Is Pakistan ready for change?

[Desert Fox]

Mao Zedong thought and Deng Xiaoping theory

Is there an English translation?

 

[Skies]

Telephone company. Public ownership. Cost to make calls exorbitant. To get a line you had to wait 3 months. To pay the bill you had to stand in a long queue.Service was terrible. You paid over the top and the customer after being fleeced had to say thank you.

In this subcontinent, we need to be paid our wage in hours, so that the time looks valuable.

 

[艹艹艹]

Is there an English translation?

selected works of Deng Xiaoping I-II-III
selected works of MAO TSE-YUNG I-II-III-IV

 

[Solomon2]

Yes, what Thatcher did was amazing. In today's era, the company that competes best isn't necessarily the local one. If you can work with local market dynamics and ship stuff cheaply, then your company might best them. The construction of CPEC, by lowering transportation costs, will allow Chinese manufacturers to compete more efficiently with Pakistani ones. I imagine any Pakistani who can influence the Pakistani government and public to smooth the way for the Chinese doubtless will be - or perhaps already is - well compensated for their efforts.

Of course, one could argue that it also works the other way, that Pakistani manufacturers will rise to the challenge by improving product quality, etc. to keep their markets and home and even challenge Chinese manufacturers in China itself. However, I think the theory of comparative advantage wins out and at least at first what we'll see are Pakistani mangoes, sugar, grains, etc. rolling to Beijing while Chinese cars and appliances dominate Pakistan's consumer markets.

What the Chinese can't sell to Pakistan they will simply export through Gwadar, so a Thatcher-scenario economic meltdown of Pakistani consumer purchasing power doesn't worry them - not as long as law and order along the line are assured. As I understand it, long-term security arrangements for CPEC are the main sticking points between Pakistan and China at the moment, right?

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Kaptaan , my young brother, firstly thank you for tagging this person....


Great thread you started. Highly relevant and timely!


However, to give input requires some courage on my part; for as a guest here on PDF it's difficult to be too forward in ones views.

Difficult.


The parallel you drew with UK is rather irrelevant in my humble opinion.

The context is too different and the outcome of the UK reforms is not that beneficiary to the UK populace as whole. It benefited the elite and big global capital. If you look over the pond you will see the same thing in action around the same time with the Cousins. Thachter was agent of global capital elite's.

But the culutral reforms that you rightfully highligthed are valid points to take the UK working class away from class warfare to more aligned with the changing world. France is still caught in the old priviledged world. My small country, as always, pulled this one off rather well. But the Dutch are Dutch then..


Coming back to your old country, Pakistan, I have always implored Pak brothers to follow the Chinese Model...I have consisently said to learn from China..both from Dragon's success and PRC's mistakes.

China follows National Economic Model...this is the outcome of deep study of the modern economic frameworks...adopted to the unique Chinese needs.

The Chinese leadership directed the diligent Chinese scholars to study both Capitalistic and Socialistic economic models. The result is the Chinese Economic Model. This is the reasons that China pulled out millions out of poverty in a couple of decades...never happened before in human history.

Now what is the situation of your old country. It is, just like China 30 years back, a civilisational state on the verge of making a fundmental decision in national life.

As a feudal society it is still run by a pyramid power architecture...one side is the organised state and on the other you have tribes, clans and some urban organisation.

This is Mao moment for Pakistan.

What Mao did with his shock therapy changed feudal China into a new society.

The following leaders built upon those foundation. I have mixed feelings about Mao and have not formed final opinion yet. The reason being the demolition of Taoist temples and loss of many precious manuscripts...but then as a Taoist I am biased.

At this stage of development, Pakistan is 30 years behind China. This is a blessing for Pak if there are some brains in the Pak state to leverage it. It is curse if things remain the way they are.

Blessing:

Becuase Pak can start with Green Field approach..given there is practically all that needs to be brought to modernity. Hence a deep study of Chinese Model and cherry picking what will work best for Pak. A Chinese Development Model with Pakistani Characteristics..if you will.

By doing this you can plan and execute industrial, social and economic development to achieve in a decade what others took much more. Would require 5 Five Years plans executed by the Pak State and the credit can be taken by the political classes. Win-win.

By designing and integerating your economic model in synergy with Chinese you create a great leverage.


Curse:

The Dragon is Awakening and the Civilisational thrust is towards Re-birth of the Middle Kingdom...nothing and I mean nothing can or will stand in its way. It is evident both in material and meta-material dialectics of the common Chinese let alone the CCP and PRC.

If your country will remain in its pathetic lethargy (do forgive harshness) then you will remain where you are and just consume the Chinese products without any value addition from your end. Besides with current mismanagement levels your population will explode even further.

You have two existential threats. India and population explotion. Poverity breeds poverty.


Which ever way you choose... Pak is bound to live in the Chinese World...as is entire Eurasia, Africa and Pacific Rim.


What is the need of the HOUR?


1. A compelling National Narrative which breaks free from artifical stories that emerge in the early 80's...

2. Reclaiming your 7000+ years Heritage... (not just IVC... you go way back!!!)

3. 5 Five Years Plans executed by the Professionals of the Pak State...with credit taken by the political classes...regardless which political party rules.

4. Immediate introduction of the Population Act i.e. max two childeren.

5. A Pakistan National Economic Model.

6. Equal rights for women and their full participation in economy.

7. A million Professionals of Pak State becoming fluent in Mandrin by 2020.


Adversity is great, but Pak Spirit is greater... Time for Development and Progress. It is really a Choice.


Will Pak State make this choice?


@Shotgunner51 @TaiShang @Economic superpower @cnleio @long_ @Two @Chinese-Dragon @beijingwalker @AndrewJin @cirr @ahojunk

@PaklovesTurkiye @Pakistan First @MastanKhan @Mentee @LA se Karachi @Mugwop

 

[SBD-3]

This follows from another thread > https://defence.pk/threads/can-pak-ban-china.454561/

UK 1979.

Telephone company. Public ownership. Cost to make calls exorbitant. To get a line you had to wait 3 months. To pay the bill you had to stand in a long queue.Service was terrible. You paid over the top and the customer after being fleeced had to say thank you.

Electricy company. Public ownership. As a kid in 1970s I remember doing my homework using candles to light my bedroom. The problem was the public electric corporations were required to buy coal for power generation from another monopoly. No coal and no lights.

British Coal. Public ownership. 100,000s of working class people worked in public coal mines. Entire towns called "pit towns" depended on the miners. Every third man in these town was a miner. Generations before them since the industrial age began had worked in these pit towns. The mines had long ago stopped being efficient. Too much manpower working well below efficiency but with jobs guranteed, lack of modern technology, working seams that long ago had become uneconomical made the coal twice more expensive than external market. The miners would go on strike regularly decreasing the pathetic productivity even further. The consumer suffered and government bailed out the billions lost of every year.

British Leyland Cars. Public ownership.Cars like Austin Montego, Allegro were byword for poor build quality, rusting within year of purchase, expensive. BLC employed 100,000 of workers in Birmingham most of who sat around fiddling their fingers or having tea and smoking breaks. Again customer being punished with terrible product and government dishing out billions to cover the lost making concerns.

This pattern subsisted across the economy. Millions of people working below par, producing below par prodocts at prices that were too high. The customer suffered with terible choice of product and government suffered billions in having to cover the loss making concerns. The problem was protectionism, too much regulation, too many restrictions. This created a closed off economy that was simply uncompetitive in the world. How was this sustained? By borrowing. UK even had to go to IMF for loans to keep it going from bankrupt as the economy was bleeding the country dry.

May 1979. Margaret Thatcher becomes PM. She sets about restructuring the British economy. To put it bluntly she declares that no protection will be afforded to any part of the economy. The door will open to full competition. Anything that is not able to compete will be allowed to die. The fittest will survive and will grow stronger and faster.

United Kingdom went through profound change. Suddenly all electric companies were privatized. They then sacked excess workers. They went from being fat cows to lean mean athletes. They could buy coal from any source which meant they scoured the world to get imported coal at 40% that British Coal sold it at. The coal industry died overnight. Million plus miners became unemployed. Entite pit towns died and turned into ghost towns. As competition killed 70% of the economic concerns it led to mass unemployment. There was mass civil disorder leading to almost civil war. Entire cities were almost laid to waste.

For example Sheffield went from one of the largest steel producers to seeing most of the mills close down. PM Margaret Thatcher faced incredible pressure to change her policy of "open free trade and competion". By early 1980s almost 25% of the labour force had become reduandant or semi employed as company after company went bankrupt. Facing millions of unemployed workers fighting broke out. Thatcher faced pressure from her ministers to change course. This is what was happening across the country.

There was war on the streets. The police fought running battles with umemployed miners and other works who opposed the opening up of the economy as they knew it would mean their jobs would go. With her ministers starting to weaken in their resolve top open the UK economy PM Thatcher showed what true leadership means, This is when she gave this "this lady does no U-turns" in reply to the advice her ministers gave to change her policy. She persisted.

She then moved to British Airways which like PIA was losing money every year. It was privatized and 80% of workers sacked to turn the company into world winner it is today. The result of this was lie moving all the weeds and then allowing the fresh green healthy saplings take route. Thatcher concentrated on creating a open level playing field where only the fittest would surive. Efficiency, innovation and competiveness was the new mantra. Nothing was holy. If it was not fit it died.

This led to new generation of entreprenuers who took advantage of the new openess to build new companies and compete with the best in the world.


This is exactly what Pakistan needs to do. In those days all the strikers used to complain about Australian Coal, Japanese, German Car manfacturers, South Korean TV manufactuers. The truth was it was not their fault. The fault was within UK which could not compet with them.

Today Pakistan can complain about Chinese imporets or open up and join in the race to be best. Out of it will come a new breed of companies and businessmen who will stand o their feet and compete with the world. Or are people worried that Pakistani's can't compete with the world? Yes, in the short term like UK in 1980s it will suffer but from the other end will come a new rejuvenated country and economy. Pakistan needs to grab the Dragon by the tail, learn from it and outrun it.

Has Pakistan got what it takes? I certainly think so.

@Desert Fox @Chinese-Dragon @AndrewJin @Sinopakfriend

UK since 1950- A war economy
UK 1950-1970s a wana be manufacturing economy.
UK 1970-2016 A services economy
UK during brexit- A confused economy
UK post Brexit- A pretty much fcked up economy.

 

[mansoor raja]

Is internet so slow in USA that you have not heard that Thatcher has been dead for few years now?

We are far ahead of our enemy India. I don't think we have to change anything. We just have to follow up with more thrust

 

[TheNoob]

People are willing, Politicians are not.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

This follows from another thread > https://defence.pk/threads/can-pak-ban-china.454561/

UK 1979.

Telephone company. Public ownership. Cost to make calls exorbitant. To get a line you had to wait 3 months. To pay the bill you had to stand in a long queue.Service was terrible. You paid over the top and the customer after being fleeced had to say thank you.

Electricy company. Public ownership. As a kid in 1970s I remember doing my homework using candles to light my bedroom. The problem was the public electric corporations were required to buy coal for power generation from another monopoly. No coal and no lights.

British Coal. Public ownership. 100,000s of working class people worked in public coal mines. Entire towns called "pit towns" depended on the miners. Every third man in these town was a miner. Generations before them since the industrial age began had worked in these pit towns. The mines had long ago stopped being efficient. Too much manpower working well below efficiency but with jobs guranteed, lack of modern technology, working seams that long ago had become uneconomical made the coal twice more expensive than external market. The miners would go on strike regularly decreasing the pathetic productivity even further. The consumer suffered and government bailed out the billions lost of every year.

British Leyland Cars. Public ownership.Cars like Austin Montego, Allegro were byword for poor build quality, rusting within year of purchase, expensive. BLC employed 100,000 of workers in Birmingham most of who sat around fiddling their fingers or having tea and smoking breaks. Again customer being punished with terrible product and government dishing out billions to cover the lost making concerns.

This pattern subsisted across the economy. Millions of people working below par, producing below par prodocts at prices that were too high. The customer suffered with terible choice of product and government suffered billions in having to cover the loss making concerns. The problem was protectionism, too much regulation, too many restrictions. This created a closed off economy that was simply uncompetitive in the world. How was this sustained? By borrowing. UK even had to go to IMF for loans to keep it going from bankrupt as the economy was bleeding the country dry.

May 1979. Margaret Thatcher becomes PM. She sets about restructuring the British economy. To put it bluntly she declares that no protection will be afforded to any part of the economy. The door will open to full competition. Anything that is not able to compete will be allowed to die. The fittest will survive and will grow stronger and faster.

United Kingdom went through profound change. Suddenly all electric companies were privatized. They then sacked excess workers. They went from being fat cows to lean mean athletes. They could buy coal from any source which meant they scoured the world to get imported coal at 40% that British Coal sold it at. The coal industry died overnight. Million plus miners became unemployed. Entite pit towns died and turned into ghost towns. As competition killed 70% of the economic concerns it led to mass unemployment. There was mass civil disorder leading to almost civil war. Entire cities were almost laid to waste.

For example Sheffield went from one of the largest steel producers to seeing most of the mills close down. PM Margaret Thatcher faced incredible pressure to change her policy of "open free trade and competion". By early 1980s almost 25% of the labour force had become reduandant or semi employed as company after company went bankrupt. Facing millions of unemployed workers fighting broke out. Thatcher faced pressure from her ministers to change course. This is what was happening across the country.

There was war on the streets. The police fought running battles with umemployed miners and other works who opposed the opening up of the economy as they knew it would mean their jobs would go. With her ministers starting to weaken in their resolve top open the UK economy PM Thatcher showed what true leadership means, This is when she gave this "this lady does no U-turns" in reply to the advice her ministers gave to change her policy. She persisted.

She then moved to British Airways which like PIA was losing money every year. It was privatized and 80% of workers sacked to turn the company into world winner it is today. The result of this was lie moving all the weeds and then allowing the fresh green healthy saplings take route. Thatcher concentrated on creating a open level playing field where only the fittest would surive. Efficiency, innovation and competiveness was the new mantra. Nothing was holy. If it was not fit it died.

This led to new generation of entreprenuers who took advantage of the new openess to build new companies and compete with the best in the world.


This is exactly what Pakistan needs to do. In those days all the strikers used to complain about Australian Coal, Japanese, German Car manfacturers, South Korean TV manufactuers. The truth was it was not their fault. The fault was within UK which could not compet with them.

Today Pakistan can complain about Chinese imporets or open up and join in the race to be best. Out of it will come a new breed of companies and businessmen who will stand o their feet and compete with the world. Or are people worried that Pakistani's can't compete with the world? Yes, in the short term like UK in 1980s it will suffer but from the other end will come a new rejuvenated country and economy. Pakistan needs to grab the Dragon by the tail, learn from it and outrun it.

Has Pakistan got what it takes? I certainly think so.

@Desert Fox @Chinese-Dragon @AndrewJin @Sinopakfriend

Great post brother Kaptaan. Pakistan IS already changing and for the better too. Problem is the old guard of the ruling elite find it hard to digest.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Will Pak State make this choice?

We have to...there is no other ifs and buts....Time is now....It is now or never....

Post was awesome of yours ....
Accept my all respect for your such sincerity towards Pakistan....

 

[Lagay Raho]

We are far ahead of our enemy India. I don't think we have to change anything. We just have to follow up with more thrust

we have to change everything...

 

[VCheng]

It all depends on what Pakistan decides to do. For every Pakistani wanting change, there are several who do not want liberty or fair play to establish themselves:

Sub continent is not Scandinavia. South Asia is a wild and dirty place. There is age of propaganda not information sharing here. The principles of liberty and fairplay mean you get slaughtered up like a squeeling pig.
India got it right. The directionless and empty vessels the masses are need to be put in place. Media should be a total gov mouthpiece. Direct the masses rather than a collection of gibberish dictate the state policy. Develop the macro before micro.
The problem in Pakistan is few people on high horses who eat baked beans from tins and talk about 'social injustice and democratic values'

Is this the same country that can change while doing more of the same?

 

[Banglar Bir]

This follows from another thread > https://defence.pk/threads/can-pak-ban-china.454561/

UK 1979.

Telephone company. Public ownership. Cost to make calls exorbitant. To get a line you had to wait 3 months. To pay the bill you had to stand in a long queue.Service was terrible. You paid over the top and the customer after being fleeced had to say thank you.

Electricy company. Public ownership. As a kid in 1970s I remember doing my homework using candles to light my bedroom. The problem was the public electric corporations were required to buy coal for power generation from another monopoly. No coal and no lights.

British Coal. Public ownership. 100,000s of working class people worked in public coal mines. Entire towns called "pit towns" depended on the miners. Every third man in these town was a miner. Generations before them since the industrial age began had worked in these pit towns. The mines had long ago stopped being efficient. Too much manpower working well below efficiency but with jobs guranteed, lack of modern technology, working seams that long ago had become uneconomical made the coal twice more expensive than external market. The miners would go on strike regularly decreasing the pathetic productivity even further. The consumer suffered and government bailed out the billions lost of every year.

British Leyland Cars. Public ownership.Cars like Austin Montego, Allegro were byword for poor build quality, rusting within year of purchase, expensive. BLC employed 100,000 of workers in Birmingham most of who sat around fiddling their fingers or having tea and smoking breaks. Again customer being punished with terrible product and government dishing out billions to cover the lost making concerns.

This pattern subsisted across the economy. Millions of people working below par, producing below par prodocts at prices that were too high. The customer suffered with terible choice of product and government suffered billions in having to cover the loss making concerns. The problem was protectionism, too much regulation, too many restrictions. This created a closed off economy that was simply uncompetitive in the world. How was this sustained? By borrowing. UK even had to go to IMF for loans to keep it going from bankrupt as the economy was bleeding the country dry.

May 1979. Margaret Thatcher becomes PM. She sets about restructuring the British economy. To put it bluntly she declares that no protection will be afforded to any part of the economy. The door will open to full competition. Anything that is not able to compete will be allowed to die. The fittest will survive and will grow stronger and faster.

United Kingdom went through profound change. Suddenly all electric companies were privatized. They then sacked excess workers. They went from being fat cows to lean mean athletes. They could buy coal from any source which meant they scoured the world to get imported coal at 40% that British Coal sold it at. The coal industry died overnight. Million plus miners became unemployed. Entite pit towns died and turned into ghost towns. As competition killed 70% of the economic concerns it led to mass unemployment. There was mass civil disorder leading to almost civil war. Entire cities were almost laid to waste.

For example Sheffield went from one of the largest steel producers to seeing most of the mills close down. PM Margaret Thatcher faced incredible pressure to change her policy of "open free trade and competion". By early 1980s almost 25% of the labour force had become reduandant or semi employed as company after company went bankrupt. Facing millions of unemployed workers fighting broke out. Thatcher faced pressure from her ministers to change course. This is what was happening across the country.

There was war on the streets. The police fought running battles with umemployed miners and other works who opposed the opening up of the economy as they knew it would mean their jobs would go. With her ministers starting to weaken in their resolve top open the UK economy PM Thatcher showed what true leadership means, This is when she gave this "this lady does no U-turns" in reply to the advice her ministers gave to change her policy. She persisted.

She then moved to British Airways which like PIA was losing money every year. It was privatized and 80% of workers sacked to turn the company into world winner it is today. The result of this was lie moving all the weeds and then allowing the fresh green healthy saplings take route. Thatcher concentrated on creating a open level playing field where only the fittest would surive. Efficiency, innovation and competiveness was the new mantra. Nothing was holy. If it was not fit it died.

This led to new generation of entreprenuers who took advantage of the new openess to build new companies and compete with the best in the world.


This is exactly what Pakistan needs to do. In those days all the strikers used to complain about Australian Coal, Japanese, German Car manfacturers, South Korean TV manufactuers. The truth was it was not their fault. The fault was within UK which could not compet with them.

Today Pakistan can complain about Chinese imporets or open up and join in the race to be best. Out of it will come a new breed of companies and businessmen who will stand o their feet and compete with the world. Or are people worried that Pakistani's can't compete with the world? Yes, in the short term like UK in 1980s it will suffer but from the other end will come a new rejuvenated country and economy. Pakistan needs to grab the Dragon by the tail, learn from it and outrun it.

Has Pakistan got what it takes? I certainly think so.

@Desert Fox @Chinese-Dragon @AndrewJin @Sinopakfriend

If Bangladesh, once termed as THE BOTTOMLESS BASKET, strating from a war raveged destroyed infrastructure,looting of all our good and Despite all odds,, could attain self suffiency, and acheive a groth rate of more than 7%, increasing with every passing year,
In my openion Pakistan can do far far more.All you need to do is to overcome your narrow mentality, by blaming the relegion only,WILL TURN OUT TO BE NEGATIVE..
Empowerment of women, as they consists half of your populition and workforce, and eductional reforms specially for the under privilaged class. Privatizition of off alll losing industries, are onlya few indicators.
INSHALLAH YOU ALL WILL DEFINITELY MARCH TOWARDS PROGRESS.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Great thread you started. Highly relevant and timely

Thank you.

difficult to be too forward in ones views.

Please do. If everybody sang the same song on PDF there would no piont in coming to here. I might as well shout against the wall and listen to my own echoes. No need to be apologetic for holding a view differant from others.

The parallel you drew with UK is rather irrelevant

The analogy I was trying draw was not in the specifics of what UK went through but more to do with the fact that change is painful. And opening up to Chinese economy via CPEC is going to usher in major changes. However with that will come opportunities as well. My point is Pakistan ought to grab the opportunity and compete with best to come out a rejuvenated country. As you state to draw synergy with the Chinese economy and see that as opportunity and not as loss.

UK post Brexit- A pretty much fcked up economy.

I always knew the meaning of the word "bad" but then I came across it being used in sentances by Rap Niggers and was rather confused. Soon it dawned on me that "bad" meant "good" in their newly convulated English.

Seeing as that the British economy is out performing almost all of Europe I therefore assume just like the Niggers say "bad" means "good" in your case "fcked" means "great".

If Bangladesh

Yes indeed verey true. I think was it Kissinger who called Bangladesh "International basketcase". You are very right that Bangladesh has pulled a miracle and I am inspired by your country. I often disparage your country but without doubt Bangla is going places and more than anything you guy's have my reespect for having leashed the barking dogs who call themselves "mullahs". Muzzle them and then shoot them. The Chinese will tell you. Economy and secularism are the way forward.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

Chinese have helped us a lot, in our difficult times, when no one was there...I don't mind if Pakistan suffers from diminishing local businesses due to Chinese penetration because, as I understand, it is bound to happen to quite good extent but will surely make us competitive too in long term...I agree with Sir @Kaptaan

Pakistanis will never back away from challenge...We will learn from our iron brother and will try our best to outrun them in innovation and tech...

I m not dreaming, It may take decades to occur what I m saying, to come even close at par with China but if Chinese can do it, we can do it too...

No need to panic and get demoralized...Pakistanis will win only from now on...I will personally, love to learn from Chinese tactics and strategy regarding business...China is source of inspiration for world. Pakistan is lucky to have China just up her north...All the best to iron brothers in their shared journey and thanks to China for standing for us when no one was willing.
Pakistan and China will surely come up with win win cooperation just like they came with in shape of CPEC...



@Chinese-Dragon @Sinopakfriend @Shotgunner51 @Mrc