Is secularnationalist a propagandist or a nationalist?

[Zhukov]

Pakistan is far from being a proper Islamic country (what is one of them?), the so called religious people I met are among the worst and the 'libs' on the other end (far) are kunts too.

The middle bunch are okay but the above steal the limelight by being loud assholes.

Extremists are wrong on both end of the scale. Either being Religious extremists or Secular reactive. But still being extremist of views is one thing, Taking up arms and start killing those who disagree is something on a whole lot different level. Don't we have the guts to Speak it out loud to speak against Mass Murderers who justify killing of innocent civilians? Why is it always Secular Vs Islam Discussion when the question is about Loyalties and Legitimacy of people based on their personal beliefs?

Ji ji sir badikhlaqi mujh me hai kay me majmooi surat e haal ko samne rakh kar post karta hon.
tanqeed kay liye siwaye ek nazariye ko mukhtas kardia gaya hai mashray me baaqi sab insani huqooq or roshan khayali kay dairay me ata hai.

thats better.
Look at the title of the Post and the topic under discussion. He asked about Loyalty of some one based on his Belief about Islam. And the answer was on that specific post only. Is there anything else under discussion in this post?
Again Stereotyping and Judgemental?
Is Society under discussion here? Society Values and Ethics are part of his question?
and do you disagree ke ye NAZRIA ke "mere beliefs ke ilawa dusra Qaabil e Nafrat hai" Bilkul Ghalat aur Qaabil e Muzammat hai? Nafrat choro yahan to Baat hi Qaabil e Qatal se Shuru hoti hai.
Stick to this point only. the very attitude reflected in the original post.
What makes you become instantly judgemental about some random person on internet just by one answer to a specific question? Think about it, that's exactly what i am talking about. aik dusrey se bahs kar kuch nai hona. this trend is pushing us back.
And what makes you so defensive if i criticized Militancy? I didnt even named anyone or any organization. I just pointed out the trend and here came the bashing, that verifies what i am talking about is true.

 

[El Sidd]

thats better.
Look at the title of the Post and the topic under discussion. He asked about Loyalty of some one based on his Belief about Islam. And the answer was on that specific post only. Is there anything else under discussion in this post?
Again Stereotyping and Judgemental?
Is Society under discussion here? Society Values and Ethics are part of his question?
and do you disagree ke ye NAZRIA ke "mere beliefs ke ilawa dusra Qaabil e Nafrat hai" Bilkul Ghalat aur Qaabil e Muzammat hai? Nafrat choro yahan to Baat hi Qaabil e Qatal se Shuru hoti hai.
Stick to this point only. the very attitude reflected in the original post.
What makes you become instantly judgemental about some random person on internet just by one answer to a specific question? Think about it, that's exactly what i am talking about. aik dusrey se bahs kar kuch nai hona. this trend is pushing us back.
And what makes you so defensive if i criticized Militancy? I didnt even named anyone or any organization. I just pointed out the trend and here came the bashing, that verifies what i am talking about is true.

I would love to discuss in details but can you please tell me why every militant religious organization eventually turns out to be a wing of aspiring secular political party?

We are not discussing the random in-sensitivities of religious people who go into defensive mood even by the slightest hint but that is nature at work. People residing in tropical climates do tend to be religious in nature. Be it Pakistan or South America.

As for your paranoia of being pushed back. Any society is judged by the laws it passes. Religious parties do not make a sizeable percentile in the lawmaking body yet the most recent passed law was about the finality of the prophethood. Now what inspired that lawmaking? Can you shed some light on that.

As far as secularism is concerned. It is nothing but a front for towing the foreign policy of India because we have a market of 1.4 billion people and everyone wants to be rich.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

May be you are right

He(lastofpatriot) is just afraid chicken, he is hiding behind fake account, he can’t argue due to his nature and we can imagine his suffering & his job of washing American dogs, I never saw such frustrated guy. He is real hypocrite , he abuses muhajir while technically he himself is muhajir in America. He live in western country, while he talk against western style in Pakistan.
I had Jamat -e- Islamic friend and he is Hafiz too, he went with me in cinema many times, also he went with me to watch stage drama on first row, I said him he should not do this as he is hafiz Quran but he said “sab chalta hai”. His mobile SD card was also filled with pornn movies , while he teaches Quran to children after “Asar” in mosque. And he is very “Masoom “ noble, and pure man in eyes of others.

 

[313ghazi]

Assalam O Alaikum
I have been reading this forum since 2012 but now decided to join it because i wanted to ask a question.
Here we have a member called secular nationalist who claimed to be a secular and nationalist but promote western values and talk against religion.How can someone call himself a nationalist when he is against the national values which are based on islam?
Such individuals are very rare in pakistani society who claim to be patriots but are against the norms of society.Is he pursuing some foreign hidden agenda or propaganda here?

We shouldn't have topics discussing individual members.

Pakistan has Islamic values? Last time I checked Pakistan exhibits none of these values so not sure what is your baseline for judging how Islamically Pakistani someone is.

What is your defenition of a patriot? Have secularists ever done suicide bombings or joined TTP? Where is the bloodshed and anti Pakistani narrative coming from? Pretty sure someone who spends more time on other aspects of life is a more rounded complete person who contributes to society than chest thumping judgemental religious zealot who spends all their time reading a foreign language without understanding the deeper meaning.These people don't know how to do life and damn sure not an example to follow.

There are far more important issues to deal with than someones faith. Decades of fake maulana influence has caused this strange mindset. Only Syria is worse and look what happened to them. Follow Jinnah's example.

Comments like this are really unhelpful too. The simple answer to the bold bit would be that you're checking in the wrong places.

As for the virtues of secularists, lets not even go there. A suicide bomber can kill dozens of people, our secular politicans are responsible for the deaths of millions and misery in almost every life in our country and even outside it.

This kind of talk doesn't make 1 more righteous than the other.

 

[SecularNationalist]

He(lastofpatriot) is just afraid chicken, he is hiding behind fake account, he can’t argue due to his nature and we can imagine his suffering & his job of washing American dogs, I never saw such frustrated guy. He is real hypocrite , he abuses muhajir while technically he himself is muhajir in America. He live in western country, while he talk against western style in Pakistan.
I had Jamat -e- Islamic friend and he is Hafiz too, he went with me in cinema many times, also he went with me to watch stage drama on first row, I said him he should not do this as he is hafiz Quran but he said “sab chalta hai”. His mobile SD card was also filled with pornn movies , while he teaches Quran to children after “Asar” in mosque. And he is very “Masoom “ noble, and pure man in eyes of others.

Unfortunately thats the character of most pakistanis. Hypocrisy is big in our society.And you know when such people teach quran to kids there is a great tendency of pedophilia and child abuse.

 

[Samlee]

Assalam O Alaikum
I have been reading this forum since 2012 but now decided to join it because i wanted to ask a question.
Here we have a member called secular nationalist who claimed to be a secular and nationalist but promote western values and talk against religion.How can someone call himself a nationalist when he is against the national values which are based on islam?
Such individuals are very rare in pakistani society who claim to be patriots but are against the norms of society.Is he pursuing some foreign hidden agenda or propaganda here?

Look Man Even I Disagree With A Lot Of His Views But I Have never Seen Anything Offensive In Any Of His Posts Eversince I Started Posting.

Learn To Live and Let Live

 

[EasyNow]

Assalam O Alaikum
I have been reading this forum since 2012 but now decided to join it because i wanted to ask a question.
Here we have a member called secular nationalist who claimed to be a secular and nationalist but promote western values and talk against religion.How can someone call himself a nationalist when he is against the national values which are based on islam?
Such individuals are very rare in pakistani society who claim to be patriots but are against the norms of society.Is he pursuing some foreign hidden agenda or propaganda here?

Give me a break, nationalism and secularism are made for each other.

The real question is, can you be a true Muslim and a nationalist? Can a mullah be trusted to put his country before the ummah??

 

[BHarwana]

Hi I had an initial engagement with him where he and I had a bad start. Some incident I don't want to recall but now he and I got along quite well.

Now about the concerned question you are asking. To make it simple we all here are to some extent bias in one way or another we all do propaganda towards our own thinking. To be neutral and totally in the middle is some thing very difficult, no matter how much you try I the end you will to some extent side to your original thinking. There are many people who do propaganda here and there are many who try to promote certain goals.

The end statement is we are a diverse nation and we have many differences among us but we also have many common things. Some will promote western values and others will promote core culture but which ever side we belong we are pulled by that school of thought. Let's tolerate each other and let's develop the habit of listening to each other. We can disagree with one and agree with other what is important to understand is that each think is coming from some kind of roots and backgrounds and there is always a concern behind every prospect which a certain member is trying to depict. Let's take criticism because it helps you improve your mistakes. With out opposition you will never know what is good or bad and what are the results of certain actions.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Well I dont agree with all of his politics and in general for the most part the guy. is Pakistani nationalist.Note I am not a Secularists nor a wahhabitsts I think both sides are crap but this guy I have seen has never bad mouthed Pakistan in fact defends it here on this fourm unlike those PPP "Desi Liberal" diaspora c...nts

 

[BHarwana]

Well I dont agree with all of his politics and in general for the most part the guy. is Pakistani nationalist.Note I am not a Secularists nor a wahhabitsts I think both sides are crap but this guy I have seen has never bad mouthed Pakistan in fact defends it here on this fourm unlike those PPP "Desi Liberal" diaspora c...nts

The people engaged with PPP or PMLN or PTI they all have a goal my friend and one must always keep that into account. Pakistan just had an elections. Although the elections are over but the fever is still there and in some time people will get over it. We here are concerned but walk to you nearest market and see people there doing their business as normal every one is busy and soon this whole thing will dissolve into normal life. We have to get along with each other. Tolerance is something we need to embed in ourselves.

 

[Yankee-stani]

The people engaged with PPP or PMLN or PTI they all have a goal my friend and one must always keep that into account. Pakistan just had an elections. Although the elections are over but the fever is still there and in some time people will get over it. We here are concerned but walk to you nearest market and see people there doing their business as normal every one is busy and soon this whole thing will dissolve into normal life. We have to get along with each other. Tolerance is something we need to embed in ourselves.

Agreed but please get rid of those "wahhabist moulvi" scums tho

 

[BHarwana]

Agreed but please get rid of those "wahhabist moulvi" scums tho

Why get rid of them and why are they scums?
Sorry my friend this country is for everyone be it you or me we have to tolerate each other. Tell me what is the difference between us or them or him. We all are Pakistanis. The division of thinking never represents us but our nationality is what represents us. If tomorrow India will attack us a wahabbi will die saving a sunni and a sunni will die saving a shia because we all are a nation. I don't know how can we fight with each other when we already have our enemies sitting out side our borders let's direct our hate where it is needed.

 

[SecularNationalist]

The division of thinking never represents us but our nationality is what represents us. If tomorrow India will attack us a wahabbi will die saving a sunni and a sunni will die saving a shia because we all are a nation. I don't know how can we fight with each other when we already have our enemies sitting out side our borders let's direct our hate where it is needed.

And that,s why i promote nationalism because nationalism unite people whereas extreme religious thoughts and sects divide us.

 

[BHarwana]

And that,s why i promote nationalism because nationalism unite people whereas extreme religious thoughts and sects divide us.

That is where you are wrong. Nationalism can exist along religion because Islam say clearly to obey the law of the land.
This is the issue you are trying to promote nationalism but ignoring that those mullah are also your national. First you have to understand your nation before labeling someone national or anti. If your nation has religious elements then your nationalism includes them so to be national you have to accept them and take them along with you. Just an example if your arm gets injured and it will take some time to recover and it making you take few leaves from job, are you going to cut your arm to maintain your attendance on job? Nope you will have to wait for your arm to get better. In the same way you think Mullah are not good and they think Advance makhlook is not good but in the end we all are one body and we have to move together this is something we all have to add to our objective thinking.

 

[Menace2Society]

A secular mullah would be the perfect combo.