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because show India no longer think the airplane relevant and seeks future of its air-force some where else
you have become like sukhoi sale person .and only want to sale the outdated platform . if it was a good plane they would have built more sukhoi instead of ordering rafale .
answer it does anybody actually order flanker anymore
I dont know how many times people have to tell you this, but India, as well as others, did not stop procurement of Russian jets on technical grounds, it was PURELY POLITICAL!

ay kash Pikachu yedoone azoon chakaro mizad dare gooshet
 
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magnificent lock on Su-25 in high altitude from 77km away . really is that what you guys praising

I dont know how many times people have to tell you this, but India, as well as others, did not stop procurement of Russian jets on technical grounds, it was PURELY POLITICAL!
even china no longer buy the craps was it also a political decision , even russian airforce no longer order su-35 and if they get any will be those 24 that remain on their hand from Egypt sale.
how hard its to understand it failed against a modern fighter like rafale in all aspect as the design is based on philosophy belong to cold war era,and has not seen a meaningful upgrade as Russia air force still stuck in those era

stop being a salesman for sukhoi , if flanker is so fantastic why India didn't sent them against Pakistan F-16s and JF-17s
 
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Not the encryption we use on F-14AM or Kowsar.

Would the Russians allow Iranian engineers to mess with their top of the line fighter's electronics? Russian habits of not letting 4th generation planes be touched by clients suggest they won't. Otherwise, what is stopping IRIAF to get the same datalink they use on F-14AM, Kowsar or IRGC uses on their SU-22 to be put on MIG-29 9.12 fleet?

I'd like to see some kind of proof that these datalinks you talk about actually exist, because I'm not aware of any. Fun fact, one of the few features missing from Iran's F-14As at purchase was... the Link-4 datalink, which enabled seeing radar contacts from an AWACS aircraft *or* sharing radar data with other F-14s.

In any case, datalinks are most useful with AWACS aircraft which can see targets at much lower altitudes than ground-based radars. Iran doesn't have any AWACS, which is part of the reason why I think these Datalink systems you speak of don't exist.

In the scenario that Iran purchases Su-35s, it would be wise to also purchase A-50/100 AWACS aircraft to give them information. Btw, modern Russian export aircraft and systems use digital data buses that adhere to international standards, which means data could probably exchanged among Russian and Iranian systems. One example is India mating their own Astra AAM and Israel's I-Derby AAM to the Russian radar in their Su-30MKIs.
 
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even china no longer buy the craps was it also a political decision , even russian airforce no longer order su-35 and if they get any will be those 24 that remain on their hand from Egypt sale.
how hard its to understand it failed against a modern fighter like rafale in all aspect as the design is based on philosophy belong to cold war era,and has not seen a meaningful upgrade as Russia air force still stuck in those era

stop being a salesman for sukhoi , if flanker is so fantastic why India didn't sent them against Pakistan F-16s and JF-17s
Why would china buy new Su-35s when it is already a manufacturer of fighter jets as well as making knock off SU27s which it can modify to its own doctrine? Why would Russia buy more SU-35s when it has Su-57s on order?! Egypt didnt want them because they werent allowed to have them. I dont know why India didnt use them, maybe because theyre so good the Indians didnt want to endanger them over a border skirmish? I haven't ever come accross a direct military conflict involving Rafale vs Su-35, are these simulations? Because wars aren't fought in simulators.

Stop being a salesman for our enemies and their technology, gharbzade!
 
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Why would Russia buy more SU-35s when it has Su-57s on order?! Egypt didnt want them because they werent allowed to have them.
are you kidding me? you think how many su-57 Russia managed to produce since this day?
let make it easier for you , only 6 do you knew whats their production rate ? again let me make it easy for you
1-2 per year
ay kash Pikachu yedoone azoon chakaro mizad dare gooshet
good at least you knew who it is
Egypt didnt want them because they werent allowed to have them. I dont know why India didnt use them,
no because they were inferior to rafale , if it was for USA threat , be assured they would have bought F-16 not rafale . if you don't knew let me make one thing clear for you if usa could it would have dismantled any airplane produced by european , just like what they did with Canada, Japan or Israel or what they tried to do with Sweden .

I dont know why India didnt use them, maybe because theyre so good the Indians didnt want to endanger them over a border skirmish?
simply they were so bad they didn't trust them against F-16 or JF-17. honestly what sort of joke this argument of yours is?
I haven't ever come accross a direct military conflict involving Rafale vs Su-35, are these simulations? Because wars aren't fought in simulators.
simulation , not . evaluation yes.at least in case of egypt they pit two fighter in front of each other before make a decision . by the way the only countries that i knew made political decision not to buy from Russia are Philippine and Indonesia and guess from whom they bought replacement , yes uncle SAM not an European country

Literally hundreds of Buks and S-300s
fun fact there is no hundreds of BUKs and S-300 in Ukraine

the only thing i see is they put it outside the hanger in a remote place to dust. they made promise about it but never shown any advancement after that taxi test, after the showman (ahmadi-nejad) they said Qaher is just a test bed for produing next generation airplane sub system not final product as in its current form it only can have a very narrow mission definition
 
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are you kidding me? you think how many su-57 Russia managed to produce since this day?
let make it easier for you , only 6 do you knew whats their production rate ? again let me make it easy for you

Stop spreading lies, you are ruining any remaining credibility you once had. They built 16. 10 are test variants that can fly sorties if absolutely needed. It’s funny you count those test planes for project Kowsar and ignore them for SU-57 project.

SU-57 is an ongoing project testing new modifications to the plane or avionics that you call “garbage”. But routinely praise Iranian electronics that have zero stats provided outside of one or two pictures of the actual product.

If you bothered even looking up the project you will realize they have moved to a new variant SU-57M. They are testing that variant before they reach a final mass production variant.

The SU-57 is an ever evolving project. US showed what happens when you rush a fighter jet too soon to market (F-22) and end up with outdated electronics after mass production and no “enemies” to use it on.

Unlike China, Russia doesn’t need to rush 5th Gen fighter to the frontlines. 5th Gen VLO fighters are not major part of a over arching Russo-Soviet Military doctrine. Wether that is right or wrong is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Your logic is all over the place. You chastise the SU-57 production rate. And yet in other posts earlier you say that Iran should go after SU-75 when it’s not even close to a production prototype.

Between that and flip flopping talking about going after Chinese planes. You are just throwing spaghetti at the wall and opening something sticks.
 
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Stop spreading lies, you are ruining any remaining credibility you once had. They built 16. 10 are test variants that can fly sorties if absolutely needed. It’s funny you count those test planes for project Kowsar and ignore them for SU-57 project.
the point is from those 16 airplane 10 are prototype and only 6 serially produced . by the way don't you think you mistaking me with somebody else , can't recall i ever mentioned any thing about the number of produced kowsars
SU-57 is an ongoing project testing new modifications to the plane or avionics that you call “garbage”. But routinely praise Iranian electronics that have zero stats provided outside of one or two pictures of the actual product.
well you want me to talk about su-57 , OK since now I have been talking about flankers but as you want to talk about
SU-57 ok. flankers subsystem outside its AL-41 engine and Infrared system are outdated about SU-57 they have modernized the systems but they lack the ability to produce those modernized system . thats why they had to cancel AESA radar on Mig-35 and use those produced radars in su-57 and only manage to produce 1-2 airplane / year . their rate of producing SU-57 can be compared by our rate of producing kowsar . both Iran and Russia need to invest more in this regard if they want it to fruit.
If you bothered even looking up the project you will realize they have moved to a new variant SU-57M. They are testing that variant before they reach a final mass production variant.
nice try , su-57m is not even a flying prototype , they not even completely roughed out all aspect of its engine , so you must wait to see a flying version of it and by the pace they are walking,......
The SU-57 is an ever evolving project. US showed what happens when you rush a fighter jet too soon to market (F-22) and end up with outdated electronics after mass production and no “enemies” to use it on.
that outdated airplane even today have best stealth features and best Radar.
yes its not electronically advance as F-35 but in those two regard will surpass it
Unlike China, Russia doesn’t need to rush 5th Gen fighter to the frontlines. 5th Gen VLO fighters are not major part of a over arching Russo-Soviet Military doctrine. Wether that is right or wrong is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
The problem is outside those 6 SU-57 russia don't have a fighter with AESA radar to show
Your logic is all over the place. You chastise the SU-57 production rate. And yet in other posts earlier you say that Iran should go after SU-75 when it’s not even close to a production prototype.
nonsense , why you don't read my posts correctly , i Chastise Su-35 not Su-57 , I have doubt on the Russia ability to mass produce it , i never made a post about Su-57 capabilities.
and go read my post about Su-75 again and try to see the context it was made and understand what i meant by it.
Between that and flip flopping talking about going after Chinese planes. You are just throwing spaghetti at the wall and opening something sticks.
did i say we go after chinese airplanes . no again you missunderstood me. those post was to show russian airplane fanboys that if they want to get foreign airplanes there are othewr providers whio produce better airplanes and there are airplanes out there that are cheaper , have at least the same performance in a fight against flanker and are easier and cheaper to maintain and come with better weapons
 
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are you kidding me? you think how many su-57 Russia managed to produce since this day?
let make it easier for you , only 6 do you knew whats their production rate ? again let me make it easy for you
1-2 per year
Who cares, they have enough Su-35, 30 27s and Migs that they dont need to invest in more su-35s. None of that proves that the su-35 or su-57 is poor, rather Russia doesnt have the same funds as say US. You cant pull the wool over my eyes.

good at least you knew who it is

I live in the west so obviously I know who Pikachu is, vali moondam toee ke az posht e fil oftadee chejoori midooni, tavajo kardee?

no because they were inferior to rafale , if it was for USA threat , be assured they would have bought F-16 not rafale . if you don't knew let me make one thing clear for you if usa could it would have dismantled any airplane produced by european , just like what they did with Canada, Japan or Israel or what they tried to do with Sweden .

Why would US jeaprodise relations with Egypt and France by making restrictions amongst allies? Yes buying Russian planes is not allowed, but purchase of WESTERN planes are allowed since it's inkeeping with the rules of free trade. Not because rafale is better or any other khialbaf excuse you may have.

simply they were so bad they didn't trust them against F-16 or JF-17. honestly what sort of joke this argument of yours is?


Why would egypt pay triple the money for something that is no way 3 times as better as Su-35, other than as a result of western pressure? Western planes are inflated in price without doubt.

simulation , not . evaluation yes.at least in case of egypt they pit two fighter in front of each other before make a decision .

Lol so your data isnt even a simulation. Just an "evaluation"...by who? Biased pro-western youtubers, or actual independent academic research?

by the way the only countries that i knew made political decision not to buy from Russia are Philippine and Indonesia and guess from whom they bought replacement , yes uncle SAM not an European country

Omg well yeah, when the only choices allowed are European or American then obviously American is the one to choose! Kheyli torki! That doesnt mean Russian system is necessarily inferior to their doctrine, especially considering how cost effective it would have been for those countries. Purely political and they were forced to buy from western countries.

the only thing i see is they put it outside the hanger in a remote place to dust. they made promise about it but never shown any advancement after that taxi test, after the showman (ahmadi-nejad) they said Qaher is just a test bed for produing next generation airplane sub system not final product as in its current form it only can have a very narrow mission definition

Yes the propaganda regarding the Qaher was a little embarrassing, but Iran was under threat of regime change back in Ahmadinejads time, so they had to chest beat and resort to gondegoozi. However, one minute you demand Iran produces indegenously, then the next minute you are mocking all of Iran's attempt at trying to bring this into fruition. Like I said, cant win with you unless Iran becomes a vassal state...which will never happen again, by Allah!
 
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Why would US jeaprodise relations with Egypt and France by making restrictions amongst allies? Yes buying Russian planes is not allowed, but purchase of WESTERN planes are allowed since it's inkeeping with the rules of free trade. Not because rafale is better or any other khialbaf excuse you may have.
Interestingly they don't have much problem doing so in submarine deal with Australia.
They don't need to ban that they just need to make some mentions behind the closed door that it's better to buy F16 instead of rafale

Why would egypt pay triple the money for something that is no way 3 times as better as Su-35, other than as a result of western pressure? Western planes are inflated in price without doubt.
Even 50 percent better mean your airplanes can do shit against it.

Lol so your data isnt even a simulation. Just an "evaluation"...by who? Biased pro-western youtubers, or actual independent academic research?
Biassed Egyptian army. Wonder who gave you the idea that a YouTuber can evaluate any airplane

Omg well yeah, when the only choices allowed are European or American then obviously American is the one to choose! Kheyli torki! That doesnt mean Russian system is necessarily inferior to their doctrine, especially considering how cost effective it would have been for those countries. Purely political and they were forced to buy from western countries
As I said those two countries did it for political reason.
India stopped ordering it without any outside pressure as they were made in India and Egypt decided not to buy them after evaluation.

Yes the propaganda regarding the Qaher was a little embarrassing, but Iran was under threat of regime change back in Ahmadinejads time, so they had to cheat beat and resort to gondegoozi. However, one minute you demand Iran produces indegenously, then the next minute you are mocking all of Iran's attempt at trying to bring this into fruition. Like I said, cant win with you unless Iran becomes a vassal state...which will never happen again, by Allah!
Nobody was afraid those nonsense like Hamaseh drone or how they presented qaher. For God sake they had to connect it to power line to turn on the Lights. And instead a communication system they put a car record player there. Perhaps for the pilot to listen to 🎶
I demand to produce indegenously not be a showman. Ahmadinejad was our version of zelensky by the way I don't knew who is worse
 
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Interestingly they don't have much problem doing so in submarine deal with Australia.
They don't need to ban that they just need to make some mentions behind the closed door that it's better to buy F16 instead of rafale

Well US is a better submarine maker than Europe. Still dont see why would US ban an ally from purchasing from abother ally? Yes from time to time US does back stab allies or try to aggressively sell their products, but ultimately Australia could have stuck by French submarines and nothing would have happened. You are clearly an infant when it comes to politics...best stick to technical reasoning to avoid looking like a fool.

Even 50 percent better mean your airplanes can do shit against it.


Biassed Egyptian army. Wonder who gave you the idea that a YouTuber can evaluate any airplane


As I said those two countries did it for political reason.
India stopped ordering it without any outside pressure as they were made in India and Egypt decided not to buy them after evaluation.


Nobody was afraid those nonsense like Hamaseh drone or how they presented qaher. For God sake they had to connect it to power line to turn on the Lights. And instead a communication system they put a car record player there. Perhaps for the pilot to listen to 🎶
I demand to produce indegenously not be a showman. Ahmadinejad was our version of zelensky by the way I don't knew who is worse

Well considering we have little data on Su-35 vs F16 combat you can't make that claim. So why is it that when Iran wants to buy a better more expensive plane, like su-35, it's bad. But when Egypt opts for something better, despite the price tag, it is a great bit of business. One only needs to deduce that the only thing bothering you is why Iran isnt buying western junk instead of Russian, but there is little to no technical justification.

Why can't a youtuber give an evaluation? Im just saying that a simulation would be a better data to go by than an biased evaluation. When US forcing the Egyptians to be biased, what choice do they have?

India has couple hundreds of su-30s already in their inventory. They dont need more, maybe that's why but seeing as they are part of the new anti-China alliance, i am certain it was a political decision to move to western planes. Also they have only a small number of rafale because they are overpriced.

Why are you living in the past and bringing up Ahmadinejad and Qaher. Politics is all about show and making yourself bigger than you are. Eitherway, Iran was trying to showcase their ability at making prototypes and have the desire to think big. It was to demonstrate that they are not like the Arabs and Afghanis who rely on hand outs or live in caves. You took it too literally and only saw the bad in what he was trying to do...this is a sort of Iransetizi.
 
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It is nice to see that after getting massacred over your failed attempt to pass simulated RCS (without relative factor) as Real RCS, you now seem to have shutup about it now like many times you have chosen to do the same when countered with fact. Now remember the lesson learned:

- Do not quote scientists for things they do not claim in their papers (Brazilians never claimed simulation values = real values)
- Never try to pass simulation values as real values without relative factors
- Read the source before posting something because people will catch you pants down spreading misinfo.

Which F-18 are you referring to? They have different RCSs depending on which version or Block.

You truly believe size is everything when it comes to RCS? With such logic the RQ-170 has a smaller RCS than B-2 since they are both flying wing designs but one is smaller. Yet in flying wing design the smaller the design the HIGHER probability of the the RCS increasing due to less surface area for radar to be scattered or absorbed vs reflected.

Size does play a role not to say there is NO ROLE, but shape and design plays a much bigger role if not majority. Hence why the Zumwalt destroyer has the RCS of a small fishing boat despite being the size of a mammoth destroyer.

Another point using your own F-18 example

f18comp.gif


Guess which version has the lower RCS? Shocker the F-18E. Guess which version of F-18E has the lowest RCS of any F-18? Block III also know as the stealthy F-18 being marketed around the world currently to friendly western countries looking to avoid the expensive F-35 while staying in the US military aerospace ecosystem .

But according to you smaller = lower RCS is more important factor. Not actually the surface/shape/design of the aircraft and how it respondes to radar waves in your expensive radar rooms.

Your logic is imbecile like always (I provided the list of absurd claims from you, it is growing).

When we are comparing two airframes and no RAM are involved, the smaller and less edgy airframe => has low RCS if the basic shape of the airframe is related. F-18 and F-5 are all from the same family of airframes called N-156 from which came the T-38, F-5E/F, YF-17, F/A-18, F/A-18EF/G, Saeqeh-I/II, Kowsar, F-20, and FCK-1. The relationship between RCS and size without RAM sustains if the basic airframe design is related. Can we say that about your BS analogy of Zumwalt and a boat? If USN claimed F/A-18 to stand at 1-3 m2 then please explain how come the smaller version of it, the N-156 with fewer edges and smaller air-intakes becomes 16 m2 like you have been parading about for a week now.

Even if I assume that F-5 airframe has higher RCS that F-18 which is claimed to be 1.2 m2 (F/A-18CD) then is it even possible that it will be 16 m2 ?

RCS on F-5 from the lateral and rear is quite large and in an pseudo air defense role enemy radars would be be bombarded from various sources
You have claimed that F-5E/F has a real RCS of 15-16 m2 without any remote evidence of F-5 airframe ever been tested for F-5. You tried to pass the simulated values as real ones, I bet you did not even know someone will notice, but someone did :sarcastic:. In your quest to be right, you may have googled "F-5 RCS", the first paper showed up and you decided to post it as "Real RCS of F-5" here without even reading the abstract. Reality: You got caught pants down trying to pass simulated RCS as real RCS which even the authors are not claiming in their paper! Two crimes, lying and misquoting the authors!

And yet many (if not majority) of online sources say RCS of SU-35 is 1-3M2. If you don’t believe me, simply search for yourself.

Provide us the source which says SU-35 has 1-3m2 RCS? Dont try to run away from your claim by saying "sEaRcH YoUrSelF". You know there is no actual literary source which is why you are saying this.

The fact remains, SU-35 = SU-27M ... literally the same airframe with an avionics upgrade. Except for mild verticle stabilizer modification, the entire SU-35 is just a re-marketed SU-27M which flew some 35 years ago (first flight 1987). They tested canards and reverted them back to the non-canard design of SU-27.

So if nothing changes in the airframe of SU-27 to become SU-35 except for an avionics upgrade. How come SU-27's 10-15 m2 RCS turned 1-3 m2 suddenly? I have yet to see any official claim for this 1-3 m2 anyways. Some Sukhoi paper or from some RuAF official, but no one has said that except for a few internet fanbois. Sukhoi renamed a fighter from 47 years ago (SU-27 first flight) because of an avionics upgrade and you here started claiming it has got reduced RCS by 12 m2?

1659777606289.png


Literally, this is your logic:

The plane on left, SU-27 has a RCS of 10-15m2 (company patented) and the right one, SU-35 has an RCS of 1-3 m2???? They do not even have an inch of difference.

1659778660904.png
1659778727394.png


While the planes on right and left have RCS in 1-3 m2 range but the middle one somehow has the RCS of 16 m2 because simulated RCS without relative factor for real RCS said so? :cheesy:

1659778924903.png
1659779369499.png
1659779155427.png



SU-35 carries the hypersonic R-37 BVR with max range of ~ 400KM also carries R-77M with ~200KM and R-27 130-170KM

But who cares about that right? I forgot super duper top secret data links are only for the F-14AM or Kowsar. SU-35 is too old and outdated to possibly be able to communicate with other sources of radar. Which even @AmirPatriot who rarely posts here anymore had a urge to rebuke.

R-37 is not part of any SU-35 export deal. I would expect only a fool like you to believe that Russia will provide their golden weapon R-37 to anyone let alone a politically dangerous client like Iran. Same Russia that resisted to provide or did not at all to Iran with following:

- Signed/ordered MIG-29 9.13
- R-77
- RD-33
- S-300

.... will somehow provide Iran with its deep killer R-37? Let along R-37 which is an exclusive thing for RuAF, they will not even share 40 years old now obsolete R-33 with anyone during their money-for-anything poverty days. Among the R-77 family, only R-77-1 is for export with ~100 km range which Iran may get with SU-35 if it ever lands in Iran for billions of USD. R-77M is again an exclusive weapon for SU-57. If you want to talk about SU-35 with BVR package in Iranian hands consider it with R-77-1 at best and nothing else. Even the R-77T is not exported. Why do you think China had to resort to development of PL-12 in late 90s ?

And Yes Flanker (SU-27/30/33/35) has

- High RCS, 10-15 m2 admitted by Sukhoi.
- IRBIS-E tracks a modern fighter at 100 km range
- Extremely high price of 85 Million USD.


This is the Detection range by "Claim of the manufacturer". Reverse search the image and you will find that even the quotation below it is saying the same. Not even the manufacturer is claiming it as a tracking range (I am hoping you know the difference). To analyze the actual performance of IRBIS-E there is nothing better than their manufacturer's officially released video which shows the ~250 km away detected target, only to be tracked at barely 100 KM. It tells us that SU-35 with IRBIS-E at best can serve as a Mini-AWACS like F-14A using its radar for search/detection. While F-14AM in IRIAF can fire Fakour-90 or AIM-54 at the target from 150+ km away the SU-35S will have to wait for ~100 km to get a lock with R-77-1. Such a massive advantage it is providing at only 85 million USD per piece.


The paper looks at what ramifications of adding to RAM to an F-5 body aircraft would do in regards to reduction of RCS. The results are quite clear and the paper makes a definitive conclusion that may have flown over your head, so read again.

Just answer troll, Where did the authors say the simulated RCS is real? NOWHERE THE AUTHORS ARE MENTIONING THAT THE SIMULATED RCS THEY MEASURED IS EQUAL REAL RCS. So please provide us the justification for your 10 days of constant lying and misquoting the authors, trying to pass simulated RCS without relative factor to real RCS, as a real RCS value.

Here is a list of your failures:

- Software Simulated RCS =/= Real RCS. No simulation in the entire world of science can ever be equated to real-world values without relative factor Z which needs to be x or + or - from the simulated RCS to make it equal to the actual lab tested value. We dont know that because the paper was not about that.

- Even the authors in your "trophy" paper you posted, are nowhere claiming that their simulated RCS = Real RCS. They are not doing it because they are scientists. While you being a troll are constantly misqouting their hard work they put in the paper. Scientists hate being misquoted but you are committing the crime of using them to support your lie.

- Actual RCS is measured by multimillion USD facilities, not on freeware software by actual professional scientists, who according to your stupid logic are just fools wasting their years of lives, millions of USD on lab work. They can just download freeware and design the next generation of F-22 from their bedrooms.

- US aviators themselves are claiming that their F-5N is hard to track/observe even from an F-18E of F-35. Would they say it about an airframe that you are claiming to be having an RCS of 16 m2?

- F-5E/F during the war has never been shot by a BVR missile. MIG-25PD and MIG-23ML shot F-4E and F-14A with R-40, and R-23 BVR missiles but failed to track "16 m2 F-5". Iraqi MIG-25PD later had to wait till 30 KM to get a lock on US F/A-18. N-156 family has small RCS no matter which member we take.

Yes, a simulation has a margin of error that cannot be matched perfectly with a radar room worth millions or tens of millions of dollars. But with such logic, simulations in academia/medical field/science field/etc should never be conducted because they cannot hope to compete with ultra expensive real world data gathering. Which again is propostreous conclusion. Many discoveries were first discovered via simulations that quite accurately predicted the final result within the margin of error. Simulations exist to get very close to real life data gathering in the absence of using such expensive methods.

More BS from a nontechnical troll. Where did I say that simulations are not to be conducted? I guess you are not even mentally capable of handling technical discussions.

This is my post before, now tell me where did I say simulations are not to be conducted?

Relative factors between simulations and experimental values work like this in the entire plethora of scientific fields where both simulated and experimental measurements are possible. We first measure values in a simulated environment over a range, then we find them experimentally to get this relative factor "Z" so next time we can get a good idea from the simulation of what the actual values would be. No one gets the simulation done only and starts claiming oh that is it, I won't take it to the lab. Which is why in modern world we have a theoretical physicist, biologist, chemist and an experimental physicist, biologist, chemist. They work in tandem on projects, and can't replace each other.

Simulations are done before actual experimentations. They are not substitutive ways of measurement but one leads to the other. They are done in sequences and are related to each other through relative factors between simulations and experimental values. We first measure values in a simulated environment over a range, then we find them experimentally to get this relative factor "Z" so next time we can get a good idea from the simulation of what the actual values would be. This is how projects are created and they win millions of USD in grant money from scientists.

Simulations values =/= Real world values
Simulations with relative factor Z = Real World values

And btw, If you say BS like "Simulation has error" you will get bitchslapped by its makers/users. Error in a plot is the deviation of slope from the origin point, compared to another plot where deviation does not happen from the same origin point. Both cases have the same origin point, if two particles A and B go from Point 1 to Point 2, and particle B by the end of their journey has deviated from the path by 5 degrees then we have an "error in the flight path of particle B compared to A" because the origin point 1 was same for both particles A and B. In the case of simulation vs real-world values, the origin points are different because the measurements have VASTLY different origin points. Radar oscillators throwing EMR at an airframe in an actual world inside a multi-million USD lab can have some 50 factors that affect the resultant values. Simulations do not even address all these factors.

ERROR =/= Relative factor

So now the software is “bogus” according to you. Good to know.

Quite hilarious you talk about Iranians being arrogant and ignorant and love to argue. Yet conveniently miss your own behavior in all this.

Like I said your biases toward the F-5 project just completely blind you to considering alternatives. Doesn’t look like Iran has the same enthusiasm as you with regards to the project.

Software values are bogus unless we have actual real-world values to compare. You can parade around naked with a poster above your head saying I found the RCS of F-5 from a paper as 15-16 m2, but it won't change the fact that

- You lied to us here and tried to pass simulated values as real ones
- You misquoted the authors for things they did not even claim.

and btw 70 % of my posts roughly amount to missiles, in the IRIAF section I mostly talk about avionics, armaments, and radars, but thanks for following me around.
 
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Well considering we have little data on Su-35 vs F16 combat you can't make that claim. So why is it that when Iran wants to buy a better more expensive plane, like su-35, it's bad. But when Egypt opts for something better, despite the price tag, it is a great bit of business. One only needs to deduce that the only thing bothering you is why Iran isnt buying western junk instead of Russian, but there is little to no technical justification.
We say it's male, you say milk it :crazy:.
Let bring one other reason more than the fact that SU-35 is inferior. Egypt don't have a domestic aircraft program, Iran has one.

Why can't a youtuber give an evaluation? Im just saying that a simulation would be a better data to go by than an biased evaluation. When US forcing the Egyptians to be biased, what choice do they have?
Because when you evaluate an airplane, you actually fly it and pit it against the competitor. I'm not aware of any YouTube who can do that. Just like when Iran choose F14 over F15

India has couple hundreds of su-30s already in their inventory. They dont need more, maybe that's why but seeing as they are part of the new anti-China alliance, i am certain it was a political decision to move to western planes. Also they have only a small number of rafale because they are overpriced.
They needed eleven to replace the ones that lost. They canceled order after they saw rafale capabilities.
By the way India from cold War Era was part of the front against China. It's not something new.

Why are you living in the past and bringing up Ahmadinejad and Qaher. Politics is all about show and making yourself bigger than you are. Eitherway, Iran was trying to showcase their ability at making prototypes and have the desire to think big. It was to demonstrate that they are not like the Arabs and Afghanis who rely on hand outs or live in caves. You took it too literally and only saw the bad in what he was trying to do...this is a sort of Iransetizi.
I didn't bring up those Era somebody else did and I answered it and do you really believe anybody beside some fanboy took those things serious. If anything they showed Iran don't have anything credible.
 
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Hypothetical scenario 1:

IRIAF takes 24 X SU-35S from Russia at 85 million USD/piece. They will come for atleast 4 billion USD including the infrastructure. After spending this 4 Billion USD, by 2030 this will be an operational interception IRIAF fleet:

- 24 x SU-35S
- 20-22 x F-14A/AM. Rest will be grounded and cannibalized
- 30 Kowsar-I and ~1-2 Prototypes of Kowsar- II
- 8-10 x MIG-29 9.12. The rest fleet will be grounded without MLU. Severely obsolete avionics.

If IRIAF puts a further 4 billion USD by 2026 and abandons the Kowsar/Saeghe program, MIG Fleet dies a MLU-less obsolete death

for 8 Billion USD by 2030:

- 72 x SU-35S
- 20-22 x F-14A/AM. Rest will be grounded and cannablised

OR

Hypothetical scenario 2:

IRIAF spends same 4 billion USD on following:

1) 400 x ARH R-77-1
2) 400 x R-74
3) 200 x R-33MK Turbofans (with TOT)
4) 50 x MIG-29M and IRIAF MIG-29 fleet gets MLUed and upgraded

By 2030, this will be the IRIAF fleet for the interception

- 44 x F-14AM (Weapons: Fakour-90, Maghsoud with ARH upto 200 km)
- 73 x MIG-29M2 (R-77-1, R-74)
- 100 x Kowsar- I/II (AESA radar, e-warfare, multiaxis FBW, R-33M Turbofan, R-77-1, HMD-R74)
 
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