Is ancient India overrated? A mind blowing analysis by Chinese professor

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maratha_Empire



My statement: "Indians and Pakistanis have shared the same piece of land for millennia."
Your Response: "No they have NOT. I am certain non of my people lived anywhere you live. And vice versa to you"
My retort: Maratha Empire that covered large parts of present day Pakistan.

Assuming you draw ancestry from those people who live in Present day Pakistan, the fact that the Marathas ruled parts of Pakistan indicates that at different points in time during the 5 millennia of history of Indian and Pakistani lands, people who were not from bordering areas of the present day India and Pak had lived and intermingled with each other. So to say that Indians and Pakistanis shared the same piece of land would be true.
That would make your statement (highlighted above) false.

Hope its clear enough for you now.

A reliable source please.

 

[Peshwa]

A reliable source please.

I'm not here to spoon feed you.
Follow the thread or do your own homework.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I'm assuming you've missed out on these books then. Or are you going to dismiss these because they don't speak your version of history?

The Maratha tide just about made contact with what was then Punjab and then receded. You can't use that to configure that what is now Pakistan was ruled by Marathas. Your seriously pushing the envelope in your attempt to peddle your narrative.

Note what I said. The operative words were "contact" and "pushing the envelope". Do you know what that means. It means means when people scrape up grains of sugar in a desperate attempt to sugar coat something. Keeping this in mind let me quote from The Cambridge History of India by Sir Richard Burn which is about as impartial a book you are going to get. He is not going to 'sex' up the Afghan side or the Mahratta side as he is impartial as opposed to the other loaded biased book you provided link to.

Using the above as referance I have coloured in red the (below) areas of Punjab to the east of Chenab River that fell under Maratha control in April 1758 and as you can see it only covers the easterly sliver of Pakistan. The Marathas held it exactly, yes exactly for 15 months or 420 days or 10,000 hours as they had their backsides kicked silly by Ahmad Shah Abdali by August 1759. Far from conquest and vanquish this was more like a "foray" and "contact" into what is now Pakistan.

And you want to build a entire philosophy on this 420 days? What did I say about "pushing the envelope"?

 

[Vapnope]

Fair enough, but then I would consider them shortsighted. And I don't think being shortsighted is a compliment, no?

I agree. Fair assessment

 

[Logicaldude]

Where was it before? Lost perhaps? In West Indian islands? In Indonesia? MMmmmmmmm where?

Before pakistan, it was in west pakistan, before than in British India, before that in Sikh confederacy, before that under Delhi based Mughal and other sultanates etc etc...

All of this is recorded history. Why would you ask such assinine questions?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

All of this is recorded history. Why would you ask such assinine questions?

Because everything was preceded by something but we don't go around saying "now". Pakistanis have to learn to get over 1947. It has been nearly 70 years now. Time to move on.

You don't say "now India" do you in recognition of the fact that it was "British India" prior before 1947. UAE does not say "now UAE" since it was made in 1970s. Or Saudia Arabia "now KSA" since it was made in 1930s etc

 

[scorpionx]

Different philosophical schools are inseparable part of Indian civilization. Without mentioning them in detail, their differences with their contemporary or even more ancient counterparts, it's really difficult to realise if Indian civilization is overrated or not.

 

[Peshwa]

Note what I said. The operative words were "contact" and "pushing the envelope". Do you know what that means. It means means when people scrape up grains of sugar in a desperate attempt to sugar coat something. Keeping this in mind let me quote from The Cambridge History of India by Sir Richard Burn which is about as impartial a book you are going to get. He is not going to 'sex' up the Afghan side or the Mahratta side as he is impartial as opposed to the other loaded biased book you provided link to.

Using the above as referance I have coloured in red the (below) areas of Punjab to the east of Chenab River that fell under Maratha control in April 1758 and as you can see it only covers the easterly sliver of Pakistan. The Marathas held it exactly, yes exactly for 15 months or 420 days or 10,000 hours as they had their backsides kicked silly by Ahmad Shah Abdali by August 1759. Far from conquest and vanquish this was more like a "foray" and "contact" into what is now Pakistan.

And you want to build a entire philosophy on this 420 days? What did I say about "pushing the envelope"?

Quite convenient to simply ignore every other resource that does not corroborate your version of history. A frog in the well would have a broader perspective!

Nevertheless, give me a few days to come back to you on my response on the source you mentioned wrt. the Marathas. My access to the book is limited at the moment, so will remedy that.

And even without the Marathas, which was an example of the top of my head, did you forget the great Guptas and Mauryans who also were not from present day Pakistan but ruled large parts of Pakistan? Or do you have a convenient excuse to deny their existence?

 

[waz]

The Indus Valley was phenomenal and Ancient India was fantastic. I'm proud of both. Some will say they are the same, some will say otherwise.
As for genetics its around 50-60% of genes Pakistanis share with Indians and 40% with other races i.e. the Iranians, Central Asians etc. Professor Rosenberg's study is irrefutable proof of this.

 

[My-Analogous]

Is ancient India overrated ? A mindblowing analysis by Chinese Ex Professor from University of Toronto: Part 2

The first part of “Is ancient India overrated?” received overwhelming response. So I decided to write the second part of the article. It should be noted that India has so diverse culture and great history that how much ever I praise India, it is less. From medical science to space science, Indians are the pioneers. But sadly, they are underrated and considered as a nation which promotes superstitious practices.

Let us focus on the contributions towards mathematics and science by the Indians.

The idea of Zero

One of the biggest contribution of India to mathematics is the invention of ‘Zero’. The concept of Zero and its integration into the placevalue system also enabled one to write numbers, nomatter how large, by using only ten symbols.

The adoption of zero by Indian mathematics in the 7th century allowed the first use of negative numbers and decimal fractions. The credit goes to Aryabhata from India.

The Decimal System

Once again, India’s contribution to the field of mathematics cannot be sidelined. It was India, who gave the ingenious method expressing all numbers by means of ten symbols- the decimal system. Zero and the decimal system was invented by Hindus in India long before the the Arab invaders were even born. Arab barbarians learned about zero and the numerals from Hindus when they invaded India and then adopted it as their own.

Numeral notations

Indians, as early as 500 BCE, had devised a system of different symbols for every number from one to nine. This notation system was adopted by the Arabs who called it the hind numerals.

Centuries later, this notation system was adopted by the western world who called them the Arabic numerals as it reached them through the Arab traders.

Fibbonacci Numbers

The Fibonacci numbers and their sequence first appear in Indian mathematics as mātrāmeru, mentioned by Pingala in connection with the Sanskrit tradition of prosody. Later on, the methods for the formation of these numbers were given by mathematicians Virahanka, Gopala and Hemacandra , much before the Italian mathematician Fibonacci introduced the fascinating sequence to Western European mathematics.

Binary Numbers

Binary numbers is the basic language in which computer programs are written. Binary basically refers to a set of two numbers, 1 and 0, the combinations of which are called bits and bytes. The binary number system was first described by the Vedic scholar Pingala, in his book Chandahśāstra, which is the earliest known Sanskrit treatise on prosody ( the study of poetic metres and verse).

Chakravala method of Algorithms

The chakravala method is a cyclic algorithm to solve indeterminate quadratic equations, including the Pell’s equation. This method for obtaining integer solutions was developed by Brahmagupta, one of the well known mathematicians of the 7th century CE. Another mathematician, Jayadeva later generalized this method for a wider range of equations, which was further refined by Bhāskara II in his Bijaganitatreatise.

Ruler Measurements

Excavations at Harappans sites have yielded rulers or linear measures made from ivory and shell. Marked out in minute subdivisions with amazing accuracy, the calibrations correspond closely with the hasta increments of 1 3/8 inches, traditionally used in the ancient architecture of South India. Ancient bricks found at the excavation sites have dimensions that correspond to the units on these rulers.

Wootz Steel

A pioneering steel alloy matrix developed in India, Wootz steel is a crucible steel characterized by a pattern of bands that was known in the ancient world by many different names such as Ukku, Hindwani and Seric Iron. This steel was used to make the famed Damascus swords of yore that could cleave a free-falling silk scarf or a block of wood with the same ease. Produced by the Tamils of the Chera Dynasty, the finest steel of the ancient world was made by heating black magnetite ore in the presence of carbon in a sealed clay crucible kept inside a charcoal furnace.

Ayurveda

Long before the birth of Hippocrates, Charaka authored a foundational text, Charakasamhita, on the ancient science of Ayurveda. Referred to as the Father of Indian Medicine, Charaka was was the first physician to present the concept of digestion, metabolism and immunity in his book. Charaka’s ancient manual on preventive medicine remained a standard work on the subject for two millennia and was translated into many foreign languages, including Arabic and Latin.

Now comes to Civilization

Gateway At Harappa: Indus Valley Civilization

India’s urban civilization is traceable to Mohenjodaro and Harappa, now in Pakistan, where planned urban townships existed 5000 years before. From then onwards, the ancient Indian architecture and civil engineering continued to develop and grow. It found manifestation in construction of temples, palaces and forts across the Indian peninsula and the neighbouring regions. In ancient India, architecture and civil engineering was known as sthapatya-kala, literal translation of which means the art of constructing (something).

During the periods of Kushan Empire and Maurya empires, the Indian architecture and civil engineering reached to regions like Baluchistan and Afghanistan. Statues of Buddha were cut out, covering entire mountain faces and cliffs, like Buddhas of Bamiyan, Afghanistan. Over a period of time, ancient Indian art of construction blended with Greek styles and spread to Central Asia.

On the other side, Buddhism took Indian style of architecture and civil engineering to countries like Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Burma, China, Korea and Japan. Angkor Wat is a living testimony to the contribution of Indian civil engineering and architecture to the Cambodian Khmer heritage in the field of architecture and civil engineering.

In mainland India of today, there are several marvels of ancient India’s architectural heritage, including World heritage sites like Ajanta, Ellora, Khajuraho, Mahabodhi Temple, Sanchi, Brihadisvara Temple and Mahabalipuram.

A Brief Introduction to the Ancient Indus Civilization

The greater Indus region was home to the largest of the four ancient urban civilizations of Egypt, Mesopotamia, South Asia and China. It was not discovered until the 1920’s. Most of its ruins, even its major cities, remain to be excavated. The ancient Indus Civilization script has not been deciphered.

Many questions about the Indus people who created this highly complex culture remain unanswered, but other aspects of their society can be answered through various types of archaeological studies.

Harappa was a city in the Indus civilization that flourished around 2600 to 1700 B.C.E. in the western part of South Asia.

Cities and Context

The Harappans used the same size bricks and standardized weights as were used in other Indus cities such as Mohenjo Daro and Dholavira. These cities were well planned with wide streets, public and private wells, drains, bathing platforms and reservoirs. One of its most well-known structures is the Great Bath of Mohenjo Daro.

There were other highly developed cultures in adjacent regions of Baluchistan, Central Asia and peninsular India. Material culture and the skeletons from the Harappa cemetery and other sites testify to a continual intermingling of communities from both the west and the east. Harappa was settled before what we call the ancient Indus civilization flourished, and it remains a living town today.

Ghaggar-Hakra River

There may have been another large river that ran parallel to and east of the Indus at some time in the past. The northern part of its now usually dry bed is called “Ghaggar” in India and “Hakra” in Pakistan.

Meluhha

Ancient Mesopotamian texts speak of trading with at least two seafaring civilizations – Magan and Meluhha – in the neighborhood of South Asia in the third millennium B.C.E. This trade was conducted with real financial sophistication in amounts that could involve tons of copper.

HARP and Indian excavations

Since 1986, the joint Pakistani American Harappa Archaeological Research Project (HARP) has been carrying out the first major excavations at the site since before independence in 1946. These excavations have the shown Harappa to have been far larger than once thought, perhaps supporting a population of 50,000 at certain periods.

Is ancient India overrated ? A mindblowing analysis by Chinese Ex Professor from University of Toronto


Pak L. Huide

Dharm S

Well he is correct in case of Indus valley because Indus Valley is not Indian but Pakistani history and before 1947, no body knows India but they know Indus and Indians trying to steal our culture and heritage to prove the world that they are the builders and planners in 5000 bc but facts says the otherwise.