

Incorrect. The main issue is religion(plus the inferiority/superiority complex of Pakistanis) and the traumatic partition.
Imagine a Muslim India. Would Pakistan have a problem with Kashmir then? I think not. As long as we are not Muslim, we won't be treated as equals by the vast majority of Pakistanis.

 

[WAJsal]

The main issue is intolerance, obsession, hatred, stupidity. All apply.

 

[Menace2Society]

Incorrect. The main issue is religion(plus the inferiority/superiority complex of Pakistanis) and the traumatic partition.
Imagine a Muslim India. Would Pakistan have a problem with Kashmir then? I think not. As long as we are not Muslim, we won't be treated as equals by the vast majority of Pakistanis.

There was a Muslim controlled sub continent at one point and it was relatively peaceful and produced Taj Mahal.

But Modi along with a billion of Modi's little minions will make sure that will never happen again.

What would Ghandi have done if he was leading India now?

 

[Anuj Tagra]

Problem with Indians is they are always looking for weaknesses when they should be looking for mutual understanding and win-win scenarios.

Pakistan has made enough peace overtures and India has responded back by a campaign of absolutely obnoxious vitriol.

Keeping part of Kashmir has not been good for India's mental health. They would have been better off letting it go for the greater good of the region and their own sanity. Seeing Pakistani flags being waved in Indian territory every month surely is not good for their state of mind and herewith lies the root of the problem.

it wont take much time ti squat a bunch of mosquitoes.

Kashmir does not belong to India.

Jammu & Kashmir belong to Kashmiris, let them decide what they want to be - with Pakistan, India or become independent. Yes it is a disputed territory and with time and patience a solution can be found.

But the immediate steps that India should take is stop her terrorism in Pakistan. Give it 10-15 years of normalization and I am quite sure a newer generation growing up without being victims of Indian sponsored terrorism will be much more flexible to adopting a solution.

Thats not true and not happening.

There was a Muslim controlled sub continent at one point and it was relatively peaceful and produced Taj Mahal.

But Modi along with a billion of other Modi's little minions will make sure that will never happen again.

What would Ghandi have done if he was leading India now?

Panipat mein kya Ghode aur Gadhe larh rahe the kya?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

There was a Muslim controlled sub continent at one point and it was relatively peaceful and produced Taj Mahal.

But Modi along with a billion of other Modi's little minions will make sure that will never happen again.

What would Ghandi have done if he was leading India now?

Peaceful? While Taj Mahal was being constructed, Mughal armies were rampaging in Golconda, Deccan and Gujarat while fighting rebellion in Punjab and KP. The sub continent was not Muslim controlled anyway. South of Deccan were Hindu kingdoms, as were in Assam, NE, Nepal, and Dharmic ones in Myanmar, Ceylon(Sri Lanka) etc.

And yes, we won't let a repeat of Islamic rule in what remains of India anymore. Lessons have been learnt. Perhaps if your dearest mosques were torn down one by one and temples/gurdwaras created in their place you would know. I can leave other atrocities aside. But never mind. The past is past, but lessons are learnt.

Gandhi would have killed himself. He did call Muslims as bullies and Hindus as cowards(his words not mine) but even he would have been heartbroken to see that more Muslims kill Muslims today.

 

[Anuj Tagra]

Religion is the fundamental issue.

Basically all those who converted for xyz reasons lost their hukum and prsoperity and have trouble acknowledging the meagre size of their hukum now.

 

[GURU DUTT]

1. Akhand Bharat is only a term used by RSS to troll Pakistanis. No body in India want to live with Pakistan. You take my word, 90% of Indians including me will fight against this move like TTP if some Govt. will try it.

2. India or R&AW dont have capability to motivate terrorism in Pakistan, We are KAFIR for hardliner muslims so taking us as friend or guide will lead them to hell as per Quran. We can only pretend as supporting them to tease you, nothing more; because they themselves would not like to get our support. They are MUSLIM first and balochistani afterwords, and TTP consider themselves the purest Muslims. All terrorism and insurgency in Pakistan are only violent efforts to prove oneself more muslim than others, nothing else.

3. Of course R&AW have its assets in Pakistan, but that is only for getting the information about terrorists operating in India. Beyond that, we neither have will nor power.

4. What most Pakistanis (at least those are in PDF) think about India is pure BS, nothing else, and that is because you are incompetent to see the world with out Quranic lenses. We know that nobody in this world can do anything on that aspect, so you please live in your own hell and let us live in our own........ PEACEFULLY

toatlly and 100% agreed withevery word of yours but the main problem with them is there ego which will not let them stop the games they always played with india deu to backing of there " freinds not masters and all weather freinds"and since now they have neuklear umbrella they think its there right to do so as banya hindu india will not have guts to retaliate

but deu to there loss of trust and blind support of there so called "friends not masters"and internal law and order situation , corruption and destruction of all the state institutions which they have lost all control they (pakistani establishmentand there media stooges ) owt of frsutation are blaming indians for every thing as they think deu to there anty india campain they just might be able to win back trust of there own people and re unite them as anty-indiaism is the onli glue which is still keeping them united

 

[OrionHunter]

Pakistan has made enough peace overtures and India has responded back by a campaign of absolutely obnoxious vitriol.

And all this while your Establishment has been using its mercenary terrorists to wage a proxy war against India for the past three decades. Those 24 terror training camps in Azad Kashmir and an equal number of 'launch pads' for infiltrating them into India, stick out like a sore thumb that prevents any rapprochement with Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to stop playing the terror game. Blaming India for everything is what a loser would do.