Is China more legitimate than the West?

[mb444]

Legitimacy of a state comes from its people there is no global standard. On the assumption that the Chinese people support its government and in the west people do not support its government system than indeed Chinese system is more legitimate. But my two cent is that comparison of legitimacy is like trying to catch to catch air it can't be done. The barometer to compare does not exist.

 

[Obambam]

Deng Xiaoping was not the worse thing that could happen to China, but he certainly set the stage for ~13 years of moral, spiritual and cultural desertfication (1997 to 2010 under Jiang and Hu, especially Hu / Wen ). His "get rich is glorious" slogan almost destroyed China and would have left China easy prey for Western powers if it was not for the resurgence of foreign policy hawks in CCP including Xi Jinping.

Deng Xiaoping did what was necessary at the time. There are no set rules, only the timing and their will to carry it out. He did that and we got back Hong Kong and Macao. It is now up to Xi Jinping to do what he must do. He too will have his own vision, believes, rules which he will carry out accordingly. We should be thankfull that we have been blessed with good leaders, China is only here because of them.

 

[gambit]

Frankly I prefer the Chinese way of choosing a leader than the American way. While the two American candidates fight over the air for months like the forumers here in every thread, accuse and attack each other every way possible; the Chinese contemplate their next new leader with the utmost dignified perseverance in mind.

The next Chinese leader has been undergone years of scrutinies by people in the knows so that he'll pass the test of time, an Emperor indeed, with dignity and mystique.

The man who'll be the next President in America is like a winner of multiple street fights, has been down the gutters a few time, so to speak. On his inauguration speech comes January you can still hear the coarseness in his voice and a tired look in his face.

You mean only the elites of the Chinese 'Communist' Party through behind closed doors with backstabbing, political maneuverings to gather allies, and to curry favor with the military.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

legitimate to the chinese maybe,but not to the rest of the world,who don't wish to see it exported.In one's own country,whatever floats your boat.But outside no thanks.

 

[JSCh]

Mate - Unless you have something to provide to support your claims, your claim stays lack of credibility, especially with the above link(thanks JsCh for spoon feeding me with the entries above) from wikipedia and the external source quoted in the wikipedia for the below entries.


The CPC uses the nomenklatura method ("list of names" in Soviet terminology) to determine appointments. The nomenklatura system is how a Leninist ruling party staffs the apparat, exercising organizational hegemony over appointments and dominating the political life of the country.

Elections in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People's Congresses of counties (&#21439, cities not divided into districts (不设区的&#24066, city districts (市辖&#21306, townships (&#20065, ethnic townships (民族&#20065, and towns (&#38215 are directly elected.[1] Additionally, village (&#26449 committee members and chairman are directly elected.[3][4] Local People's Congresses have the constitutional authority to recall the heads and deputy heads of government at the provincial level and below.[citation needed]
Village chiefs

Since taking power in 1978, Deng Xiaoping experimented with direct democracy at the local level. Some townships and urban areas also have experimented with direct elections of local government leaders. Villages have been traditionally the lowest level of government in China's complicated hierarchy of governance. In the early 1980s, a few southern villages began implementing "Vote for your Chief" policies, in which free elections are intended to be held for the election of a village chief, who holds a lot of power and influence traditionally in rural society. Many of these elections were successful, involving candidate debates, formal platforms, and the initiation of secret ballot boxes. The suffrage was universal, with all citizens above age 18 having the right to vote and be elected. Such an election comprises usually over no more than 2000 voters, and the first-past-the-post system is used in determining the winner, with no restriction on political affiliation. The elections, held every three years, are always supervised by a higher level of government, usually by a County Government.

Under the Organic Law of Village Committees, all of China's approximately 1 million villages are expected to hold competitive, direct elections for subgovernmental village committees. A 1998 revision to the law called for improvements in the nominating process and enhanced transparency in village committee administration. The revised law also explicitly transferred the power to nominate candidates to villagers themselves, as opposed to village groups or Chinese Communist Party (CCP) branches. According to the Ministry of Civil Affairs, as of 2003 the majority of provinces had carried out at least four or five rounds of village elections.

According to BBC News, state media regularly reports on vote buying and corruption during these elections to discredit wider implementation in higher levels of government.[5]

 

[ahfatzia]

You mean only the elites of the Chinese 'Communist' Party through behind closed doors with backstabbing, political maneuverings to gather allies, and to curry favor with the military.

Seems like you have a lot of experiences in backstabbing so that you see everything through that spectrum. Hmm, perhaps you should visit other country to flush out those political double dealing mentality of yours.

 

[eddieInUK]

Lol, you were still eating each other when civilisation was invented (not by us though, dang middle-easterners)
Of course it will! Western civ is already the right model...and you guys bought it hook, line and sinker...advance our civilization! Thank you! (ps...I don't think you really live in China...or if you do you were educated in the US (use of language) Have you taken any Chinese history classes? My exposure goes to just before Qing.

West robbed all the developing countries, take Africans as slaves to America. Then make two world wars, is it what you said right model ?

 

[JSCh]

Why Chinese has this form of leadership process? Because of history, traditionally Chinese has the imperial examination to choose their leader.

Chinese tradition value doer more than talker.

To become the leader of the people, you have to prove that you are capable. It defy Chinese logic to believe that a popularity contest is a better selection process than a decades spanning, time tested process to validate the candidate.

The process by which the Chinese government chose their leader is a secret. But the leader that got chosen by the process is not a secret. They all have decades of history in the government and their record is there for all to see.

Is it really that unreasonable for Chinese to believe that their leadership process is actually a more reliable system then the haphazard western system?

 

[Oldman1]

West robbed all the developing countries, take Africans as slaves to America. Then make two world wars, is it what you said right model ?

What somebody forgot about Japan which is not part of the West? And don't deny China's past imperialistic designs in Asia.

 

[rcrmj]

You mean only the elites of the Chinese 'Communist' Party through behind closed doors with backstabbing, political maneuverings to gather allies, and to curry favor with the military.

and your master U.S not the same?

 

[JSCh]

This is the problem with PDF members speaking for China who do not actually live in mainland China. Traditional Chinese culture is all but destroyed. It's true. Chinese civilization remains but it is radically different now than compared to pre-1949. Just like 150 years of slavery under Mongol Yuan completely changed China from classical to medieval culture. Those 150 years of humiliation by Western powers and then Japanese Empire, followed by civil war upheaval, has completely changed Chinese culture.

Not saying it's either a bad or good thing. CCP over the past 60 years was the only force that saved China by re-creating it as a mix of Western powers, USSR and Japanese Empire. Overseas Chinese simply fail to understand this until you live in China. For example, we don't use traditional characters and we think all forms of ancestor worship is superstition (don't believe in any spirits, ghosts, luck, qi... whatsoever). We only believe in ethno-nationalism (if you are a good mainland Chinese) or money (if you are a lousy mainland Chinese).

The CCP only temporary halt the practice of Chinese traditions. The Chinese culture lives on. Yes, the past 200 years has irreversibly changed Chinese culture, but that is not the first time Chinese culture faced challenge. Chinese culture is resilient, it always adopt and rise from the ashes stronger than ever time and time again. That is because Chinese culture do not depends on superficial form that you mentioned, it is a world view, a value system. It is Confucianism, Taoism etc. it is the art of war, timeless truth that had stand the test of time.
Today mainland Chinese are very proud of their Chinese heritage. CCP might not openly admit it, but you can deduce it from their action. Let's face it, Chinese culture is what bind the Chinese nation together, it is the value system that most mainland Chinese believe in. That is why, Hu Jintao proposed the national rejuvenation. That is the only way that CCP could keep the mandate of heaven.
So mainland Chinese use simplified Chinese, they write the word in a different way but the meaning is still the same. All the idiom, all the history, all the philosophy that was carried in the Chinese language lives on.
Ancestor worship is just a ritual. Chinese is a collective culture, we seek commonality, we see relative/relationship every where. By recognizing a single common ancestor (黄&#24093 it bind all han Chinese by blood. Do you really think that Chinese truly believe that? but we do it anyway because it work. Do you really think that when a Chinese say "I cannot do this because I cannot face my ancestor", he/she truly believe that he/she is going to meet his/her ancestor after they die?
Ancestor here represent tradition, it show our respect to heritage. By teaching our children to worship ancestor we taught them to respect tradition, to voluntarily abide by the rule of society. That is how, the Chinese emperor of old are able to keep a country that is so vast and populace under control.
Do you really think respect for tradition is dead in China today?
The current all time box office champion in China is painted skin 2 (画皮&#8545. Do you think the Chinese watching it really believe in ghost etc.?
ethno-nationalism! wah! really? Can you explain to me what is ethno-nationalism.

 

[gambit]

and your master U.S not the same?

And if they are, then how can it be: the Chinese contemplate their next new leader with the utmost dignified perseverance in mind. ?

At least the American public have a voice, whereas...

For Complainers, A Stint In China's 'Black Jails' : NPR

Li has repeatedly traveled to Beijing to petition China's central government for help, only to be tossed into secret detention centers.

Li says her longest stints in black jails have lasted 10 days. Her worst experience came in 2009 in a district jail. She demanded that guards give her a written record of her detention. Instead, she says, they tied her up as punishment.

"My hands were tied behind my back and I was handcuffed to a door," Li said angrily. "I stood there for three days and three nights — 72 hours! Other detainees fed me food and water. I lifted my leg to pee or to take a bowel movement with a basin on the floor."

So tell US, do you know any 'black jails' in your town?

Never mind, it was a rhetorical question.

 

[jhungary]

Not every country have a stomach for democaracy, nor not any country need it.

As i said before, China will never have Amerian Style democracy nor will they ever need it, it will do more harm than good if China are govern by the people, rather than govern by a ruler

 

[gpit]

You mean only the elites of the Chinese 'Communist' Party through behind closed doors with backstabbing, political maneuverings to gather allies, and to curry favor with the military.

Without the support as well as the backstabbing, covertly and overtly, of the 1%, no one can be politically maneuvered to be a US president. Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1% | Vanity Fair

And if they are, then how can it be: the Chinese contemplate their next new leader with the utmost dignified perseverance in mind. ?

At least the American public have a voice, whereas...

For Complainers, A Stint In China's 'Black Jails' : NPR

So tell US, do you know any 'black jails' in your town?

Never mind, it was a rhetorical question.

Lawyer Jailed by Chancellor for Failing to Recite Pledge of Allegiance « NMissCommentor

BE IT REMEMBERED, this date, the Court having ordered all present in the courtroom to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegience, and having found that Danny Lampley, Attorney at Law, failed and refused to do so, finds said Danny Lampley to be in criminal contempt of court.

How about below ‘black jails’ in Arizona town?

'Annoying, Offending' Language Online Would Be Crime Under Arizona Bill - Yahoo!



We'd appreciate MODs here only exercise ban instead of arrest.


Back to the topic.

In 1840s, it was legitimate for the westerners to ship opium to China to balance the trade. The West imposed its legitimacy of drug trafficking on to the Chinese people, and so far no apologies have been issued perhaps they think the legitimacy still holds.

Now, the Chinese have their own rights to choose whatever way they like to follow, politically or economically. This is their legitimacy. It has nothing to do with us the outsiders. And, please get it right that the opium days of 1840s have long gone!

 

[gambit]

Without the support as well as the backstabbing, covertly and overtly, of the 1%, no one can be politically maneuvered to be a US president. Of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1% | Vanity Fair

From YOU, who once boasted of enough wealth to live in either US or China but prefers US because of capitalism?

Given any of your wealth away to promote communism lately?

Lawyer Jailed by Chancellor for Failing to Recite Pledge of Allegiance « NMissCommentor

Pledge of Allegiance to country, not to a party. Not the same as in China.

How about below ‘black jails’ in Arizona town?

'Annoying, Offending' Language Online Would Be Crime Under Arizona Bill - Yahoo!

Bill was amended. Try again.